pzhoward

Hey guys. Wondering if anyone can help me out. I took a trip this weekend and drove about 200 miles on the interstate. Just as I was getting off my exit, I noticed the TCS light was on. I drove for about another 20 miles thru town to my destination. Once there, I turned the car off and then back on to see what the TCS light would do. As normal, it comes on for a second or two and then goes out. However, on my way back home it came back on but not until I got on the interstate and stayed on the whole way home. The only service I have recently had on this car was the driver's side cv axle/boot replaced about 2 months ago. This is a 99 TL 3.2 with about 150K miles on it. Never had any issues before with the TCS light until now. Is it safe to drive like that? I use the interstate quite a bit.

Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks.

fsttyms1

Yes its safe to drive. That light could mean MANY things.It often comes on for regular trouble code things as well (like EGR related codes) Only way to know is to bring it in and have the codes read. Has the CEL light come on at all?

pzhoward

Yes, the CEL light is on. I've gotten to where I ignore the CEL light. I took it to Autozone a while back to have the code pulled but cannot remember what it came back as (something to do with fuel?). I've been riding around with the CEL light on forever. Do they use the same tool to read the TCS as they do for the CEL?

smartypants

Tcs = cel

01tl4tl

get to a parts store for free code read--report back codes here

fsttyms1

Well this is HALF your problem. The Check Engine Light is NOT a dummy light. When they come on they mean there is a problem.

GO get the code read again. Let us know what it is. Odds are the 2 lights are due to the same problem. (im guessing a p0401)

pzhoward

I stopped by Autozone and had the CEL light read. At the time, the TCS light was not on. The reading came back as P0420 - catalyst efficiency below threshold bank 1. On the way home, the TCS light came on so I turned around and went back to have it read again. On the way back, I noticed a very slight hesitation in the shifting of gears in the automatic transmission. The second reading, with the TCS light on came back P0740. Also, I have noticed that the maint req light is flashing (10 times) ) when I start the car. Normally, it will come on and not go thru the flashing series but rather just go off almost immediately. I reset the maint req light. Something else to factor in (coz I'm guessing this is probably a dreaded transmission issue) is that for as long as I have had this car...8 - 10 years maybe... is that I have never had the transmission serviced. I recently added a quart of transmission oil about 2 months ago b/c twice I have went to pull away from a complete stop and it felt like the car wasn't going anywhere and then all of a sudden the transmission kicked in. This made me check the oil level and it was pretty low if not empty. During these episodes, the TCS light wasn't an issue. Having said all this, go ahead and feel free to set me straight. I know I've got it coming but please tell me I'm not completely screwed.

01tl4tl

a quart of oil- without cking the end result?
what oil did you use? dextron 3,,, or honda atf?

ck fluid level per book- from cold- drive 15 minutes on freeway - get off freeway and immedialty stop on safe level parking area
trans in Park, turn engine OFF
remove trans dipstick and wipe clean
Insert fully -remove and read
should be BETWEEN THE 2 UPPER DOTS
not at top mark, not at lower--in between

01tl4tl

the mait req light is simply the oil change reminder that works on miles since last reset
starts about 6500 miles
It gets more insistant with the flashing at about 7000 and goes on solid and stays on at 7500

pzhoward

I used honda atf. I checked the level this afternoon when the readings were being done however, the car had been running for quite some time - not 15 minutes after a cold start like you suggest and it was on a very slight incline (parked in front of Autozone) and the car was running - not turned off. Sighs, anyway, the level was beyond the 2nd dot. I'll do a more thorough level check in the morning.

01tl4tl

well then,, that reading was worthless

sitting running means nothing for trans temp-
driving at cruise speed heats the fluid to the certain point and dots are based on that temp
level is mandatory as a slight incline may be a pint on the stick
1 Qt is a LOT of fluid to add to any auto trans- the TL only holds 7.3 total

Driving stop and go in town will heat the fluid too much and cause incorrect read
same with cold-false read

pzhoward

Does the PCM unit have to be replaced with a rebuilt/replaced transmission? Price I was quoted ($1600) includes tranny and torque but not pcm.

01tl4tl

only certain VIN numbers need it

pzhoward

How do I confirm whether or not mine needs it?

piggylover1985

Most likely not.

01tl4tl

ask the service or parts manager at dealer to ck your vin

totaledTL

Who quoted that price? Sounds pretty good.

01tl4tl

the old lowball quote~
get the job in the shop and trans dismantled-
only then can you actually see what parts will be replaced- then you call customer with the bad news- all these clutch disc are destroyed!!!
that'll be another 800 dollars please

ask how many TL trans they have done in the last year- that tech still work there?
The service Manager should know the total price on average for your type car
if they really have done several

can/will they provide customer referances/contact info with TL-s they repaired trans on?
Call the referances -see what total price was and how its running
Dont care how well other cars they did are- TL trans is picky about its assembly

pzhoward

AAA-1 Transmission in Tallahassee, FL. Owner is Doug Walker. They were referred to me by my regular mechanic (whom I trust completely). They are also highly recommending that I go ahead and address the P0420 issue and replace the exaust converter which would be an additional 400.00. I'm curious if the P0420 played a role (however minor) in the transmission issue since I've pretty much ignored the P0420 code for well over a year?

01tl4tl

exhaust convertor? you mean the CAT?
go to excelerate- one of our vendors/sponsors
he has 3 levels of performance cats, all for less than 400 - and starting near 100 iirc-

Let a muffler shop test it- they know how- its painless

clean your EGR ports in the intake manifold- its due for that and causes funky running and false codes
remember- codes are nothing but CLUES--need to put together the clues for a diagnosis

01tl4tl

your guy knows this place as good for trans in general- or has sent TL customers there?

Did you ask the questions I listed in post above?

if they dont do these much or you really are their first,,,

01tl4tl

you got 150,000 miles out of an original 99 trans, and cv axle!
thats pretty good from any perspective

how long did you get from the timing belt?

pzhoward

Too tired to type everything I want to say and I have soooo many questions. Is there another way we can talk?

pzhoward

Ok, here goes. I went to the tranny shop yesterday morning. While they were test driving it the TCS light came on. The guy said he could feel a difference in the way the gears were shifting after the TCS light came on. They did their own computer diagnostic scan and it came back with the same codes that I got at Autozone (P0420 and P0740). They are convinced that b/c of the 0740 code that I need a transmission overhaul and replace the torque converter. I asked them about a possible speed sensor issue or solenoid issue and a few other possibilities and they said that if it was any of those other things it would could back with a code for that. The guy also brought up the issue of the P0420 code. He wants to go ahead and replace the CAT as well (he calls it an exhaust converter). He thinks that the issues might be related and well, yes.... I have been driving around with a P0420 code for well over a year. However, before I go replacing the CAT - how do I know it's the CAT and not an O2 sensor? And if you're going to replace the CAT, shouldn't the O2 sensor be replaced at the same time? Next question... should the CAT and/or O2 sensor be OEM or does it matter? Anyway, moving on. The guy reset the computer and I left with a 1600.00 estimate for the tranny and another 400.00 for the CAT aka exhaust converter. My mechanic suggested I call Mighty Muffler regarding the CAT and the muffler dude asked me to come by to take a look at the car. Muffler dude didn't seem too convinced over the phone that I needed a CAT but did quote me $280.00 for the one " he would use " which included installation. Went by to see the muffler guy and when he hooked up his computer scanner all that came back was the P0740 code. We suspect the P0420 code wasn't showing b/c everything was reset earlier that morning. The p0740 code came on even with out the TCS light on. It appears so far, that the only time the tranny feels funny is when the TCS light is on. When it's just the CEL light on, the car runs fine. So anyway, the muffler guy didn't do anything else... no tests on the CAT, no test on the O2.... and I'm not sure if that was b/c the car wasn't registering a code or what. Instead, he suggested for $100.00 he would do a thorough fuel injection cleaning. Hmmm. So this is my plan of action and tell me if you agree: A) i will get a second opinion on the tranny. B) the P0420 code is on the back burner. Instead, I will clean the EGR ports and the intake manifold myself and maybe even replace the O2 sensor if it's easy enough to do myself. Instructions for this would be immensely appreciated! C) I figure either way, with 150K miles chances are the tranny needs an overhaul. I do not want to wait until the tranny is trashed and have to spend more to fix hard parts. I would rather spend 1600.00 now rather than 2500.00 or more later on.

01tl4tl

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/new-official-2nd-gen-tl-diy-thread-706083/
Our DIY thread list for you!

erg port cleaning is easy with basic hand tools, 3 cans of carb cleaner and a wire coat hanger or similar wire rod for poking thru the channels
its a possible cause of code and poor running/mileage

No need for an O2 sensor yet- there is an electrical test you can run on it
If needed, use Denso - plug and play as its the OE brand.. from parts stores

you wont hurt hard parts in the trans- the clutch disc are probably headed for the dumpster- leaving behind a large amount of particles--those get sucked up into the internal screens in the trans and plug the oil flow,,makes hard shifting- throws code from line pressure being wrong or who knows why it does- as codes are only clues~

If it needs a cat- get one from our sponsoring vendor Excelerate--www.excelerateperformance.com or in the Sponsored Sales thread of Black Market section...way better part for less money
Muffler shop will install for cheap,,, but if they were not concerned about it now- its probably ok--do the egr ports first Exhaust Gas Recirculation--pumps exhaust gas back into intake manifold and sent to each cylinder for reburning
The TL has a worse then normal problem with buildup- I blame E10 gas
it needs the ports cleaned every 75kmiles per our megamoderator with 350kmiles and rising on his 00

pzhoward

99 EGR port cleaning
http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/B00-004.PDF

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ACK!

fsttyms1

FIxed the link Click on the one above and it will bring it up.

pzhoward

Thank you!

piggylover1985

Depending on how bad/plugged Cat is, my experience was after cleared the code i think it was 421&431 Cat efficiency below threshold bank 1 and 2 on my 01 Mazda Millenia, They wont come back for a round 100 miles or so. But if you hook a scanner and go into data stream, looking at the O2 sensor after the Cat, you will see that the voltage fluctuated up and down, that means it no good. Should be stable voltage. The front one will always fluctuate and that's ok. Anyways the 2 precat for the Mazda built into the manifolds and cost around $1,000 not including labor. So to save money i tricked the computer so it won't set code for bad/plug cat even after i clean out the Cats. Good thing with Honda/Acura is they only have 1 main cat and no pre cats, the main cat is much cheaper.
They recommend they the O2 sensor to be replace with the cat.
Usually with code PO740 the transmission will need to get an overhaul. Bad news because it will only get worse from time.

01tl4tl

but the muffler shop didnt feel it even needed cat testing- it was ok

while the trans shop wanted one based only on a code~

pzhoward

Well... i'm taking the car in next week for the tranny overhaul. Wish me luck! Any thanks to everyone (esp. 01tl4tl) for all of your feedback and advice. I'll post again to let you know how the surgery went. Take care! Pam

01tl4tl

so going with what shop? basic estimate is? and expected increase when they find out it needs everything?- same as they all do~

pzhoward

I haven't gotten the 2nd opinion yet but most likely I'll go to the guy I've already been hounding with a thousand questions (not kidding bout the thousand questions part) unless the 2nd opinion comes back with some new astounding revelation. The second opinion will come from a guy at Nationwide Transmission. I've had two people refer me to him so we'll see. I asked (the first guy) if the tranny overhaul included clutch packs and he said yes. It also includes the torque converter. 1600.00 and another 400 for the CAT replacement. I know that code will come back so I might as well deal with it. After this is all done, I'm going to do my "to do list" and take that SPIRITED drive!

01tl4tl

blow off the corporate store~ they have to make x amount per day... and if its a slow week,,YOU are going to pay
You need a trans overhaul- 150kmiles,, its toast,,, we all agree- you know it too

get a good quality cat from our sponsor/vendor Excelerate from 100 for basic cat to 400 for performance model
Dont let the shop low price one part,, to jam you on the next~

clean the egr ports per diy- 2 hours at a super casual pace, much less with any skills, basic tools and some confidence

then get the cat retested--throwing false codes is a fave activity of the TL~

pzhoward

I am going by my mechanic's shop on Wednesday loaded up with carbon cleaner, a tooth brush and Seafoam. He is going to "supervise" while I do everything. EGR, IACV, TB... seafoam intake, crank case and gas treatment. I can't wait to greasy! I'll have to send you pics! After that, if the 0420 code comes back then I will have the O2 sensor replaced and have the CAT tested as you instructed. And thanks for the tip on the vendors!

BTW - even though my mechanic doesn't work on trannys, he mentioned throwing a bottle of Trans X in there just for shits and giggles to see if helps the tranny. $10.00 vs $1600.00 Although, yes... i have accepted the idea/fact that I need a new tranny. Just thought I would throw that out there to see if you have ever heard of it or used it?

01tl4tl

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

01tl4tl

carbon cleaner? whats that? honda spray can stuff?

we use seafoam for everything!!

seafoam liquid, 1 can in just under half tank of gas - 8 gallons of 17.3 capacity

get 1 can Deep Creep/seafoam aerosol for TB and intake vac port cleaning
much easier to apply in spray can form, and same stuff lubes the throttle springs , cleans TB air plate and lubes its pivot hinge!
probably wont need the toothbrush but wont hurt to carry

engine oil- add 6 oz liquid to oil and drive 30 minutes -or more, then change when warm from 15 minute warm up drive- or crud all settles into sludge at bottem of pan rather than drain out
a few days driving is excellent cleaning
seafoam loves heat and time

be sure to read all the diys a few times before starting- may be stuff your guy doesnt know particular to the TL in there!
A shops solvent tank beats carb cleaner for the manifold on egr port cleaning

01tl4tl

when its all done an O2 sensor may be in order just based on age/miles
get DENSO brand for plug and play installation- its the OE brand

pzhoward

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo - you've never heard of it or Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo - don't use it? I'm guessing the later.

fsttyms1

The code you have for the trans means its toast and needs to be rebuilt. When the tq converter goes it plugs up the trans and causes wear. Dont even try the stuff. And DONT use it on a good trans either.