Good morning:

My 2002 TL all of the sudden started running very rough. "Check Engine" blinks consistently. However its a bit weird from other "running rough" experiences with other cars:

a) no loss of power
b) idle consistent throughout RPM range
c) no smoke

One piece of info which may/may not be related is that in the last week I started getting P1456 code, which likely points to EVAP canister.

What gives? My TL has been outstanding and has given me no issues in the 5 years Ive had it, I dont drive it hard, seems real random.

Thanks.

-- BigSky

 

go to a parts store and ask for a free code scanning
report those back here and we can point you in the correct direction to repair

a few questions:
Always use 91 octane or higher?
How old are the spark plugs? pull one to inspect condition
total miles on the car?
ever run cleaner thru the gas? what brand

 

Some good thinking points, thanks.

a) Always ran 91-93 UNTIL about a month back, when I've started cheating into 89. But even if this was an issue, I would think I'd get a slow degradation of performance, not a sudden chage in behavior.

b) Miles on car 141k. First owner kept it flawless, always did schedzd maintenance. However I am the second owner, which means the only thing that has happened since 98k in terms of schedzd maintenance has been oil changes and timing belt.

c) Spark plugs no idea, my guess is they are original unless they're part of schedzd maint and done by the previous owner. I'll pull one but my guess is a non-issue, else Id get a precipitous dropoff of power (plus unburned fuel stench).

d) would run cleaner ~1 a year. With all the detergents in gas these days, shouldn't be necessary.

My guesstimation is that it feels like emissions/pollution bllshtt. Without the steady rumble, the car otherwise performs fine (though I have barely driven it since the issue). I'll go back get new codes, see if we get new information, thanks.

 

This trip to AZO brought back 8 diag codes; P300-306, and the original P1456. These codes are kind of a joke; "engine randomly misfires" isn't exactly helpful.

Other bits of behavior I noticed today while driving:

a) all of the sudden TCS light on solid,
b) cruise control suddenly doesn't work,
c) once the car gets up to a cruising speed, the shudder pretty much goes away. I only get it at idle or under load during gear shift.

The "random misfire" I think rules out plugs or injectors. The issue feels like vaccuum in previous, but again first time Im venturing doing repairs on my Acura cars, so I'll defer to the board.

Thanks.

 

the plugs are supposed to be with the 105 timing belt, so if you didnt do them...
first thing: pull a front plug and inspect

use NGK Iridium IX, thats an approved upgrade over the stock ngk platinum
about 8 bucks each..dont use something else the parts store wants to sell you!!

random multiple misfire codes is typically A (1) coil failure
buy 1 and start trying it on each cyl until the problem goes away
Reset the ECU by removing the CLOCK fuse on passenger end of dash
for a minute then reinsert-
that is the secret backup power for the ECU and causes a reboot- self test all systems

test drive

 

tcs and no cruise may be a bad sensor for wheel speed
Done any brake work recently or went thru bad puddles?

get back on the 91 gas, the TL is designed for 94, so 91 is its min. allowed
any lower grade fuel causes many problems--what did you save, 2 bucks on a tank?

It also prefers `tier 1 quality` which is gas that contains up to 2 times the min cleaner amount required by the govt for tier 2 spec

some techron, redline, seafoam or bk are a good idea to get a baseline of clean inside, and sort out the other problems
seafoam works instantly on internal parts, pistons, intake valve.. via the master vac port,,and thru gas gets all the fuel system stuff
Many ziners swear by it

 

Before I start, thank you very much 01tl' for your patience and detail, its great stuff and helps me get my mind back into thinking through it logically since the 4-5 years ago when I last had my hands under the hood for anything meaningful.

Also sorry for the delay, my truck has been without heat and had to fix that one today. F'ing Fords are put together like someone's high school project.

On the TL -- I pulled two plugs they looked fine. I think they were NGK 4zf-something, I assume these are the spec platinums? I'd replace them if I had to, but where its winter and it looks like the back 3 plugs are going to be a bear, looks like a nice project in May or June. :-)

Started disconnecting coil packs and came across one where the revs didn't drop. I think this is a good starting point as the culprit?

What i dont get is why ALL the cylinders register misfires. Should just be one, no? Or does the timing advance or something to make up for the dead cylinder?

 

Dont know 01tl. Only thing I can think is that we had over a foot of snow over the weekend and Ive been driving around in the mess, maybe that affected it? Only kicked in after the storm. Still have it today when idling in the garage.

 

I would suspect that 1 coil--others made rpm drop- 2+2= likely suspect

the codes are like that- saying multiple when its only one--I cant say why,,, beyond acuras desire to sell parts?? or its not a smart system--more like fancy idiot lights

replace coil and reset ecu with clock fuse

for wheel speed sensors I bet it got way too wet in the snow
Might be ok by itself or some wd40 to clean it back up
Ck the teethed ring it reads off of too--dirt-grime will prevent reading

 

Boy I never get sick of cheating the devil (aka, dealership/repair shop). Three cars, three issues, all resolved in one week. Gotta love it. :-)

Replaced the bad coil pack, reset ECU per your instructions 01tl, car runs fine. CEL stopped blinking but still on solid, my guess is tied to p1456 so I'll look up other threads, someone must've posted on it. TCS also resolved itself but for some reason my cruise control still isn't working, small potatoes I'll deal with that in better weather.

A few questions 01 if you dont mind before we conclude the thread:

a) so with one coil pack going bad, is this the warning shot that the others arent far behind? I ran into this on my old 300z's; like clockwork, when the odometer hit 150k, the fuel injectors failed one by one in a matter of a few thousand miles. By the third Z I learned my lesson. :-)

b) I have an '03 MDX as well, 3.5 motor (dont know if there are others). Quirks and behaviors similar between the two motors, or an entirely different beast?

Thanks again for the guidance, glad to see cars are still just cars. :-)

 

no- its usually just 1 coil, unless the car or coils are subjected to severe vibration, dropping etc. Most will never replace even 1 as example

there are a few cases of 2 more failing after, but thats the most I ever saw on here,,and extreme condition driving cars,,cold cold winters etc

coils are most often damaged during plug change when set down hard or otherwise mishandled--hence my warning of: treat them like Grandmas china

We dont have to many other real probs,,keep the injectors working with seafoam in the gas 1 can to half tank,,and drive away happy

 

ck the MDX forum here on azine for help with that ride

 

TL is this your site? 23000+ posts is a baffling number of posts.

 

It's fair to say that this is not necessarily true, at least not for everyone. I have had zero problems w/ any of the fuel I've used for years- BP, Kroger, Speedway, Chevron, Thorntons, you name it.

 

guess what bp and chevron are--tier 1!!!!

you cant say no problems unless you have run an instant reading scanner to the ecu and looked inside the engine with a boroscope camera to see buildup

my car can tell the differance between arco (doesnt like) 76 (often used), and with chevron/texaco run good, and Shell it seems to accellerate better

 

bigsky
I spent over a year home with a back injury, azine was my outlet to share many years of repair experience, and do something positive with my life.
Saved many ziners loads of cash~ the thank you notes being my reward

Its amazing what you learn about the TL by reading so many different azine threads, share a tip or ask a question on next project etc.
the post count builds without realizing it.
At times I do, thats when the motorcyle comes out and you wont see me reply within a few hours to questions on a thread--
then some ziners get nervouse,,Oh no - where is 01tl4t to guide me thru this mystery problem??

Some hang out on many forums,,this in the one I do

 

total'd
the part about Use tier1 comes from the owner manual
Especially type S engines with their higher compression and need for good gas

the additional cleaner over tier2 spec may alleviate the need for bk or seafoam= if used all the time

 

I mentioned BP & Chevron, yes, but I rarely buy gas there. And no, I have not connected any scanners to compare data nor have I inspected anything w/ a boroscope. I'm only talking from personal experience and friend's experiences. I have not had any discernable issues using non tier 1 regular gas over a long period of time. I tend to think a lot of the notions such as it "accelerating better" using a particular fuel to be just that, a notion that's subjective.

 

you cant argue against clean pistons and valves = better combustion platform

Fuel injectors that spray a nice mist instead of scattered clogged drops mix better with the air and ignite better

gas is definetly headed past 5 bucks a gallon like a few years ago
barrel of oil at 91$ and expecting 100 very soon~
I do what I can to make the car run most efficient (to make up for stick tires~)

 

BTW BP is NOT on the list of tt gas: http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:

76 Petro-Canada
Aloha Petroleum Phillips 66
Chevron QuikTrip
Chevron Canada Rebel Oil
Conoco Road Ranger
CountryMark Severson Oil
Entec Stations Shell
Esso Shell Canada
Exxon Sunoco Canada
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star Texaco
MFA Oil Co. The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Mileage Stations Tri-Par Oil Co.
Mobil Turkey Hill Minit Markets
U.S. Oil

 

Sorry to hear about the back, hopefully now its a thing of the past.

Hey at least you get to enjoy cars. At this point for me its just keeping them afloat for the family. Kind of the irony; I finally got to the point in my life of having a nice garage, and now I can't enjoy it. ;-)

 

Know anything about Irving/Blue Canoe gas? I think Petro Canada is their supplier.

I've put most anything in the tank in the past, but in the last few years I've made a concerted effort to keep the dollars in North America, so I've been seeking out Canadian suppliers.

 

quiktrip
families been gettin their gas since we moved here to ga