Odd Coolant Problem
05-27-2017, 11:05 AM
#1
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Odd Coolant Problem
Hello everybody,
I bought an Acura TL 2003 about a month ago and are befuddled by a puzzle of coolant disappearance. The symptom: radiator constantly loosing coolant while reservoir tank is full. Simple solutions which I read here on forums did not help. For instance I twice changed radiator cap but the problem persists. Since I bought is I put about 6000 mi on it and added over 3 gallons of coolant to it. Every trip of 100-250 mi I add about a cap to a quart of coolant which is getting annoying. The oil is clean (not milky) and there are not white smoke from exhaust pipes. The first time we found that the engine temperature goes up and we stopped the engine right away we found that both hoses collapsed. Then we added about a gallon of coolant, since then we always add coolant before every trip and houses and not collapsing. There are no ANY drips of coolant under the car so the coolant just disappear. Lust thing one of mechanics pointed out that when hot the houses are too hard and inflated in his opinion which means that I have head gasket problem. Another guy told me that no way that coolant goes into engine since no way for me to damp 3 gallons of coolant into it and not getting a since of problems: in the past 6000 mi the engine runs as a clock, no misfires, engine light etc. Most likely that issue goes for more that 6000 mi since I found in the radiator traces of red metal powder - I found the same in Walmard as "liquid copper" - cooling system sealant. I assume the seller new about the issue, tried cheap fixes and sold the car while it was still running. Currently there are over 193000 mi on it. Any ideas about the issue?
And one more question: since it is summer and I am not concern about freezing coolant, can I use distilled water instead of coolant just to save a couple of dollars? Some people told me that coolant works as lubricant for water pump and water will wear it sooner.
Thank you advance.
I bought an Acura TL 2003 about a month ago and are befuddled by a puzzle of coolant disappearance. The symptom: radiator constantly loosing coolant while reservoir tank is full. Simple solutions which I read here on forums did not help. For instance I twice changed radiator cap but the problem persists. Since I bought is I put about 6000 mi on it and added over 3 gallons of coolant to it. Every trip of 100-250 mi I add about a cap to a quart of coolant which is getting annoying. The oil is clean (not milky) and there are not white smoke from exhaust pipes. The first time we found that the engine temperature goes up and we stopped the engine right away we found that both hoses collapsed. Then we added about a gallon of coolant, since then we always add coolant before every trip and houses and not collapsing. There are no ANY drips of coolant under the car so the coolant just disappear. Lust thing one of mechanics pointed out that when hot the houses are too hard and inflated in his opinion which means that I have head gasket problem. Another guy told me that no way that coolant goes into engine since no way for me to damp 3 gallons of coolant into it and not getting a since of problems: in the past 6000 mi the engine runs as a clock, no misfires, engine light etc. Most likely that issue goes for more that 6000 mi since I found in the radiator traces of red metal powder - I found the same in Walmard as "liquid copper" - cooling system sealant. I assume the seller new about the issue, tried cheap fixes and sold the car while it was still running. Currently there are over 193000 mi on it. Any ideas about the issue?
And one more question: since it is summer and I am not concern about freezing coolant, can I use distilled water instead of coolant just to save a couple of dollars? Some people told me that coolant works as lubricant for water pump and water will wear it sooner.
Thank you advance.
06-12-2017, 02:26 PM
#2
Intermediate
A few thoughts here, the coolant should not disappear by itself. You need to keep thinking on this.
When you see the hose collapsed, have you replaced both? It could be a leaking somewhere and drop on to the hot engine, so the coolant just vapor.
As I mentioned on the other thread, the tube between the radiator and bottle is also potentially a issue since it will age and lose tension. It could leak to a air leak and cause the radiator can not suck coolant back from the bottle.
You should not use water since the water pump may rust faster without the additive in the coolant.
When you see the hose collapsed, have you replaced both? It could be a leaking somewhere and drop on to the hot engine, so the coolant just vapor.
As I mentioned on the other thread, the tube between the radiator and bottle is also potentially a issue since it will age and lose tension. It could leak to a air leak and cause the radiator can not suck coolant back from the bottle.
You should not use water since the water pump may rust faster without the additive in the coolant.
06-12-2017, 03:44 PM
#3
Senior Moderator
your radiator could be leaking too
06-13-2017, 09:19 AM
#4
Drifting
Assuming both fans are working, you should replace your thermostat (OEM) and hope for the best. If the problem persists then you probably have a blown head gasket.
Dump your oil and check for coolant floating on top of the oil.
Pressure test or better yet vacuum test your cooling system.
Hoses collapsing or ballooning is a symptom of a blow head gasket.
If the engine is still hot and the hoses collapsing then it may be cause by the piston's vacuum stroke.
Ballooning may be cause by the piston's compression stroke.
Dump your oil and check for coolant floating on top of the oil.
Pressure test or better yet vacuum test your cooling system.
Hoses collapsing or ballooning is a symptom of a blow head gasket.
If the engine is still hot and the hoses collapsing then it may be cause by the piston's vacuum stroke.
Ballooning may be cause by the piston's compression stroke.
06-13-2017, 11:54 AM
#5
Have you had system pressure tested? Im going with Acls its pointing to head gasket but until you check oil for antifreeze and pressure test your just shooting in the dark at the root cause.
These work well for leaks but I would find out root cause before throwing on a band aid:
These work well for leaks but I would find out root cause before throwing on a band aid:
Genuine GM Fluid 3634621 Cooling System Seal Tablet - 4 Grams, (Pack of 5)
06-18-2017, 03:39 PM
#6
Pro
The coolant is going somewhere. There is only two places it can go. It is escaping by a leak which you should be able to spot by looking around or under the car. Or the head gasket is bad and you are burning it. Get a pressure tester to help you figure out where its going.
07-06-2017, 08:12 PM
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Thank you everybody for suggestions. An update: as for now I put almost 10000 mi on the car and used about 7-8 gallons of coolant. I add coolant before every trip as a routine procedure. I am mixing it at 25/75 ratio of coolant to water to save on coolant but still have some protection for water pump. The engine runs perfectly, no any issues, the temperature is very cool. Is ti possible that the head gasket is leaking coolant to combustion chamber, engine burned 8 gallons of coolant and still working? Can I consider this as a sing of not a healthy head gasket? The car is almost 200000 mi and it is time for timing belt, however I am hesitant to do this $600-700 service if my engine is blown.
If I have the car idling for 5-8 minutes on a parking lot I do not see a single drop of coolant. That was a reason for me not to make a pressure test, since somebody explained that pressure test provides the same pressure a running engine does since if the pressure goes higher then the pressure valve in the radiator cap will release the pressure. (I would appreciate if you believe that my logic is flawed and I still need the pressure test). 01acls Suggested a vacuum test - I wonder - what is it and why is it better?
Today I found a new interesting symptom: I spotted s very thin light white smoke coming from dashboard heater vents. When I turned off my air conditioner the smoke stopped. I remember similar problem with my Chevy express and the diagnosis was - heater core. But it was in winter time, can air conditioner also produce smoke? A local mechanic told me that to make a sense of pressure test if core is leaking is very hard since you can not see the core unless you make very costly dashboard disassembly .
I bought a Lisle 75500 Combustion Leak Detector . The test result was mixed: after about 10 min if the test the blue liquid slightly changed the color to blue-green, not yellow at all. I think at may be because of my own CO since I use my mouth as a source of vacuum .
What will you suggest? Thank you in advance.
If I have the car idling for 5-8 minutes on a parking lot I do not see a single drop of coolant. That was a reason for me not to make a pressure test, since somebody explained that pressure test provides the same pressure a running engine does since if the pressure goes higher then the pressure valve in the radiator cap will release the pressure. (I would appreciate if you believe that my logic is flawed and I still need the pressure test). 01acls Suggested a vacuum test - I wonder - what is it and why is it better?
Today I found a new interesting symptom: I spotted s very thin light white smoke coming from dashboard heater vents. When I turned off my air conditioner the smoke stopped. I remember similar problem with my Chevy express and the diagnosis was - heater core. But it was in winter time, can air conditioner also produce smoke? A local mechanic told me that to make a sense of pressure test if core is leaking is very hard since you can not see the core unless you make very costly dashboard disassembly .
I bought a Lisle 75500 Combustion Leak Detector . The test result was mixed: after about 10 min if the test the blue liquid slightly changed the color to blue-green, not yellow at all. I think at may be because of my own CO since I use my mouth as a source of vacuum
. What will you suggest? Thank you in advance.
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07-06-2017, 11:50 PM
#8
Thank you everybody for suggestions. An update: as for now I put almost 10000 mi on the car and used about 7-8 gallons of coolant. I add coolant before every trip as a routine procedure. I am mixing it at 25/75 ratio of coolant to water to save on coolant but still have some protection for water pump. The engine runs perfectly, no any issues, the temperature is very cool. Is ti possible that the head gasket is leaking coolant to combustion chamber, engine burned 8 gallons of coolant and still working? Can I consider this as a sing of not a healthy head gasket? The car is almost 200000 mi and it is time for timing belt, however I am hesitant to do this $600-700 service if my engine is blown.
If I have the car idling for 5-8 minutes on a parking lot I do not see a single drop of coolant. That was a reason for me not to make a pressure test, since somebody explained that pressure test provides the same pressure a running engine does since if the pressure goes higher then the pressure valve in the radiator cap will release the pressure. (I would appreciate if you believe that my logic is flawed and I still need the pressure test). 01acls Suggested a vacuum test - I wonder - what is it and why is it better?
Today I found a new interesting symptom: I spotted s very thin light white smoke coming from dashboard heater vents. When I turned off my air conditioner the smoke stopped. I remember similar problem with my Chevy express and the diagnosis was - heater core. But it was in winter time, can air conditioner also produce smoke? A local mechanic told me that to make a sense of pressure test if core is leaking is very hard since you can not see the core unless you make very costly dashboard disassembly .
I bought a Lisle 75500 Combustion Leak Detector . The test result was mixed: after about 10 min if the test the blue liquid slightly changed the color to blue-green, not yellow at all. I think at may be because of my own CO since I use my mouth as a source of vacuum .
What will you suggest? Thank you in advance.
If I have the car idling for 5-8 minutes on a parking lot I do not see a single drop of coolant. That was a reason for me not to make a pressure test, since somebody explained that pressure test provides the same pressure a running engine does since if the pressure goes higher then the pressure valve in the radiator cap will release the pressure. (I would appreciate if you believe that my logic is flawed and I still need the pressure test). 01acls Suggested a vacuum test - I wonder - what is it and why is it better?
Today I found a new interesting symptom: I spotted s very thin light white smoke coming from dashboard heater vents. When I turned off my air conditioner the smoke stopped. I remember similar problem with my Chevy express and the diagnosis was - heater core. But it was in winter time, can air conditioner also produce smoke? A local mechanic told me that to make a sense of pressure test if core is leaking is very hard since you can not see the core unless you make very costly dashboard disassembly .
I bought a Lisle 75500 Combustion Leak Detector . The test result was mixed: after about 10 min if the test the blue liquid slightly changed the color to blue-green, not yellow at all. I think at may be because of my own CO since I use my mouth as a source of vacuum
.What will you suggest? Thank you in advance.
07-07-2017, 08:57 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
If your engine is consuming 8 gallons of coolant over a 70 day, 10,000 mile period, with no visible external leaks, one potential cause, would be a failed head gasket. A failed head gasket, (with such massive coolant loss), should be evident in the form of "white" smoke emitted from the exhaust, especially when starting the engine cold. Have you removed, and examined the spark plugs? Such extreme coolant loss, due to a failing head gasket, should be "very" obvious, when comparing the burn pattern, of the 6 spark plug tips! For a heater core to leak 8 gallons of coolant, in that time period , the front carpet would almost have to be soaking wet, most of the time. A competent radiator repair shop, would be able to diagnose the problem very quickly, if you choose a professional, (Cost should be minimal), to address the issue. Occasionally, "Mist" is visible, coming from the vents, on my 2003 TLS, with 230K. This phenomenon, when it happens, happens on very high humidity days. I consider it normal, as I have experienced it in many different cars.
07-07-2017, 01:59 PM
#10
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Thank you WNG and frankjnjr for your answers. It is good to know that it was air conditioner mist and I am not breathing harmful coolant fumes.
Is it possible for an engine to burn 8 gallons of coolant and still work? Should not it ruin pistons and cylinders?
How easy is to remove spark plugs on Acuta TL? Can I do it myself of it is a major project?
Is it possible for an engine to burn 8 gallons of coolant and still work? Should not it ruin pistons and cylinders?
How easy is to remove spark plugs on Acuta TL? Can I do it myself of it is a major project?
07-07-2017, 02:33 PM
#11
Drifting
OP,
Vacuum test is better at detecting leaks because air can travel through small or minute crevices better than coolant. It will be definitive whether you have a leak or not. The disadvantage is you need to drain the cooling system but that's not a problem if you're already low on coolant.
Plus when filling a cooling system via the vacuum way there is no air in the cooling system, therefore, no need to burp the cooling system.
If you're loosing that much coolant then it's probably a head gasket or water pump leak.
Vacuum test is better at detecting leaks because air can travel through small or minute crevices better than coolant. It will be definitive whether you have a leak or not. The disadvantage is you need to drain the cooling system but that's not a problem if you're already low on coolant.
Plus when filling a cooling system via the vacuum way there is no air in the cooling system, therefore, no need to burp the cooling system.
If you're loosing that much coolant then it's probably a head gasket or water pump leak.
07-08-2017, 02:15 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
Coolant loss
Thank you WNG and frankjnjr for your answers. It is good to know that it was air conditioner mist and I am not breathing harmful coolant fumes.
Is it possible for an engine to burn 8 gallons of coolant and still work? Should not it ruin pistons and cylinders?
How easy is to remove spark plugs on Acuta TL? Can I do it myself of it is a major project?
Is it possible for an engine to burn 8 gallons of coolant and still work? Should not it ruin pistons and cylinders?
How easy is to remove spark plugs on Acuta TL? Can I do it myself of it is a major project?