All the posts on here really helped me when I was buying my car 1.5 years ago, so I'm hoping someone can help me out now. Here's the situation:

*I have a 2002 TL-S, 167k miles, purchased at 147k miles, so I've driven 20k.

*The tranny was replaced by the original owner at 79k miles in Feb. 2005. It has the newer case design with the internal oil jet. He had no further problems.

*Since I read the entire tranny failure thread before purchase, I've always been very aware of how the car's shifting. I also never had a problem until last week.

*I was making a right turn (last Sunday) and thought I saw the tranny slip a bit from 2nd to 3rd (looked like it jumped up to around 4000 rpms). I haven't seen anything like that since, but I have noticed a few little "hiccups" where it just didn't seem to be shifting quite right. Probably not anything most people would notice.

*Yesterday, both times I got in the car and put it in drive, it just revved the first time I hit the gas. After waiting a second or two, then trying again, it was fine.

*I checked the tranny fluid myself and it was light brown (with reddish tint) - same as it's been since I purchased it (and I have had the drain/fill done by Acura since purchase). My husband and I agreed that it smelled bad, but not necessarily burnt. Just yuck.

*I brought it up to Acura this morning for them to diagnose. I thought for sure I'd be getting a call today telling me that I needed a new tranny. Especially since the car has been making a loud noise while driving over the last week or two. Figured it was related to the tranny.

*Surprisingly, Acura declared that my transmission was okay - my invoice says "no problem found at this time." The noise I'd been hearing was a wheel bearing, which I had them replace. They test drove the car and said the shifting was very smooth, no delays. They said the delayed drive I'd experienced was likely due to the extreme cold we've had the last few days. They checked the tranny fluid and found the color, level, and smell all to be good. They checked for codes, but didn't find any for the engine or tranny. They basically told me that all was well and I had nothing to worry about.

*I picked up the car after work tonight and drove the half hour or so back home. The car still seemed like it was shifting strangely to me - nothing big to point at, but it just seemed a bit off.

*One mile from home, three lights came on at once: the check engine, vsa, and tcs lights. I did NOT have a blinking D5, as I've seen in other tranny failure reports. The car was still in gear and seemed okay, so I drove the last mile home. Turned off the car and turned it back on, only the check engine light remains.

*Is my tranny going and I just am more aware of it than the Acura tech? Or is there likely something else going on, since the D5 light stayed on solid and Acura found no reasons for concern? Is it safe to drive or should I have it towed back to Acura? I'd consider trying to bring it somewhere closer to read the codes that it's surely generated now, but I'm afraid to drive it at the moment.

*If it is the tranny, I am fully prepared to make my case for goodwill. I already have a list made up of all the reasons they should consider, including that the car was purchased at the dealer by the original owner, had all it's maintenance at the dealer (both the original owner and I have brought it there and I have all the records), I've owned 5 Acuras, etc. I even have an email from the Service Manager telling me how well-maintained the car was when I purchased it. Plus, I gave them a nice chunk of money today to do the wheel bearing and brakes.

I love the car and, since I got a great deal on it when I got it from the original owner, I did put aside some extra money (about enough for a 50% goodwill deal) just in case I had a tranny problem, though I thought it would be unlikely with the post-2005 replacement tranny. If I end up getting a new tranny, I would think I could drive it for another few years, up to 200k miles as I had planned, without trouble and it should be warrantied until then. So, I'd like to keep the car. Other than this, it's been great!

Any thoughts on this whole situation would be helpful. I want to be armed with as much info as possible when I go back to Acura about this. Thanks!

 

Glad you're well informed.


take the car to an auto parts store for a free diagnostic, they can tell you what the codes were.
Personally, I would change out the fluid to a better ATF than the Honda Z1.

 

goodwill follows the current owner, not the past owners wallet
You spent money there- thats what matters

odd to get prob like you did, unles the test at acura stressed the trans almost to the breaking point, with a PNF diagnosis- that happens

parts store for codes if you can
otherwise speak to the SERVICE MANAGER about what happened and has left you stranded,
not what you expect after just having the car in the shop and told `all is well`

the whirring noise in the back is often RR wheel bearing, many of us have that failure

 

This may be a stretch, but that could be your CV joints/front axles. The fact that it slipped when turning is a clue, and even the 'not engaging in drive'. If you hear any clicking when making sharp turns that is a confirmation. Go to a parking lot and do some circles in each direction. Also if you make a sharp turn from a stop at the top of a steep hill and hear the clicking, that is an indicator since that hill will put a lot of strain on the axles. When a CV joint/axle breaks, it's just like a failed tranny. Just my two cents.

 

good call jdj,,anything to help diagnose and eliminate is always welcomed!

2 seconds to engage D from N is normal, more is not

When its cold out, and you use R as the first motion of the car/trans,
give the car 2 minutes to warm up then go
Increased line pressure by the slightly higher rpm and cold fluids can make
that shift into R more difficult for the trans

As for fluid, burnt sugar is the bad smell
otherwise normal atf smell

Which wheel bearing did they replace?

 

Thanks, I just checked and the closest place that will run the codes for free is about 7 miles away. If this horrible fog we have right now clears up, I might try to get down there today.

Yeah, I've actually spent a lot of money there. I bought my previous Integra at that dealership and had most of the maintenance for it done there also (including $$$ timing belt, shortly before I sold it). I've also built a pretty strong relationship with one of the service advisors, so hopefully that will help out...he knows and likes me...and I've given him all 10s on the surveys, so there's some incentive to keep me as his customer. I feel like he would go to bat for me with the service manager, if it comes down to that.

What's PNF? Sorry, guess I haven't learned all the lingo yet.

Although I haven't had any contact with the service manager since I bought the car a year and a half ago, I did make it a point to build a rapport with him then, and he seemed like a reasonably good guy. He actually was the one who got me all the maintenance records for the car and advised me that it was an excellent car - and he knew the previous owner personally and the guy's entire family owns Acuras. He also advised me that these newer tranny replacements rarely fail.

It was actually the front driver's side wheel bearing. Which explains why I felt like the noise could have been coming from the direction of the tranny. That noise is completely gone now.

That's interesting. I did have a CV boot or two replaced with one of my old Integras, so I definitely know the clicking you are talking about. I haven't heard anything of the sort coming from the TL, but then again, it had been so noisy the last couple weeks (due to the wheel bearing) that I don't know if I could have heard it over that. I did ask Acura to inspect the suspension yesterday, when it was up for the wheel bearing though, since we've had some awful potholes around here recently - they didn't report back any suspension issues to me, though. If I take the car out today, I'll try to test that. Thanks!

 

I must have posted at the same time as you. Thanks for the info. What is normal ATF smell...is it bad-smelling? I have checked it before and don't seem to remember it smelling as bad as it has over the last week, but it doesn't smell burnt either - and Acura seconded that. Not sure what to think.

 

I decided to take my chances and drive the car over to Autozone today. Luckily, the TL made it just fine, but still is having some weird shift moments - especially 2nd-3rd and 3rd-4th. Nothing very noticeable (no high RPMs), but it seems like it's struggling a bit to get through those gear shifts. I saw a video on here awhile back that showed the tach jumping up just slightly before going back down during a shift - I've seen that happen a few times on mine. Although the CEL remains on, the other lights didn't return. Here's what Autozone came up with:

P0740 Transmission lock-up control system fault
Probably cause:
1.) Low transmission fluid level (it's not low)
2.) Poor electrical connection
3.) Failed TCC solenoid

P1399 Random cylinder misfire detected
Probably cause:
1.) Blocked EGR passage
2.) Valve clearance out of range

I checked the tranny fluid upon arriving home and it is in the same condition as it has been (light brown, good level, weird (but not burnt) smell).

So, is my tranny on its last legs? Or is there still a possibility this is something else? From all the reading I've done on here, I'm guessing that I'm looking at a new tranny, but it does seem unusual that the tranny has not been terribly symptomatic (yet?)

Autozone guy advised having it towed to Acura (which I was already planning to do), so it doesn't get worse. I plan to have it towed on Monday, when the service manager and my advisor are both there.

 

that random misfire could cause tach jumping and rpm surge
codes are clues-- not diagnosis

Have you done the egr port cleaning of intake manifold??
not on acuras `service list` but something very important to do every 75kmiles

the o740--you may be calling upon that good rapport,, for you know what!

how far to the dealer? 10-20 miles- no danger if you must pull over?
then I would drive it--they give bad symtoms all of a sudden then drive fine for a week-then ptttt
If its a risky drive -call the dealer and have them send a tow
Remind them it was just in for this!! industry term= Comeback (oh no! its come back!!!)
Knowing your service writer will help in this case

PNF = `Problem Not Found`.. at this time.
Its their backup plan- when something goes out later they can help goodwill it,,,documented you think something is wrong they cant find, but cant dismiss either

of course, we must be hopeful its just a wire knocked loose while they worked on the wheel bearing

 

I would tend to believe the transmission is going again. The 5-speed is well known to fail and I would be very suspect of anything else strictly based on it's history. You've got almost 100K on the replacement and I would tend to look more at the shifting problems as the source of your problem.

What's interesting here is the dealer "certifying" (dare I use that word ?) that the transmission is fine. I think you may be able to use this as leverage to reduce your cost to replace the transmission, which is the probable outcome of this scenario.

Good luck and keep us informed.

 

I would suggest an immediate tranny fluid replacement if possible. Worth a shot. And if no goodwill or warranty provided, I would suggest Amsoil ATF. Using it now would void any warranty, but if they leave you hanging at the dealership, it might be worth a shot to try the Amsoil. It remedied some shuddering I had with my car @ 100K miles. Okay, let the flaming begin.

 

let him work with the dealer first--
especially since their test drive is what ended the trans life~
I have been on one in my car with the Head Tech- it stresses the trans so if its going to show any signs- it should then,,,but it might just put the final hurt on it
so they say PNF and expect to hear from you in a week

Be positive- expect lots of help based on your spending habits there

`I hate cars` of gen3, is having good results with Redline racing atf reducing shudder and improved smoothness to shift on ailing trans-- has been reported by several ziners trying it so far

 

That's good to know. The service writer said the same thing today too.

I have not done that and I doubt the original owner did either. Good to know, though. Thanks.

I made sure to throw that in tonight when I brought the car in.

Yeah, 88k is "not bad" compared to some TL transmissions. But not what I expected out of the "improved" one either, though.

I actually saved the voicemail from the advisor telling me that the tranny is fine and I have nothing to worry about. Just in case I needed it later...

Thanks, I'll definitely post follow-up.

Thanks for the info. We'll see what happens at the dealer.

I'm actually a her

That's interesting. I was almost wondering if they really test drove it, though. When they said it shifted smoothly and on time with no problems, I was thinking, "Are you sure you drove MY car??" So, I don't know how they drove it, but it may not be a coincidence that it lit up on the way home.

Thanks, I hope things go well. Trying to be very friendly and positive with them. I did figure out that I've spent over $1500 at the dealership in about the last 8 months, so that might help.

Thanks, I read up a bit on that.


UPDATE: Not really much new to report. Since I had to work today, I had the car towed up this evening. My advisor actually recommended I chance it and drive it there, but I just wasn't comfortable driving 23 miles on a 60 mph freeway in 4 degree weather with a possibly bad tranny. So, I utilized our AAA membership for a tow. I have a 2010 TSX Navi loaner now. They'll start looking at the car tomorrow.

 

In those weather conditions and drive amount- I would have said to the SW
"well you told me the trans was fine, so why dont you come over here wearing nothing but shorts and a tshirt,,, and drive my car to the shop"

the tow truck would have been on its way~

 

I love it! However, since I knew I had AAA, I figured I'd better pick my battles. Save the convincing for bigger things.


UPDATE: Got a call today from a different service writer. This dealership has been switching around which brand (Acura/Subaru) that its people deal with and my normal guy got switched to Subaru (which he told me Friday). The new one I talked to today wasn't a stranger, though, he handled a big suspension job for me last summer.

At any rate, he said that the transmission needed to be replaced (shocker, I know! ha). He said that it was shifting really roughly. I found this very strange since it was shifting exactly the way it did on Friday, when it was found to be "smooth and not delayed." When I told this guy that the car had been there on Friday and was sent home with a clean bill of health, he was quite surprised. Guess he hadn't read all the notes.

Anyway, he quoted $3900 for the tranny. He started to mention the PCM, but I knew from my records that it had been replaced in Feb. 2005 and he was able to verify that and said it would not need to be replaced again. Not surprisingly, the front motor mount needs to be replaced. He quoted around $200, I believe, and I made sure that was using the minimal amount of labor needed since the tranny would already be out. He confirmed that it was. The final thing he found was a leak in something to do with the oil, maybe a sensor or something??? Sorry, I didn't catch all of what he said on that, but it's around $100 to fix (maybe one of you knows what he was trying to tell me?)

I asked him about goodwill and, although he mentioned the car's high mileage, he's going to put in the request with the service manager (who is a different one than the one I talked to when buying the car). I emailed him my list of the things that I want them to take into consideration for goodwill. I may have mentioned something in the email too about how I hope this works out well so I can continue giving this dealership 10s on the surveys.

He said he won't have a response until tomorrow, so I'm just waiting for now. More to come! Hopefully something good!

 

The fact that you had your transmission inspected days before failure really means nothing and I would not expect them to give you any credit for this. The only way to fully inspect transmission is to open it up, the transmission might drive fine and pass all tests and then fail within hours or days. Your only hope is to get some discount because you spent money there. You will be lucky if you get 50% off... expect more like 25% off. If you dont get any discount I would seriously considering totaling the car or getting it done cheap and reselling. your car is only worth 4K with a working tranny.

 

her car had lots of maitenance items recently- so its good to keep with a good trans!
$2500 at local rebuilders~ maybe less

if you have ever been on a trans test drive with the tech, as I have-
you know the hurt they put on the trans- repeated cruising 25 and 35 mph then stomp the pedal and see how it downshifts (exact test speeds vary with year and type)
do this 10-20 times in a row and things are going to be hot!!
they are looking for slippage on the shift when hot, not so much the super smooth normal shifts that we expect

they also do a smell and visual on the fluid and ck for codes

figures they moved the employees around, but you know where they are and can call- (in the morning) Explain whats happened and ask for a support phone call to the new crew on your behalf ~as a valued customer,,who gives 10s on the surveys!!

 

Well, I FINALLY got my car back today! It's been quite an ordeal. The summary is:

*Goodwill request #1 was rejected.

*After explaining our situation to the service manager, he put in the request again. Rejected again.

*My husband called the Acura corporate number and had a horrible customer service experience with the front-line person, before finally getting them to agree to have a case manager call back.

*Husband was so upset with the rudeness that he decided to take it to twitter. Acura monitors twitter and very quickly contacted him to see what they could do.

*Service Manager at dealership did his best to go through our estimate and discount things. He got us down under the $3k mark, which was our goal (this was for tranny, plus motor mount, plus oil pressure sending unit).

*Case manager told us that Acura was going to contribute and he would call back the next day, once things were finalized.

*Case manager called the next day saying that they found out the dealer's offer and it was better than theirs, so they were just going to compensate the dealership and $3k was the offer.

*When SM found out, he was upset, as Acura was NOT reimbursing them anything. Case manager lied to us. Husband took that to twitter too (but said kind things about our dealership, just not Acura corporate).

*Picked car up today and paid $2990.41. Breakdown:
Tranny labor: $550/Parts: $2106.41
Oil Pressure Sending Unit labor: $30/Parts: $13.60
Front Mount labor: $15/Parts: $112.95
Sales tax: $162.45
Given the situation, I think the numbers are just randomly discounted - I don't know that the labor charges represent actual times. And the tranny has a $1200 discount that says "core return" bringing down the price. Brought donuts for SM, since he's the one who came through for us on this.

*Car seems to be working okay so far. Not noticing any difference in shifting now versus a month ago with the old tranny. So the old one must have gone fast. Checked the fluid and it is nice and pink and smells better than the old stuff.

*The car has had a fair amount of work done recently (suspension, brakes, etc.), so with the 36 month/36k mile warranty on the tranny, it should be good to drive for the next few years, up to 200k or so.

*I hope to never have to go through this again!

Thanks for your help, everybody!

 

core return--they actually had that included as a cost to you in the original estimate?
wow- thats charged to dealer and refunded automatically when used unit is returned

the parts and labor sound in line with actual or low book times
nice save on that op sendor- down from 100!!

twitter eh!! now we know how to get corps attention
I knew they hated bad comments online--but instant online sharing has stepped that up!
must take a staff to handle watching all of it now~

what did I tell you about the acura 800 phone peon-- who is there only to quote from
The Great Book of NO!!
and them pissing off customers is not a good idea...

in the old days a happy customer told 2 friends
while an Unhappy customer told 11
think about a restaurant or movie expereince you told people about--2 or 11?

Now with the internet and `pocketnet` an unhappy customer jumps online and tells 11 MILLION