sistom

My car starting skipping and driving very sluggish. The check engine and TCS light are both on. When I accelerate even a tiny bit the check engine light blinks at me like it's pissed off.

First we replaced all of the spark plugs. None of them looked bad enough to be causing the problem and they weren't.

Next we replaced the front O2 sensor. That didn't fix it.

So we replaced the rear O2 sensor. That didn't work either.

We decided to go with something we read about changing out the EGR valve and hoped that would fix it. Nope. Still nothing.

Our next idea was that maybe there wasn't enough fuel getting to the engine and that was causing it to misfire. So we went and bought a fuel pump.

We haven't tried switching out the fuel pumps yet because we decided that we wanted to get my fuel pressure checked first to see if it is even a problem or not.

I'm going in Monday to get the fuel pressure checked but does anyone have any input or experience with this? I've read some similar threads and the only answers seem to be injectors or coil packs. Anyone?

thanks!

fsttyms1

You have a coil pack bad.

sky2002

I just went through the same problem. It is the coil pack. I have to replace one of the 6 coil packs.

09_Type-S

im having the same problem...but my car doesnt run sluggish and doesnt seem like there is a loss of power. sometimes the rpms bounce around on a cold start but thats about it...any ideas...sorry didnt mean to threadjack

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

rpms bouncing at idle is typically the idle air control valve (IACV). You can eitehr clean it or just buy a new one. It's part of the throttle body (bottom).

sistom

Hmm... I bet changing out one wouldn't be that expensive but I imagine it gets pretty pricey replacing them all. grrr.

I hate to admit it but I'm just trying to get it running good again so that I can sell it. I hate that I have to sell my baby but it's time.

Thanks for the help fsttyms1. You were the one that I was hoping would respond. thanks man!

sistom

Ok. So a mechanic that I took my car to had the catalytic converter checked and it's fine. He asked me if I had been having any battery troubles and I told him that I had but I always thought it was because of my 3 TV's I have in the car. He said that it could just be as simple as a bad battery. WRONG.

$50 later and new battery, same problem.

Next I went and bought a coil pack like fsttyms1 told me to do.

I tried replacing the front 3 coil packs one at a time and each time the engine kept moving all around still.

I haven't tried the back 3 yet but I am about to go and have the fuel pressure checked. We've already bought the fuel pump so we want to know if maybe that's the problem. Ugh!

Any helpful advice? Thanks!

fsttyms1

What do you mean the engine kept moving around? Did you reset the ECU every time to clear the codes?

Why would you test 3 and move on to something else. Test the back 3 THEN have the pressure tested or the injectors looked at.

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

I vote coil pack or injectors. Did you read the codes to help diagnose the problem?

He probably meant the rpm kept moving around.

Why would it be the battery!? The battery isn't even used when the car is running, the car uses the alternator to generate voltage and even charges the battery. Simply turn off you TV's and such if suspect.

Listen to the people on this board they know the TL very well.

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

Oh and when the CEL flashes it's saying your misfiring to the extent that you may be causing engine damage. Do not drive it in that mode where you see if flashing!

sistom

The engine is vibrating like hell is what I meant. I goes in and out of periods of 'shakiness' when sitting in idle.

I tried the coil pack on the back 4 and nothing helped.

We checked the fuel pressure and it was fine.

I went by the dealership and asked them if they could offer me any free advice and they said that they just had a Honda CRV that was having the same problems as me and that they fixed everything on it and that it ended up being the computer.

The guy said that the problem with replacing the computer is that you're not really positive if it is going to fix the problem or not.

fsttyms1: no, I didn't reset the codes each time....

Do I have to go back and do them all again?!?

01tl4tl

when you put a new coil on a cylinder you MUST reset the ECU so it can run a self test and see if that fixed the problem
If still bad, move new coil to next cylinder- reset ECU- repeat as needed
Clock Fuse #13 on passenger side is the easy way to reset ECU- pull it for a minute then reinsert

Did this all start after you changed the plugs?
What plugs are you using? NGK Iridium or NGK Platinum are acceptable

Often in a DIY plug change a coil is dropped -even slightly or mishandled in some way.
It doesnt take much to cause an internal prob that makes the car run as you described--sometimes takes a month or so to act up

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

I would think if it was misfiring that bad you would not need to clear the check engine light. It probably is something else.

Get your codes read already!? Goto PepBoys/Autozone/AdvancedAuto/Murrays they do it for free. Write them all down. They start with P.

01tl4tl

Batteries will cause running problems too- 3-4 years is average car battery life
The car runs off the battery- the alternator REPLACES what is being used at the moment to keep it fully charged

Using the starter takes a big dose of battery power which must be replaced by the alt.
Below 1700 rpm the alt isnt putting out enough to maintain the battery draw for that and any extra loads

The car does NOT run on the ALT- thats old wives tale from the old alternator testing method of disconnecting battery cables and the car still runs,,,it idles but it wont run!!
And thats on old low electric demand cars- try it in the TL with electronic everything and computers,,,its not happening,,

01tl4tl

misfire is one of many things that will throw a CEL- its to get your attention

You MUST reset the ECU to clear the light and codes causing it--then it can reset itself and see if everything is working or needs a new CEL alert to the driver
Thats after new part location- on coil

fsttyms1

low enough voltage would do it. A alt or battery failing would cause issues.

A ECU would also cause the issue. There are many things that it could be. Your best bet may be to bring it in and let them hook it up to a live data machine to read every thing going on. Maybe they may spot something

sistom

Umm.... Look at the title of the thread. Thanks for the help though.


Anyone else agree with this? I left the new coil pack on the back left (if facing windshield because it was the hardest to change and I figured it should have the new one.

fsttyms1, I know I should take it to the dealership and just pay them for using their machine... I just hate giving up like that but if you think that's the next best step then that's the route I will take. Thanks.

Soseductivesf

Damn it all sounds too familar to me, I bought a coilpack and switched it around and it still threw misfire codes, I'm thinking its the ecu it almost CAN'T be anything else in my case... How long does it take the codes to come back on? Mine would be a day or two but my car runs strong..

sistom

Usually as soon as I give it enough gas first the check engine light will blink a few times and then go away. Then the TCS light comes on next and the engine lights blinks again and they both stay on after that.



Where should I look for a used ECU at, any suggestions?

01tl4tl

STOP guessing about expensive parts!
If you have tried the new coil on each cyclinder with ECU reset after each install, then it really is time for the dealer diagnosis
THe hardest one to reach is not reason to leave it there or even suspect it!
Most readouts will give a few cyl numbers- often its one of them-not all

They have a data reader that hooks up while they drive the car so it reads under all conditions--thats way more than the free code read at parts store can read for you
Sometimes you have to bite it and pay the pro,,spend $100 now to save $500 in wrong parts

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

I think you have it backwards. The alternator and battery are effectively in parallel. With the engine running, the alt produces ~14.5vdc. During that time the battery is being trickle charged. If under unusually heavy loads the alt itself cannot keep up current load (Amps) the voltage will decrease. If the decrease is at a point that of the battery ~12v, the battery will start to supply current.

I agree... But a weak battery is normally detected the moment it won't start a car. A weak alternator is first detected after it has failed to charge the battery and can't start the car. When the alt and battery are both weak either the car won't start or it's going to die if it is on.

sistom: fsttyms1 is right. It can be many things. Helms manual says to check for any other DTC codes and fix those first. Then check: fuel pressure, coils, injectors, coils wires, engine compression, injector wires. As noted it can be the ecu. Check those that you can handle and let the pro's handle the rest.

sistom

Well last night I purchased a ECU off of a totaled 99 TL from eBay. I plan on putting it in myself and then taking it to the dealership (will I have to tow it or will it drive?) and having them "reprogram" the computer.

I'm planning on them seeing if anything else is wrong when they program the computer for me... I guess if my computer ends up being good still then I'll sell it on eBay too.

That's the update thus far. Comments? Thanks for all the help too people.

I know in the end you can always count on you all for advice.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

You will not be able to start the car with the new ECU in until they reprogram it for your current chipped key.

sistom

Well that sucks. That means I am going to have it towed to the dealership... Hrmm... I wonder how much they would charge me to just put the new computer in. And that's if they would even do it at all seeing as it's a used part that I bought from somewhere else. Who knows...

sistom

Ok, so I got another update.

I just got off the phone with the dealership and they told me that if I brought in the ECU that I got from eBay and dropped the car off with them they will install AND program the computer for only $89.95.

How great of a deal is that? And on top of that, if the new ECU doesn't fix it then atleast they should tell me what is wrong with it.

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

don't forget to let them know about the remote starter because there is a hidden "key" that may need reprogramming. also tell them you want the old ecu in case you have to put that back on ebay.

sistom

Ahh! Excellent advice. Thank you very much. I hadn't even thought about the hidden key, it's been so long since I had the thing installed.

sistom

Guess what??? My car is FIXED!!!

I broke down and took it to the dealership. They put in the computer that I got off of eBay. It didn't fix the problem.

It ended up being clogged injectors and junk in my "fuel bar".

It runs like a new car now!!

they did all the work on w/ replacing the computer and programming it. took the screens out of all the injectors and cleaned the hell out of them. Cleaned the junk out of the fuel bar and it runs perfectly! All for only $399.23.

WOOOOOOO HOOOOO

Thanks for all the help guys.

thinhthan

buy one new coil and put it in each cylinder and when it runs fine thats the bad cylinder i just had that prob

clint999

when you put a new coil on a cylinder you MUST reset the ECU so it can run a self test and see if that fixed the problem
If still bad, move new coil to next cylinder- reset ECU- repeat as needed
Clock Fuse #13 on passenger side is the easy way to reset ECU- pull it for a minute then reinsert

Did this all start after you changed the plugs?
What plugs are you using? NGK Iridium or NGK Platinum are acceptable

Often in a DIY plug change a coil is dropped -even slightly or mishandled in some way.
It doesnt take much to cause an internal prob that makes the car run as you described--sometimes takes a month or so to act up

Soseductivesf

fuel bar?

silver2003tl

iTrader: (1)

fuel bar is where the injectors are "mounted" to via o-ring seal. they are 2 of them: one for cyl 1, 2 and 3. the other for 4, 5, & 6.

MurdaZ

iTrader: (1)

fuel rail

Soseductivesf

Is there a d.i.y for this?

uhg0

I have the exact same problem/codes P0300-P0306 and P1399, after I cleaned my EGR valve and hesitation and stalling was reduced a little, maybe I have to do a deeper clean or I'm hoping sistom's solution works for me as well. I don't want to be guessing what other parts could be, sounds like a lot of money changing all those parts

daigo3d

OK, after reading all these posts and dealing with a similar problem on a 2000 3.2TL, this is what I found.
Customer's car came in with misfires on 2,3,5 & 6. Has 123k miles on it, and unfortunately, not maintained very well. We recommended starting with spark plugs, and valve adjustment.
Did those two things, and still had misfires - 2 & 5. Good news is that valve job took care of half the problem.
We swapped plugs and coils, but didn't seem to matter. Went so far as to swap fuel injectors, and checked EGR valve. Still had same codes. We were only moving the coils on the front three to try to isolate the problem. On a whim, I decided to move #2 coil to #6.
Behold, the misfire changed to #6 and #1. Cleared codes at each interval to start fresh. It seems that a single misfire will put out codes for two cylinders. Once again, to be sure, moved the "bad" coil to #4. Cleared codes and the misfire moved to #4 and #2.
Replaced coil and check engine light gone. Engine still doesn't run great, but that is due to lack of maintenance. I fixed the "problem".

01tl4tl

thats how we suggest tracking multi misfire codes- go off the possible cyls on the codes and reset ecu by pulling clock fuse after each move

typically, members will buy 1 new coil and try it until prob is fixed

on fuel injector and rail clogging- Seafoam to the rescue!! at 16 oz can in 8 gal of gas, do that twice and its good for a year
Dont forget the TB air plate needs cleaning and lube of pivot hinge

another weird TL issue is the EGR ports get clogged every 75kmiles
remove intake manifold from car and clean egr ports and passages with solvent/carb cleaner and a wire coat hanger to poke thru the passages, not just the holes!

Hopefully that was done with the valve adjust as manifold was already removed for that job

01tl4tl

on spark plugs make sure the use NGK iridium or NGK Iridium IX
NGK PLatinum were stock and irids are an approved upgrade- as used stock in gen3

if bosch or delco went in get them out now- if not already.. they will soon be toast--dont like the TL ignition at all and cause many running probs

you mention car not maintained- be aware timing belt water pump was due at 105, along with basic tune of plugs and fuel treatment, air filter etc

01tl4tl

note cly numbering is: firewall side passenger to driver, 1 2 3
front of car pass to driver 4 5 6

jayn1321

I was driving around yesterday when the exact same thing happened to me with the stuttering, rough idle, etc. I couldn't go above 50mph in fear that it would shake itself apart.

I took it to Autozone right away, ran the codes. Sure enough the P0300 misfire series came up on the meter. I did a little research on here, started with the DIY Seafoam, no luck. So I went on to the next least expensive option...changing out the coils one by one with a new coil and resetting the ECU. Bingo (#2 coil which was the 5th I tried). $50 vs. ~$250.

Thanks for all of the info, great forum...saved my wallet many times already!