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Heres what I do to find which one is dragging: After a 2 mile drive go around to each wheel and smell at 12 o'clock position, if it smells like something burning thats the culprit. 01tl4tl put some good ones there also.
Unless you have a laser thermometer to compare temps.
Heres a description of the IMRC on the TL, I point it out since your having a performance concern and I've seen some threads about the actuator motor failing to open the valve.
My way of testing it would be to WOT then pull over disconnect the actuator motor 2 wire connector at the back of the intake then WOT again and if theres no difference in power theres the problem. The WOT should be 1st gear pulls no need to go to 60mph.
WOT: Wide Open Throttle
Lastly make sure to close the hood properly (Don't ask why I say this)
Oops.
Didn't see there was a second page and i just thought yall got tired of my dumb questions.
So calipers are fine.
Recently did a fresh set of drilled slotted rotors with ceramic brake pads, everything is fine.
looked at the normal tune up items- spark plugs- correct plugs in it? air filter?
egr system cleaned inside intake manifold?
Throttle body air plate cleaned, throttle springs lubed?
O2 sensor?
using bad gas and whatever else was wrong can lead to O2 sensor- front- upstream aka bank 1 sensor, failure. That sends the info to ECU to adjust fuel and timing
use Denso brand- its the oe supplier and best for the car
Available anywhere
have you ckd for codes in the ecu? don't care if cel light or not- ck for codes
parts stores do it for free (except in Ca.)
What about the cat? bang on it with rubber hammer (so you dont dent it)
or ask muffler shop to inspect.
Those with a handheld ($25) laser pointed `temp reader` device can ck for excess temp on cat, indicates clogging
Using the TL as a race car ie: full throttle to redline in lower gears, and on 87 gas = can lead to problems inside the cat
Want a messed up running problem to diagnose = cat!
don't forget to ck the front and rear motor mounts for leakage of fluid and vac- from their failure
Both are fluid filled and vac boosted to stiffen under acceleration
Once you figure out the real problem, spend ~40 dollars on a BOMZ brand crankshaft pulley.(ck ebay for their store-make a lot of billet parts)
Drops the dead weight spinning on the end of crankshaft from 12,,, to under 2 pounds! Talk abut hitting redline quick!! Ask our mega-moderator and major TL modder fsttyms1 (fast times Won) When he finally did this mod, wondered why he had waited so long! it rocks!
I haven't had the time yet.
I'll probably clean out the build up in my intake manifold this weekend.
So i tapped my catalytic converter and there's no crazy rattling or anything, slight rattle but nothing much. I still have a feeling that my cat is clogged, I'll give that a shot this weekend too trying the infared laser and taking the cat out.
This was after trying to diagnose whatever is causing this bs. First I tried out the cat and read readings from the o2 sensors with a live code reader. The first o2 sensor varied quite a bit and the 2nd o2 sensor was rather steady. Seemed fine. Then i got a infrared laser and the temperature in the front of the cat (closer to front end of car) was lower ~190 deg compared to the rear of the cat ~290 deg. (Extremely rough estimates), but still the cat seems to be doing it's job creating heat. Next i started dismantling my intake manifold, under the top cover I could see that the EGR holes were sort of caked with buildup, so i went ahead and scraped that gunk out and whatever buildup i could find. I took off the throttle body and looked through the air flaps and seems pretty clean inside as well. I didn't have time to do a complete cleaning tonight unfortunately. Then I took the EGR valve off, and still wasn't clogged either. I sprayed air through and nothing really came out, seemed like a good consistent flow of air. The EGR itself didn't have any build up really. Sprayed some air intake cleaner and called it a night. When i started it, of course it was rough so i gave some gas: a few minute later VSA, Traction Control, and CEL were on. Gave off 5 codes, P0300 was one; multiple cylinder misfire. Car was running completely fine though. Erased codes and restarted engine and seems completely fine. Lights went off and did a few pulls and still no light. Oh well.
So now I'm pretty lost. What can i do now?
I still plan on fully cleaning my intake manifold and egr (need the gaskets first before i risk doing anything much). I'm still going to fully take off my cat and see if its clogged or not.
finish cleaning the intake manifold egr passage and ports- just shoving stuff thru the top opening caused the false codes as crud hit pistons and the front O2 sensor
MUST remove the manifold from engine
on TB body, flip it over to access Idle Air Control rod (with clogged air slit) and its operating chamber- clean that for sure!
front O2 sensor does all the actual work- it tells the ECU whats coming out of the engine so it adjust fuel air and timing settings - constantly
The front O2 sensor is what wears out
Did you find spec on testing?
HELP!! One of our O2 experts/or had failure= know the reading allowed? probably online if you search~ might be in parts store computer?
the rear- after cat sensor only tells the ECU what is coming out of cat- to verify the cat is working and the correct mix is entering = to get correct readings out.
the CAT can only do so much- if overloaded with whatever wrong mix- its going to get a bad reading on the exit
An exhaust gas probe (smog test machine) is the way to know if that's the issue
Garbage In = Garbage Out- been with us as long as computers!!
also applies to your body and mind, GI=GO!!
stop by a muffler shop who knows how to test the cat without removal.
the temp reading is critical and shows if cat is plugged.
again- need the spec, beyond just what reading you approximated with gauge
There may be a `get it hot drive` needed before test- I don't know, not my area of expertise.
I used to bang on them- if it rattles its bad, still in doubt remove and obviously clogged material will be there
Did this car run 87 octane? I get threads confused in my old age
For the effort to remove the cat, you may as well have a new one sitting there ready to bolt in!
NO you don't need OE cat, there are plenty of good to excellent/performance-hi flow, aftermarket choices for less than an oe unit
Excelerate is a good source of info on exhaust parts
wanting to make sure you and any new ziners understand:
the important part of the EGR cleaning is the passage thru the inside of the manifold, and the ports to each cylinder
It operates/EGR valve opens to allow passage of gasses at all times (except idle and full throttle) recirculating some exhaust gas back into the manifold to mix with fresh air and fuel- to reburn = cuts down on smog.
to give an idea of how bad the crud builds up and adheres to the sides (negates your airflow test) The correct TOOL for the job is a long flex rod (we use a wire coat hanger)
with wire brushes attached- like to clean the outdoor bbq grill, and a razor wire like material too.
That rips the years of old carbon buildup from the material surface fast!
this is much more than remove the first cover (reminder to keep its gasket UP side UP!)
Get to the meat of the system to clean
the egr valve itself should not be dirty- DO LUBE its operating arm with wd or silicone etc
Possible the 2 holes under it show some clogging, but that's only the entry point of the exhaust gasses, then thru the inside of manifold to the other end, and out a big hole- you can work from the big end to poke poke poke with the coat hanger
3-4 cans carb cleaner are needed to soften, loosen and rinse the crud out
Dry manifold well before install
the engine doesn't run well on mix of carb cleaner, crud and gasoline
Lube the throttle return springs and throttle and cruise cables- silicone or wd or Deep Creep (seafoam aerosol)
The hinge for the TB air plate needs a shot of lube too, deep creep is excellent for that job
the TB air plate will clean up with carb cleaner, use a toothbrush if really bad
Get the side edges of the round air plate-(use throttle controls to open plate)
that's important for idle control, and both front and back of the round plate
Wipe up excess runoff before install
I'll definitely try those things out this weekend hopefully. I really hope it'll solve the problem. I really doubt my intake manifold has been fully cleaned yet even with almost 200k miles.
Ok the IMRC is ruled out, Engine is definitely struggling.
I doubt its the 02's since they go open loop on WOT.
Drive the car between 40 and 60mph on the highway you might get a code for the catalytic converter P0420. No need to WOT for this session just drive it normal until the Catalyst Monitor is done ( you should be able to see this in your scanner)
One last thing to check is the throttle cable adjustment, did you verify its fully opening up.
or drive it to a muffler shop for examination and diagnosis!
while looking at throttle cable operation- compare air plate movement to throttle pedal position, CK the roundish part that holds throttle cables in place at TB, its edge tends to break off and can limit throttle action, maybe cause cruise control failure as well
Always worth looking at while inspecting throttle cables
Sorry for not replying. I've haven't really had the time to do much recently.
So recently I've done sea foam through the gas tank and vacuum line and there wasn't really any smoke that came out of my exhaust. I believe i did everything right. Then I've seen the inside of the CAT and seems perfectly fine in there. No broken pieces a nothing clogged. So that basically rules the cat out of the problem.
One thing I am noticing that the throttle cable has quite a bit of play or looseness. How much looseness is too much? It does make sense if the throttle cable was too lose that the car wouldn't be fully accelerating to it's maximum potential which thus causes the slow rpm climb vs normal WOT. How much is too much though? I don't want to constantly rev the engine at idle. The cruise control still works perfectly fine, just to throw that in.
So the reason behind all this is that last night I raced my sister's 2000 TL-P and you guessed it..lost pretty badly. She has no mods what so ever. I am still however considering the throttle cable.
^ The slack should be about half inch as per the "Manuel" but You could tight up a little bit more..
Just enough that it doesn't open the butterfly not even 1mm. You can check it by how the metal guide hits the idle screw on the back of the Throttle Body. Basically open up the butterfly with your hand about half way and let it go, You should hear a metal to metal hit. If you don't = Cable too tight.
I have about 2mm of slack in my cable makes the gas pedal shit loads more responsive.
But I highly doubt is the cause of your issues, as the engine itself is struggling not how your TB is opened up.
Last edited by Skirmich; Mar 11, 2015 at 08:46 PM.
did you ever finish cleaning the egr system inside the intake manifold-
plus clean the TB air plate and IACV while the TB is off the car
ckd the PCV for ball rolls inside?
plugs were newish and correct 8 dollar each NGK? pulled a few for color ck?
Air filter is good and top cover= no broken edges to airbox- all hoses and clamps are tight?
how many miles? maybe its long overdue for a valve adjust
With 2mm of slack what are your rpms at idle in park when your engine is warm?
Any ideas of why it could be struggling?
The slack is still enough for the IACV to keep doing its job.
My Idle RPM are +/- 800rpm when hot. and about 1100rpm when first start.
I cannot really say for sure.. Your issue is a slow start but then the car picks up normally after moving out of stand. It could very well be a clogged cat (Which you say it isn't) or 1st gear is slipping. You don't have any check engine?
Slow start/ slow rpm climb.
Transmission: My father fully rebuilt it when we bought the car (tranny was on the way out already)
I haven't had the time for the full throttle body cleaning.
Spark plugs: NGK Laser Iridium plugs
Air Intake: CAI with a few month old filter (late last year)
Tire pressures: 35 psi (I work at a tire place)
No check engine.
I'll look into the valve adjust.
Thank you guys for the persistence through my issues!
Do you need valve adjustment? You can also perform a compression test to see if you have a leak but I seriously doubt it as you pick up normal speed after 3K RPM which means the engine is delivering power but its not getting transferred to the trans which leads to:
Did you replaced your Torque Converter when rebuild the trans? Sounds like your Turbine might be toasted.
Valves need adjustment only if noisy (As per manual). But I recommend you check them every 100K as tight valves are more of an issue than loose valves.
I asked a friend of mine and he also agrees.. Looks like your Turbine* one way bearing might be broken letting it free to rotate, the function of the turbine* is to create torque at the low end of the engine (where it doesn't produce much power) when the Turbine* doesn't work he says it can create that issue where the engine doesn't move the car at all at low speed or taking off but when the momentum is broken the turbine* gets by-passed and the engine works fine again.
I did mention that i feel like my rpms take awhile to reach redline. I feel like 1st gear the rpms should literally fly. They used to, but now i have the time to look down and think to myself, "whats taking so damn long?" and it gets slower as each gear advances.
I understand this is normal, but the car just takes longer than normal to redline.
Last edited by Brianm97; Mar 12, 2015 at 09:03 PM.
The only safe way to know if your engine is in fact low on power is with a Dyno. But since you know your car you can say its in fact slower but the issue is that there aren't a lot of things that can suddenly robe you of power specially that much power.
I saw the video again and your doing 10 seconds 0-60 which is crazy slow for a TL-S no wonder a TSX is beating you.. I do mid 5 seconds to 60mph..
makes the gas pedal shit loads more responsive. 
specially that much power.