JIGS

Hey guys,
I need your help in troubleshooting this weird issue i am having with my 2001 Acura TL.

I had this a few time earlier, but i ignored it, as it just went away.
But last night, i had bigger trouble.
I went drove from home to Lowes, did some shopping (60 mins), came back, started the car, everything was fine. Then i drove from there to Home Depot, did some shopping (30 mins), and when i came back to start my car, it wouldnt start. it would crank, but would not start. the cranking was also good, but it just wouldnt start. tried for a few minutes, no success.
There was no lights, and the fuel gauge was 2 point above empty.
i got out of the car, and was going to call AAA, when my wife tried to start it, and it started and stall. this happened a few time. then i tried it again, pushing the pedal a bit, and then it started.

i thought the fuel gauge may be off, so i drove directly to the gas station and filled it up. (did not turn off the car while re-fueling).
Then i went to Walmart, turned off the car, removed the key, put it back and started it, and everything was ok. so i went inside, did some shopping (30 mins) and came back and started the car, and it started and stalled. so i pushed the pedal and cranked it and it started, so i drove back home.
Today morning my wife started the car and it was normal.

I am not able to point out what is the problem? fuel pump? fuel filter? any valve?
Any suggestions.

Skirmich

Did you check the small green key on the dash? When your key transponder fails it will make that problem where the car cranks but will fail to start.


Check your Dashboard:
Locate the Green Flashing Key
Open Key on Position II (Ready to Start)
Let the Green Flashing Key flash.
Did it turn off?
YES = Your key is OK
NO = Your key is BAD.

JIGS

Also to add here, in the past i had similar situation. i would go to some place from home, drive there, do my work, get back to the car, and it would start. but it would kind of vibrate, giving a feeling that it would stop but it would not. then as i would drive, it would just drive slowly for a few feet and suddenly jerk, and start driving normally. even if i push the pedal, it does nothing, just drives slowly.

JIGS

Thanks for the response, Skirmich.
I never paid attention that green key light. i should check that next time.
But i think there is some other issue too.

Skirmich

You can have these issues when the TL fails to start:
Key Transponder
ECU Failure
Ignition Failure (All coils go bad)
Fuel Pump Failure or Clogged Fuel Lines


Diagnosing over online will prove quite difficult.

01tl4tl

I would ck the thread on fixing the FPR fuel pump RELAY- broken solder under that board will make it act up like you describe
see DIY section too

do you carry many keys/weight on the key ring?
that wears out the electrical contacts on the back portion of ignition switch = common problem when shuts off while running and comes back on

01tl4tl

fuel filter is a sock on the fuel pickup in tank- not replaceable
Use a fuel cleaner such as seafoam or bg44 to really get every part of the system clean
See the many threads on subject

does it run normal when its running?

01acls

Check your ground cables, if they're ok then check out the thread in the 2g tl "Engine starts up then stalls - 99 102k" page 2. I had the same problem.

MarcDavidoff

I would look towards the fuel pump relay as well

JIGS

Just did the obd scan now and came up with 2 codes.
this is the first time i have done this.
I dont know if these are new or old from previous owner.
P0131 - O2 sensor circuit Low Voltage
P1676 - No Description (Manufacturer controlled code non uniform DTC)

JIGS

No i do not carry many keys or weights 2 small keys, 1 car key and the remote.

JIGS

do i have to remove the fuel filter sock to clean it, or just add something to the fuel? I remember i put some "Lucas Injector cleaner and Fuel conditioner" a couple of times.

yes, it runs normal when it is running. i can drive for miles and miles, and i dont feel a glitch. only the 2 starting issues. it would either not start for some time or it would start and move slowing giving a big jerk with few feet of driving. after that everything is normal.

01acls

If you're not sure clear them and wait for new ones.

Mines threw out false codes... misfire in certain cylinders. False bc the low idle caused the misfire not the other way around. And it only threw codes twice out of many. No code during cold starts.

Did you check out the thread that I mentioned?

01tl4tl

I would start with cleaning the battery and aux ground cables
or
pull the CLOCK fuse located on passenger end of dash or kick panel
after 1 minute reinsert fuse
that's the secret backup power to the ECU and clears all codes- runs a full system self test-
drive a few days and retest for codes

the FPR is definitely something to look at- the thread on that has great pics of the actual solder break and DIY repair technique

note! removing batt neg cable to clean it causes radio security to kick in and need the code to get it back up running
If you don't know the code there are ways to get it- but for now use the clock fuse method of ecu reset- that doesn't effect radio at all

01tl4tl

and follow skirm and marcdavidoff for advice,both really know the TL

JIGS

I did not clear them for now, as i was not sure if i should take it to the mechanic to evaluate those code. i might clear them and wait for the new ones.

I did check that thread, and it has useful information. i will put my point on this threads later on.

JIGS

Are you sure about the battery? because i was able to crank the car without any issues? do you still think it could be the grounding?

The FPR could be an issue, as you mentioned. I checked the TSB-01-001, and the symptoms match. i check the price for the Fuel pressure regulator kit, which is around $500-$700. do i need the whole kit or i should just replace the regulator, if i decide to do that.

Other thing i found in some of the forums, is the O2 sensor issue, which was also picked up by during the OBD2 scan, code P0131.

I dont want to do all the things at once, as i want to target it one by one.

01acls

You should do the check the grounds bc thats simple, basic diagnostic, will eliminate a unknown and Inexpensive.

Make sure your Vin is listed on the TSB 01-001?

Your fault codes... you can clear them after you've recorded them.

JIGS

OK.. i will double check the grounds..

My VIN is not listed in the TSB-01-001, as it it for 2000 TL and 2001 CL, whereas i have a 2001 TL.. but the symptoms are same, so am confused a bit.

What about the o2 sensors? P0131 code?
And should i put seafoam or bg44 in the fuel tank and try? i already used Lucas injector cleaner?

TLer trash

For what it's worth, I replaced the fp regulator on my daughter's 00 tl with the higher pressure one that is listed for an 03 tl for instance. I think her problem is solved. I did not do the ecm. One other person here tried the same, and it didn't work. As others have suggested, do any cleaning and/or maintenance items first. Next find out when your state switches over to summer blend fuel. If you can hold out until you're on summer fuel, and the problem goes away, then you might want to try a regulator. If this is the case, you might have to wait a few weeks after the switch to make sure the gas station has gotten rid of all of it's winter gas, because it's not like they have 100% winter gas on may 31st, and 100% summer gas on june 1st.

JIGS

I am from DFW Texas, which is not listed in the TSB-01-001, so thats the other confusion i have, weather to do the FPR mod or not.

01acls

[QUdon't do the JIGS;15403035]I am from DFW Texas, which is not listed in the TSB-01-001, so thats the other confusion i have, weather to do the FPR mod or not.[/QUOTE]

No don't do the TSB. If you insist at least check the top of your FPR to see if it's mark with a black dot. If it is there's no point.

ReCKeD

iTrader: (2)

i dont mean to hijack thread, as i didnt see reason to make another thread with so many on same topic already

2000 tl 125,xxxmiles (changed plugs, did egr, did coil test)
im having the same issue....
went to this thread as mentioned:

https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...-849862/page2/

and looked over service bulletin and my vin falls under the the number on top but my car has been in florida for 15 years, so i dont see how this occurs. i dont believe they sell winter gas in miami.

should i be looking at the fuel pump relay due to hot weather ?

01acls

??? Did you see the itemized parts list above the TSB on page 2?

ReCKeD

iTrader: (2)

sorry skimmed right past it, and went to the service bulletin.

are you referring to vape canister solenoid,canister,and two O2 sensors ?

01acls

Yes. My car is listed on the TSB too, but those parts fixed the problem.

JIGS

That's my confusion. my car is not listed in the TSB (2001 TL) and i live in Texas, which is not listed in the TSB

01acls

[=JIGS;15403502]That's my confusion. my car is not listed in the TSB (2001 TL) and i live in Texas, whi. is not listed in the TSB[/QUOTE]

There's no confusion. Your car probably was built with the updated ecu/fpr. Thats why is not listed. You still can have the same problem if is not a heak soak problem.

Con you check for the black dot on top of your fpr to confirm or deny?

JIGS

There's no confusion. Your car probably was built with the updated ecu/fpr. Thats why is not listed. You still can have the same problem if is not a heak soak problem.

Con you check for the black dot on top of your fpr to confirm or deny?[/QUOTE]

i will check it today, once i get back home.

Is there a DIY for the o2 sensors, evap canister, etc that you changed. where are these located? i found it in the manual but some photos would be great to have an idea.

I saw you ordered "Vapor caniter vent solenoid". but in the service manual, i found "EVAP Canister vent shut valve" and "EVAP bypass solenoid valve". which one of these did you order/replace.
Thanks

01acls

i will check it today, once i get back home.

Is there a DIY for the o2 sensors, evap canister, etc that you changed. where are these located? i found it in the manual but some photos would be great to have an idea.

I saw you ordered "Vapor caniter vent solenoid". but in the service manual, i found "EVAP Canister vent shut valve" and "EVAP bypass solenoid valve". which one of these did you order/replace.
Thanks[/QUOTE]

Its the Vent Shut valve. According to the original poster he did not change the $23.00 02 sensor. I went ahead and replaced bc its so cheap.

01acls

i will check it today, once i get back home.

Is there a DIY for the o2 sensors, evap canister, etc that you changed. where are these located? i found it in the manual but some photos would be great to have an idea.

I saw you ordered "Vapor caniter vent solenoid". but in the service manual, i found "EVAP Canister vent shut valve" and "EVAP bypass solenoid valve". which one of these did you order/replace.
Thanks[/QUOTE]

Don't know about DIY. You should do a search. I let my mech R&R the parts... $230.00. Not bad.

You need special 02 sensor tool. The hardest thing about 02 sensor is they get rust built up on the threads. Main 02 S is in front of the Catalytic Converter and the secondary is after the Cat on the exhaust. WD40 is your BFF.

The Evap is suppose to be under the car in the right rear area under a panel.

JIGS

this is the photo of the FPR.
Looks like its the new type, with the black dot.

01acls

Thats pretty funny duf!

JIGS

To return to this issue again, this does not happen everyday, and its really random.
The car was running smooth, and there was no issue.

I decided to take it for a vacation. i drove 150 miles, stopped for gas, the car started like normal, no issues. drove another 150 miles, reached the hotel, checked in, took the room key, and tried to start the car again, it would not start. cranking, but not starting. tried it a few times and eventually it did, jerking, and the rpm not responding even with full throttle. after a few seconds, everything is normal.

On my way back, in the afternoon, i got stuck in traffic after driving, really bad, almost like 10 miles. it was like bumper to bumper traffic. the car was running ok, but after sometime, midway through the traffic, the engine started to make some noise. i looked at the temperature, and it was 2 point off to reach "H". It was a Hot day too. So i thought i should let the car cool down, and i decided to park the car on the side wait for a while.

After like 15-20 mins, i tried to start the car, it would not start. And this time it was not going to start. i could almost hear my battery die, trying to start the car (another 15-20 mins). So i gave up and called AAA. This time i had the code reader in the car, so i read the code, and it was "P1399-Random Misfire". Towing was on their way so i waited some time, and decided to try again, and it started. But again, with a jerking effect, and rpm not responding initially. i started to drive on the shoulder, (still huge traffic on all the lanes), but i did not want to stop. i kept driving for a few miles, until the traffic vanished, and i drove as fast as i could, safely. (70mph)

Drove 150 miles, stopped for gas, but did not turn off the car, as it was night, and i did not want any more trouble. drove another 150 miles, reached home. EVENTUALLY.
Since that day, my wife is driving the car, locally, a few miles everyday, no issues.
Now my question is, whats the real issue here, and what should i repair/replace/fix.

Sorry for the long story, but i wanted you guys to understand the whole sequence of events.

JIGS

Since the first time this issue has come up, i have read 3 different codes each time.

P0131 - O2 sensor circuit Low Voltage
P1676 - FPTDR Signal Line Malfunction.
P1399 - Random Misfire.

As per 01acls, he changed the evap canister solenoid,evap canister,and two O2 sensors, and the issue is fixed. but his car VIN was listed in the TSB-01-001, but mine is not. So i dont know for sure if that will fix the issue. He also asked me to the check the FPR (as per the TSB-01-001), and its the new type, with black dot (see photo above).
So i am back to square one, trying to find the actual root cause for this random issue.

need more input from you guys.
Thanks,

01tl4tl

have you looked at the common problem of fuel pressure (or pump) RELAY,
the board it sits on has bad solder connections on back side
remove, inspect, and repair,,probably in our diy!

JIGS

No. i dont know about that common problem.
Is it discussed anywhere. (a link would be good or some photos would be good to identify it)

01tl4tl

When I say something is a common problem- its on azine for sure--I simply parrot what I learn here,,,braaaakkk!! FPR FPR braaaaak

search for fuel pressure relay, or scroll, its been discussed recently

did you look in the diy section? I don't guarantee its there, but somewhere in this gen2 TL forum are pics of the problem and the simple repair

iirc its the relay panel by drivers left knee,,everything important is marked

Who has done the FPR solder repair? help us out !

01tl4tl

try an outside search engine for fuel pump relay + 200(whatever your year/model) + acurazine.com
that tends to find post with 3 letter combo like FPR that ours doesn't

My apologies re: common problems- I didn't see you are new here and may not know your way around. We get the same questions over and over sometimes~

musiclevelz5

He could also spend alittle extra money and just get a new one. But soldering is part of the fun!!

If interested in a new one here is the part number!

39400-S84-003 Main Relay Assembly

Amazon has it in stock for 54 bucks.