mrcpu

#1) Does this kit: (" ) look like the set of solenoid/tranny stuff I need for my 2002 TL 3.2? I just turned 105k, unsure of the maintenance, although the car was in beautiful shape at 76k when I bought it last year (and still is except for the small dent in the door from the stupid deer running in to the side of it), so was going to swap transmission fluid with some redline, and was thinking (knock on wood), to replace these since I don't seem to currently have any transmission issues.



#2) I love the car, it's great, but I'm wondering if I'm doing more harm than good, when coming off the interstate at say 75 on the ramp, I usually slip the shifter over to the left, and then drop to 4, then 3, then 2 and let the engine drag slow me down rather than using the brakes. Old motorcycle habit I guess. Usually the 3-2 shift is at 40-ish. Is this hurting anything?

Skirmich

#1 = Pressure switches aren't really user replaceable items they fall under the "If it works, don't fix it" replacing those wont do anything if the trans is in working order so you are just wasting your cash.. They also don't wear out, they just clog and rarely fails.

#2 That is called Engine Braking and it does generate an unnecessary amount of stress to your transmission and heat unless you are going down hill engine braking is not recommended Specially if you engine break until 2nd.. Use your Brakes those are cheaper than a 3K bucks trans rebuild or a 1.5-2K AV6 Swap.. Leave engine brake for a steep downhill and generally low speed only.

TLZINE99

YES, using the sportshift mode harms the longetivity of our weakazz transmission. I would not recommend using it at all.

3.2TLc

Welcome Mrcpu !!!
If ya bought the car at 76k, chances are that it's now due for the T-belt servicing. Don't worry about
the solenoids until you have issues with the tranny. However, clean fluid will help prolong the tranny's life.
So, perform a simple drain and fill using Honda DW1 fluid for best results.

The Acura doesn't like being driven like a motorcycle, so leave that to your 2 wheeled toys.

Check out the "DIY" sticky for common problems and fixes for our TL's.
Things like new NGK plugs, valve adjustment, cleaning the TB intake & EGR passageways, and checking suspension components are the things to now be concerned with at your TL's age and mileage.

NBP04TL4ME

^+1. Use your brakes that's what they were designed for! Brakes are a whole lot cheaper to replace than a tranny any day.

rjheiss

I think your best bet is replacing the fluid with DW1 (nothing else is acceptable) and the external filter. Let the car shift itself. The computer is smarter than both of us.

Skirmich

^ Not true as proven by my Original Design Trans Rebuild with over 115K using SS ONLY 24/7@365..
And God Knows I want this trans to die so I can swap my AV6 Already..


Downshifting with SS for Engine Brake does harm the Trans as Engine Brake put a huge load on the Trans..
Using SS for Upshifting and Sport Downshifting while Spirited Driving doesn't do harm as my Transmission is still working as new (sigh).

TLZINE99

fer sure, driving like granmah shifting @ 3k-4k rpm with SS mode wont hurt shit.

Skirmich

Nope I usually more than often do VTEC, Actually I do so in a daily basis! just returned from the General Store =
Hit VTEC Twice so that its twice north of 5.2K RPMs in a span of 2 kilometers...
So I drive Spirited all Week Long in SS.


Bare in Mind that if you Drive in D5-D4 you are usually below 3K RPM all Day as per ECU, I'm in North of that always. So SS > Full AUTO.

I do things in a daily basis with my TL-S some people do in Months.
Like I Said: "And God Knows I want this trans to die so I can swap my AV6 Already.."

3.2TLc

^^^ This only proves how some folks can go forever and others have crap luck, go figure !!!

01tl4tl

if you want the trans to remain smooth shifting= use Honda dw1- a new fluid introduced a few years ago - Hondas fluid used/approved for us older cars too
Redline makes harder shifts, and requires a mix of race and street fluids

if it were an easy afternoon of popping a cover and replacing the clutch disc, I would say play to your hearts content
but its a car not a bike, so drive it nice, be especially nice to 3rd gear clutchpack and its low flow of cooling oil = downshifts at high rpm strain them

its time to get on the water pump timing belt job, a weekend diy if you have skills and tools, compressor helps but not mandatory, figuring most riders also tinker with tools

Skirmich

INDEED! I swear that if I didn't have the AV6 trans my Current Trans would have gone belly up months ago....

mrcpu

Hmph, I guess you're right, brakes are cheaper than tranny's. Didn't really think about it, used to the wet clutch in the bike. And here I was all excited for my one usage of SS mode...

Seabright

Only 76k when you bought it last year? Sounds like a nice find. It's worth finding out the warranty recall/replacement history with the tranny. You can get that from Acura. You could be riding on a recent (by mileage) factory rebuild. A fluid change with DW-1 is cheap insurance and will make for silky smooth shifts. Then it's up to the tranny gods.

At 76k in 12 years, the car likely wasn't drive very hard. So fluids and timing belt service are first steps/

3.2TLc

Mrcpu's TL:
While the low mileage on an older car is always a good selling point, it's good to know how those miles were actually put on. Sometimes, many of the cars with low mileage on them may have been driven primarily in stop and go city type driving or short runs. This kind of driving is much more demanding, then a car which is driven on longer trips with less stops....IMO. Unless you receive documented PM service repairs for the car, ya really don't know if it's been neglected or not.

Skirmich

^^ Give that man a Cookie!


76K on City Driving? = 200K Highway Miles.. Low City Mileage is far worse than a car that has 300K of pure Highway Miles.

Lots of Highway Miles are nothing to these engines.. I swear that if we only used the J32s for Highway we could hit 1 Million Miles No Problem.. The Mix between Highway and City is what F* Up the Engine.

When buying an old car, Always be suspicious of Low Mileage.... If that car was used a commute car always, That's Heavy Use.

Mkarl

This is for the two Pressure switches only - not solenoids.

Pressure switches do wear out - They are a mechanical switch - a simple "metallic spring disk" - I have measured 5 year old pressure switches (mostly highway miles) and compared them to new pressure switches on a test bench setup, 4th P-switch was almost to 3rd P-switch values. They DO DRIFT WITH AGE, 3rd and 4th pressure switches control clutch timing overlap and therefore clutch pack wear - especially 3rd gear clutch pack - they drift high, 3rd switch drift causes 2nd and 3rd clutch pack pressure to hold on longer (overlap) and to a higher clamp pressure during a 2 - 3 shift. No if's no maybe's. If someone seriously thinks that pressure drift is unimportant then ask yourself why Honda made different pressure switches with "slightly" different pressure settings? and Honda warn you to never get them mixed up.

They do not throw a code until they mechanically fail (open or short), if they clog then you have even bigger problems as the amount of clutch pack debris flowing in the ATF that's needed to clog these P-switches would indicate that your transmission was not long for this life.

You won't notice a small drift but it still causes accelerated clutch pack wear, over time you slowly chew up 3rd gear clutch packs. Replacing these two small switches is a 1/2 hour job - one of them a 5 minute job. 3rd gear P-switch also effects P to D engagement time along with 2-3, 3-2 shifts.

Skirmich

^ You must also replace ball joints every 7500miles and Shocks every 15K too right? Because they do wear out of spec too.

And IF you were right then my 12yr old transmission should be totaled by now since it's running stock Solenoids with over 200k on them with no issues.. What you are talking about are tolerances and the trans isn't a space rocket that will fail if the tolerances are out of spec.. Biggest hiccup you will get are slow or jerky shifts...

I repeat there is no reason to change old Solenoids unless they fail. no brand that ever existed will tell you to replace old Solenoids because those don't wear out to the point of making the trans useless.... People with 1 million miles agree.

If you are that OCD as to replace Solenoids you might as we'll replace the whole car because it doesn't feel as brand new after you drive out of the dealership.

Mkarl

[QUOTE=Skirmich;15122347
And IF you were right then my 12yr old transmission should be totaled by now since it's running stock Solenoids with over 200k on them with no issues.. What you are talking about are tolerances and the trans isn't a space rocket that will fail if the tolerances are out of spec.. Biggest hiccup you will get are slow or jerky shifts...

I repeat there is no reason to change old Solenoids unless they fail. no brand that ever existed will tell you to replace old Solenoids because those don't wear out to the point of making the trans useless.... People with 1 million miles agree.

If you are that OCD as to replace Solenoids you might as we'll replace the whole car because it doesn't feel as brand new after you drive out of the dealership.[/QUOTE]


QUOTE from the previous post:

"This is for the two Pressure switches only - not solenoids."

What did I not make clear?

3.2TLc

With over 10 years of use, along with the constant exposure to wear and tear......any moving part will tend to show some effects of it's age over time. The extreme elements of temperature, internal crud and corrosion do alter the ideal working function of parts such as solenoids, switches, sensors and connectors....IMO.

01tl4tl

want to make a 10+ year old car run better? clean all ground connections! there are several more than just the battery neg cable, and having weak/dirty grounds effects all the sensors feeding the ecu,,, which runs the cars engine, trans etc

garbage in =garbage out, its the same ol story
stupid computers!

Mkarl

On the subject of Preventive maintenance and in this case the Auto Transmission.

While we agree there are numerous internal (and some external) parts that cause problems or driveability issues as they age.

My focus is on the simple things that we can do and have a known impact on the longevity of the transmission and in particular those items that can be easily serviced and preferably at a lower overall cost to the owner than ignoring them.

Regular ATF changes are an obvious starting point, particularly when using an inferior fluid that ages quickly with heat and use. One overlooked problem with ATF is the change in Viscosity (HOT) as it deteriorates. My current testing with various ATF external cooler configurations and TC/ATF exit pressure in and through the external cooler line circuit highlights this - along with one of the identified design/flaws and age related issues that can contribute to TC failure in stop start traffic.

The second is the identified, published and investigated - by various transmission rebuilder associations - problem with 3rd and 4th pressure switches. Again relatively low cost items that are as easy to replace as a sparkplug and only have to be serviced every 5 years or so.

BTW, this condition was also highlighted when investigating another design flaw in the 5AT valve body that causes extended 2nd and 3rd clutch pack overlaps (partial engagement) with higher than normal pressure during forced 4-2 downshifts if the throttle is eased-up causing a 2-3 shift to start. Although it's still apparent in normal 2-3 upshifts but to a lesser degree. Obviously this is the last thing you want in the 5AT as Honda already abuse 3rd clutch packs due to flawed shift logic in a failed attempt at slush box shift feel. Once again confirmed by various published clutch pack pressure circuit graphs and data.

And again I agree with Skirmich that AT Solenoids don't need replacing unless there is an obvious fault and IMHO are an unwarranted expense if you do.

The 3rd item is the external transmission filter: Again because of an identified flaw in the internal cooler TC circuit, any resistance to ATF flow in the external cooler circuit (Trans filter, cooler/warmer) can cause ATF flow to internally bypass the TC and cooler at very low RPM with HOT ATF - as in stop start traffic while stationary.

Since we don't know exactly what years and variations of the 5AT are effected by these and other identified conditions, IMHO its wise to err on the side of caution, just doing these 3 simple things can make a huge difference and at least give you a fighting chance at extending transmission life.

The last is to adjust driving style to suite conditions and 5AT design flaws, but that opens up another can of worms.

To add to the sound advice by 01tL4tl. Every few years I also take the time to unplug every connector that I can on the engine and (particularly the transmission) and clean them with a quality Electronic switch cleaner/lubricant. Another simple PM procedure if you are careful with the connectors and unplug them correctly.

In the end, what you choose to do to your transmission is obviously completely up to you - you can (and some will) disagree with everything I have investigated/researched/tested - just make your decision an informed one!

3.2TLc

With the known issues of our weak 2nd Gen tranny's, any PM that can be done at a reasonable cost would be money well spent IMO. Much cheaper than replacing a sick tranny down the road.

joemooch

Much of this discussion applied to my TL...and I am soliciting advice.
My TL has been lightly driven and garaged always, using Mobil1 Synth. I recently added a TruCool ATF with the Magnefine and DW1 although I've experienced no tranny problems so far. That may be due to the '99 trans which reportedly has fewer problems.
So I've been struggling with the Timing Belt change for several years, since it's 8 years overdue! Also, none of the other engine rubber has been replaced as all belts and hoses appear and feel substantially without wear.
Our Florida climate eats tires and batteries, in spite of being garaged. It seems that the belts and hoses should deteriorate too.
Am I on borrowed time? Should I just DIY the TB kit, plus PS & A/C belts, camshaft seals, plug tube seals, and upper and lower rad hoses? Or other?
Any comments appreciated.
Joe

TLZINE99

Go DIY if u wanna save big bucks, just got to have the right tools and patience all these work u mention will cost u at least $1,000 - $1,500 parts and labor @ your local independent shop or @ acura dealer price will be higher.

3.2TLc

It appears as though you have a nice low mileage TL with a good tranny.

With that being said, your PM is way overdue and if you want to keep the car for a few more years.....DIY the items mentioned if you're able. The T-belt kit, along with belts and hoses will be less than $400 for all necessary parts. Money well spent, IMO. If ya need to have a shop do the work, figure on at least about $300 for labor......as everything is already torn apart and is easy to replace at the time.
Do it now, for peace of mind !!!