Never heard of it. As an engineer, I wouldn't use it. Here's why. Multi-viscosity mineral oils of 5w-anything start with a 5 weight oil - sewing machine oil. They then fortify it with polymers called viscosity index (VI) improvers. This gets it to act like a 20 weight at higher temps where thinning occurs. Problem is, over time and in high bearing load areas (such as cam lobes and main bearings)these polymers break down and you are left with very little protection. Mobil 1 is better but still has VI's.

I use 5w30 Redline. It has very little VI needed, and stays a 30 weight in the bearings. It also has better pumpability and stays free-flowing below a 5w20.

For my money, I would be very hesitant to use a 5w20 in mt TL-S when it arrives next month!

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Rage On!
2000 TL w. Comptech header/exhaust
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17
Fender lips rolled

TL-S on order: Silver/NAV

 

I just purchased a 2002 TL-S and learned by reading the owners manual that the ONLY acceptable oil viscosity is SAE 5W-20. I don't think Mobil 1 comes in this viscosity. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Try Pep Boys, Kragen, Auto Zone.

 

The reduction for VI is exactly why Acura is specifying the SAE 5W-20 because it is in narrow viscosity range and would need less additives that can cause problems such as deposits from the burning of the additives. I can't find any oil with this viscosity. Does anyone know of a brand that is sold in SAE 5W-20?

 

Motorcraft 5W-20 is sold at major outlets like Wal-Mart and K-Mart. You'll be seeing more brands selling this grade because of the move to improved fuel economy with the next specification upgrade (API "SL"). Because of the need for improved CAFE standards and with improved engine design tolerances, you can safely use 5W-20 motor oil now. The oil consists of high quality base oil (sometimes a full or part synthetic), a multi-functional additive package, and viscosity modifiers that all work in tandem to improve engine performance and keep it protected. Suffice it to say it's not like "sewing machine oil". Hope this helps.

 

You didn't understand my post - multiviscosity oils break down, and you are left with very thin oil in critical wear areas- Saying that reducing VI by going to a super-thin oil ignores the wear issue. Mfrs. are going for high CAFE standards - I don't care about that, and I am guessing others won't either - we want our engines to last past the warranty period!

I studied tribology at engineering school, and have a vast library of info on lubrication technology - I do not know any engineers who would use a 5w20 in their cars, except perhaps if they lived in Arctic climates.

Even with the current 5w30, the table in the Owner's Manual clearly indicates 10w30 be used for hot climates.

I am voting with my wallet - 5w30 RedLine for me - if I used petro oil I'd use 10w30.

 

Oh, I forgot another issue you "experts" missed. The current API standard has a drastic reduction in phosphates - the manufacturers lobbied the API for this because it extended the life of catalytic converters so they would have reduced emissions-related warranty claims. The problem is that phosphate compounds (specifically zinc dithiophosphate)are the best anti-wear compounds known, and protech precisely in the areas the low visco oils don't. This is one reason some of the better syn oils never went to the last few API S* classifications - they are more interested in their customers than their bottom line.

My point is that one cannot always depend on the manufacturer's to look out for your interest - luckily you have the Rage Man to set you straight on this topic.

If others want to use 5w20, be my guest.

 

Road Rage - You studied Tribolgy in school, I do it for a living. I'll take my credentials over yours in this matter, but rather than this becoming an flame war let me say one thing. If you stick with a 3000 mile oil change interval, you will not have a problem with 5W-20 oil from a machanical breakdown or performance standpoint. It's cheap insurance. At current 0.08 phos levels, the amount of ZDDP in an API SJ (and soon to be SL) oil is more than adequate to protect to 3000-5000 miles, and the amount of VI will not breakdown (shear) to a level that the vis will be out of grade. There's no need to spread fear when not warranted or based on fact. I've got millions of dollars of ASTM engine testing and field data to back me up. If, however, you talk about extended drains (like some people I know that think once a year or 10,000 miles is enough), that's asking for trouble.

 

Well, we will have to disagree, as you have your expert sources, I have mine. We all have a love for our cars, though.

Most oil change intervals people use exceed 3000 miles, as do the recommended service intervals (even for severe) of every major engine manufacturer. Some intervals go way beyond that, and even the ones that use some sort of oil algorithm or test do not check for ZDP levels, usually only TBN.

So the possibility of shear back is real, especially in engines run hard or at high temps.

I do have historical precedents:
1) 1980's - Chrysler recommends 5w30, then has numerous oil failures, recants. Oil takes 5 years for Chrysler to change its de-rating of 5w30.
2) 1970's - GM okays 10w40 as one of the first multi-vis for extended temperature use. Rash of engine failures causes them to go back to single grade or small-point spread multis

I could cite many more instances where the industry made recommendations that turned out to have a negative effect later.

3) Re ZDP - others I know who make a living in the industry disagree strongly with your contention that current ZDP is adequate for longest service life - and I want more than adequate - I want extraordinary protection.

KMCobra, most of the people in this Forum run their cars hard - many also lease and probably don't care if they ran Break Free in their engines. My post was directed at those who want their cars to last and drive hard - perhaps I should have made that clearer than I did.

The manufacturers set oil standards from a variety of perpsectives - MPG, emissions, lifetie of downcycle components (such as the catalytic), and make recommendations that are at best a compromise. I do not care to compromise with my engine.

BTW, most racers use at least a 10w30, usually higher. A 5w20 would give them real HP advantages - if a 5w20 as formulated today can provide all the benefits of a 10w30 and no negatives, do you think they will switch to it?

 

Rage - Not talking about racing, that's a different animal. A very, very small percentage of people, possibly even a small percentage of people who post here, have anything close to the lubrication needs of a racecar. My contention is that for 99.9% of the people out there, if you follow the manufacturer's service manual (at a minimum) and use the motor oil they call for (even if it's the dreaded 5W-20 sewing machine oil you referred to), they'll get the life out of the engine it was designed to deliver. The quart of 5W-20 API SJ oil you can buy today is better than any oil from previous generations, and the next generation will be evne better. The nice thing for the consumer is it still costs a buck a quart and represents the cheapest insurance policy for your engine's life. Go talk to the Europeans, they are getting ready to start using 0W-20's! Better living through chemistry!!

 

The TL-S owners manual does NOT list ANY other viscosity other than SAE 5W-20 regardless of temperature. The only synethic recommended by OEMs is Mobil 1. I want ot stay with synethic if I can find the specified viscosity.