From a personal standpoint my transmission has operated flawlessly and I am at over 10,000 miles. What about people who have been through two or more transmissions with only low mileage? You've got to figure something is going on here and not hastily blame Honda for bad transmissions. Our cars were never meant to be driven hard like race cars day in and day out. People who post on this board are skewed towards enthusiasts who demand more out of their car. I'll bet for the vast majority of TL owners transmission issues will never come up. Just my two cents worth.

 

Although a good THEORY...it is totally unfounded. I know 20 year olds who drive like 80 year old grandmas, as well as people who beat the he!! out of their car and they are all in the same boat. Dead tranny.

One thing that has yet to be proven is the ratio of SS users to replaced trannys. Someone posted something about a possible computer problem in the auto tranny and that by using SS, you eliminate it. Who knows if it's true...who knows what's true.

 

Agreed... I think most of the people on here do not drive crazy, and i think that no one on here drives outside the limitations of the stock tranny. That's just silly to say that the car was not built to be driven aggressively....of course it was. How else could you go from LA to NY in time for a date?? What I mean is that Acura is marketing this car as a sporty car, therefore the tranny should handle some sport driving. I don't think anyone on here is abusing their car enough to make their tranny fail, nevermind that about 15 trannys have gone....... Plus, there's already a pretty good answer on the tranny problems from Acura on the CL board...take a look...

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Tranny

 

Maybe this would help.

I drive crazy, redline at least 40% of my daily driving. Have 54k miles on my car. Never really used SS, since SS in 4spd tranny really really sucks.

I had 3 diffrent trannies on my car. Stock then replaced at 40k miles then replaced at 52k miles.

The last one is holding good, but I think is going soon.

 

I have 24000 miles on my 200TL. I drive my car pretty hard...alot harder than 90% of the people on the roads in San Diego. I probably redline ~20% of the time while accelerating. I drive in SS ~50% of the time. especially in traffic. I use it to downshift alot. Not a single problem with my car except the seat belt and moonroof rattles, which got fixed.

Are there many 2000s with tranny problems?

 

A smooth transmission allows a lot of clutch slippage, a Valve Body recalibration may be in order.

 

We don't have a manual tranny, so we do not have a clutch.

 

All automatic transmissions use clutch plates. And I agree with MedicSonic, we need a valve body recalibration for firmer shifts.

Firmer shifting = less clutch slippage.

Jim

 

They called me at work today and said that the main problem with our transmissions is a "Tapered Roller Bearing" that was going bad. I have no idea what this is, but he said they have since redesigned this part. - from the CL Board

H-m-m-m. I am going to see what Acura will say if I ask for a discount on the extended warranty!

:-jon (with the dead tranny)

 

True, however you then make a trade-off for higher shock to the gears and drive train.

I'm not convinced that the clutch packs are screwed up. I keep hearing about 1st gear slips (1st gear and 1st gear hold clutches), 2nd gear slipping, and 3rd gear slipping. I really wonder if the clutches could be going bad in all 3 gears (and different sets, in different gears depending on person). If you look in Helms, you will see that the increase the number of disks as the torque increases with the lower gear ratio. However, people are having slip failures in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears.

BTW -- I would like to see a switch to dynamically adjust the shift profiles (Sport, Normal, Soft). I believe that Soft is the current setting...

 

Boy, I looked around and the only place that uses a "Tapered Roller Bearing" in the transaxle is in the differential carrier -- it has nothing to do with the transmission.

IMO -- more bunk from Acura. "I don't know" would be preferable to more BS.

(The reason I am jumping all over this statement from Acura is... at least 3-4 other people have gotten completely different answers and/or a number of vendors, mechanics, and others have said 1-5).


Let's check out the current mythology:

1) It's a seal in the transmission...
2) It's dirty bits of grit getting stuck in the transmission (comment)
3) The shift solenoids are bad
4) The "good" transmissions have a new part # (yea, so why do they still fail)
5) Tapered Roller Bearings (that are NOT used in the transmission)


Comment: When the correct “answer” comes along, it should at least “jibe” with the types of failures that are being seen on the TLS/CLS!

 

I wish they would just 'fess up. I stopped by the dealership a fews days ago, and the service manager was out. I asked about my tranny status, and the guy that was there said, "We don't know yet, but it should not be that long. The TL-S transmissions are easier to get than one for a regular TL."

WHOA!

What does this mean?

a) Is there a difference between an 02TL and an 02TLS tranny?
b) Are there that many going bad that there is a pattern for returns (on year 2002 cars???)
c) Why is there no "shock", pretend or otherwise, when a major component goes bad on a 6 month old $35,000 car?

Something is not right. WayneG from Park Avenue has said that he does not know (and I trust him), my service manager was the one with the seal story, and I am very concerned that the new transmission will fail in the future.

I had planned on keeping this car AT LEAST 200,000 miles, that's why I spent the bucks on the mods. My 89 Maxima went 240,000 miles and never even needed a muffler, let alone a tranny.

Was it stupid of me to expect an Acura to last as long as a Maxima?

I am wondering if I should hammer the crap out of the new tranny (after it is broken in) to see if it will fail before the warranty runs out.

This is VERY annoying.

:-jon

 

Interesting point NSXNEXT.

I was thinking something alone those lines as well. I notice weaker shifts if I leave it in Auto mode. It took me a while because I rarely drive with it in Auto mode. I almost always shift it myself manually from 1-2-3 and then when I'm in 4th I leave it alone. Unless I'm on the highway and then I put it in 5th.

I've had mine since March and it still shift fine when I do it myself.

Also, it could be a design problem and the redesign is so costly for them to do it in this generation they will wait until next to offer a newly designed tranny. And having been in the automotive business I'll tell you this is not a far fetched thought.

RUF

 

Actually, while the tapered roller bearing is not a specific component of the transmission, it's function can negatively impact it. Remember, anything connected to the drivetrain can cause problems for another component of the drivetrain. And the more closely one part is connected to another part the more impact it will have. So consider that the bearings in the transaxle start to fail and then negative loads for which the transmission is not designed to handle and voila, the tranny starts to fail.

So anything is possible and that would explain the various reports from those "close" to being in the know.

RUF

 

Comment:

Sure, anything is possible...

However, if the differential carrier were messed up it would increase the load on the transmission (kind of like driving harder) and make a ton of noise. If you look in the Helms, please explain how the increased loading would KILL a transmission. This is akin to saying that people who have been driving uphill will have blown transmissions. Sorry, I just don't buy that "story". (On the other hand, if you know of people – with blown trannies – that said they had to floor the car to budge it, you’ve made quite a point. BTW – slipping doesn’t count. I’m talking about THAT feeling you get if you left the parking brake on!

The differential is about as removed from the problem as I can image. If people had complained of bearing sounds (grinding, and other nasty sounds), I could sure see this fitting the problem

Also, the "horses mouth" -- ACURA, has told me a few things as gospel (3rd level engineers) that turned out to be total BS -- hence, my comment about their just saying "We don't really know" or "We can't say".



In lieu of a survey of whose trannies have gone, a survey that asked a few questions like:

1. Has your transmission failed -- at what mileage?
2. Do you drive like grandma?
3. Do you ever use SS?
4. Any modification?

Comment -> Describe the behavior of any "strange" behavior and/or noises prior to transmission failure *and* describe the failure. (Any comments on gear slip and in what gear would be useful.)


IMO -- More data could NOT hurt...

 

Counter question:

Do you know what a drivetrain is and how all the parts co-exist?

Do you have and real world automotive mechanical background?

I can say yes to both.

So don't buy that either.

RUF

 

RUF clear your PM (Private Messages) So I could send you one. Thanks.

 

YES!

YES, but I didn’t know that was a prerequisite for any discussion among the members here.

Are you saying that you know the answer for sure? Are you saying that a “mechanical background” gives you Godhead status?

I'm sorry that our difference of opinion now has to be treated as “a who has more experience, bigger brainpan, etc” -- in lieu of a healthy exchange of information.

I would ask that you look at the diagrams of the tranny, PCM, and related systems in Helms, if you care to.

On the other hand, I would love to tell you how many times I've had work done by people with "real world automotive backgrounds" and they made mistakes... People, as in all of us, make mistakes. I hope you're not saying that experience and a degree (or related background) is some kind of guarantee that a person will be infallible. By your rational, the Challenger should have never crashed *and* it shouldn't have taken Richard Feynman (using o-rings and a glass of ice cold water) to prove to some pretty smart NASA and Thiokol people (with plenty of experience and post grad degrees) that space shuttles shouldn't fly when there is ice on them.

 

I hate anecdotes, but I have had 3 TL's. all modded, and no tranny problems.


However, I have done one thing to all of them within the first 5000 miles:

I drained the tranny fluid and refilled with Honda Z1 ATF FROM A SEALED BOTTLED STORED UPSIDE DOWN OVERNIGHT.

This ensures that the additives, especially anti-wear additives, get into the transmission. With factory fills and dealer fills, you cannot be sure, since they use 55 gal (or more) drums that may have sat for a while. Colloids settle out over time.

This make be totally nuts, but it is as good as anything else I have seen on this subject, including anything froma dealer.

Tapered roller bearing, indeed.....I agree with others that have said NO info is better than BS! If I had a dime for every absolute piece of baloney I have have been told at a dealership, I could have a spare tranny sitting in the garage waiting for the Big Sleep!

One of the best was when my 1990 Eclipse GSX had a main seal leak from day one. The dealer rep saw my maintenance sheet, and saw that I had changed the oil every 2000 miles. He said that was the3 cause "because the engine and transmission need to get friendly" and changing the oil too much "messes things up".

So it was my fault that engine oil caused transmission gear lube to leak. What a jackass.

I sued under Virginia Lemon Law and won back all my $$.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I believe 100% that these tranny problems have nothing to do with driving behavior. I (and I'm sure the same goes for everyone else) have not been driving this TLS any differently than any other car I have owned. If anything, I haven't been giving it the gas as much as my 98 Accord V6 because I just don't need to -- it doesn't take much input for the TLS to get up and go. In the 100s of thousands of miles I have driven, I've never had one transmission problem. And now I have 2 go out in less than 27000 miles. Please.

 

Agree!!!

 

You can say that again. I gave up that career because I couldn't make enough money at it. Not because I wasn't any good. I just wasn't the type to screw people. I took what ever time it took to fix it. It also didn't please the shop foreman and service manager. When they wanted me to "flatrate" more I told them to "screw themselves". Well they fired me soon after that.

I thank them every day for that because it made me change careers and I really did love working on cars.

Anyway - no probs on this end. Just watch the winkies next time. They are supposed to indicate someone is busting your chops.

RUF

 

Interesting points and worth considering.

I'll have to do that and see if it works if it's not too late. Already 8 months old, but low miles. (7100) And cheap to do too.

RUF

 

just my thought but perhaps the reason the tranny keeps failing in the type s may be due to the fact that acura didnt make any changes to the regular tl transmission when they bumped up the HP and TORQUE....my guess is that half asses it and figured that our transmission can handle it, but those with tranny problems...do you guys have any mods, such as cai, headers, exhaust, cus if you think about it...tl-p tranny is rated at 225 hp and with the type s they bumped it to 260 perhaps with the same tranny thinking it can handle it....but now with the mods we can be pushing it to around 290-310 hp...and that could be the reason....??? just my thought for those with tranny problems please list your mods so we can see if it has anything to do with it.....

 

I would also love to know about any mods, driving styles, etc.

I was looking at the tranmission diagrams in the Helms (again) and there is at least one difference that I found regarding the CLS vs. the CL (I am not sure about the TLS vs TL, as I don't have the Helms for them):

On page 14-209 of the 2001 CLS Helms manual, they have a picture (exploded diagram) of the 1st/1st-hold/2nd Clutch. There is a note that shows the "Type S" models getting 6 CLUTCH DISKS and 6 CLUTCH PLATES. The Non S version gets 5 each (in lieu of the 6 for the "Type S").

Has anyone (with "slipiping problems") had a dealer check the “Line” and 1st through 5th clutch pressures as listed in the "Pressure Tests" section (on page 14-128 & 14-129) in the 2001 Helms CLS manual?

 

RUF: I notice that my double quotes, hyphens, and other symbols are getting quoted back (in your replies) as question marks. I looked for winkies, but didn't find any. Could you tell me what platform, OS, and browser you’re using?

 

I noticed your comment about this before and was considering doing this at my next dealer stop.

Did you do a full exchange (pressure flush equivalent/iterative process)?

OR

Did you just do the 2.7-liter "change"?


How often do you replace your ATF fluid after the pre-5000 mile change?

TIA

 

Damn, that's it!!! It's my aftermarket Momo shift knob that's screwing up my tranny!! It is afterall connected to the transmission itself. Or maybe it's the stickier tires I put on. It's got to be one of those since I don't have any other mods, other than the new transmissions.

 

Those darn shift knobs will do it all the time. (I thought changing the shift knob would void the warranty?

:-jon

 

The tranny failure have been discussed over the v6accord.com board, too. Apparently there is a large number of V6 Accords' tranny failures as well.

Anyways, a member mentioned that automatic transmission biggest enemy (in general) is excessive heat. Excessive heat will break down the chemical chain the ATF prematurely and may lead to tranny failure. Based on this, some members installed tranny cooler on their Accords. Some of them claim to have slightly quicker, firmer shift quality after the installation.

It is unclear that Accord and Type-S trannies are running too hot, but installing a tranny cooler is surely a way to safeguard the trannies.

Check this page for more detail of the install.

My $0.02.

 

I'm using Win98 and Netscape 6.1.

I know that 6.x has some problems and it hoses me up from time to time. Especially if the message I'm opening has and attached image.

Anyway - sounds like you didn't see what I thought I sent as the reply. :o

Please accept my apologies -

But I still stand by the possibility that a bad differential can cause adverse load impacts on the tranny. Then again, it's no excuse for a poorly designed tranny in the first place.

BTW - I previewed my reply before posting it this time to make sure there were no message form errors.

RUF

 

Eric:

Just the 3L flush - I think the other is excessive.

Changing at 5k, then every year after that (say 12k) is all that is required in my book.

It gets out the wear particles, allows you to clean the plug magnet, and adds at least a thrid of fresh fluid and additives.

If the tranny is prone to failure after that level of TLC, then I say SH!T on it and I am out of here Acura...next step Audi S4 and 6-speed manual!

 

260: Last time I looked, there was no in-radiator transmission oil cooler on the TL.

Can anyone with the HELM manual describe the transmission cooling system in the TL - I asked in another post but no one responded.

How does Acura cool the tranny?

 

If there is no in-radiator tranny cooler on TLS/CLS, installing aftermarket cooler might be complicated, assuming there is no ATF outlet/inlet. If the outlet/inlet is avail, it's going to be a simple install.

However, knowing that Accords (at least the V6s) have the in-radiator cooler, it's hard to believe that CL/TLs don't have it. It's easy to spot. See the link I posted above to check it out.

 

Glad to see my post generated so much discussion, even if it did stray a little from the original topic.