Southbound

I just hit 7500 miles on my 2002 TLS.

I did the first oil change at 3750 and the second today at 7500. Since I've been paranoid about the tranny issues, I've also drained and refilled the tranny fluid BOTH times. I didn't do the whole flush routine, just a simple drain and refill. I get a little over 3 quarts of fluid to drain out when up on my ramps.

I'm just trying to establish the condition of the fluid and its rate of change throughout the life of the tranny, to see if there ever happens to be any correlation...

BOTH times the fluid was noticeably brown as compared to the new cherry red fluid... I refill it with HONDA ATF Z-1.

BOTH times the magnetic drain plug has had about 1/32 to 1/16th of an inch of gray graphite type sludge surrounding it. This second time, the sludge buildup MAY? have been a little bit less, but still there. Along with this sludge is just a FEW TINY metal slivers embedded into it.

This time I went to the trouble of taking two hours to pour and strain the old fluid through a coffee filter from my NEW CLEAN drain pan into my recycle containers. When finished... the coffee filter had no significant debris. There were a FEW pieces of metal the size of salt grains, but when I rubbed the bottom of the filter clean with my fingers, everything felt very smooth, slick and lubricated. I couldn't feel any coarse particles or sludge between my fingers. If I were blind, it would have felt like new. I DID find ONE piece of debris about 1/8th inch square that was the color of a brown paper bag and about that thick. However it had the consistency and durability more like cardboard, although it was only paper thick. CLUTCH MATERIAL???

Except for the brown color, I would give the tranny fluid a clean bill of health... No real sign of metal contamination, no metal shavings after being filtered... just some slight sludge build up around the drain plug. BUT THEN THE TRANNY IS ESSENTIALLY BRAND NEW.... How much wear and tear should be expected at this point of break in? The only thing that really seemed out of the ordinary was THE COLOR CHANGE! It is definitely more brown than red which scares me

Normally I wouldn't even be messing with this until 30,000 miles or so. I've seen brown fluid in other cars, but I've never changed them at this soon of an interval.

1. How long should the fluid stay red in a GOOD tranny? Is this color change normal at this stage of its life?

2. Is fluid color change this soon indicative of excessive heat? I think it is...

3. What is the significance of the fluid color change? How much does this affect its working properties? Does it cause an accelerated self destructive loop? OR is it simply a normal process and NOT TO WORRY? RoadRage or Heyrandy... Can either of you enlighten me/us on the subject?

4. I forget who installed a "tranny cooler" on their TLS, but if you're reading this... I would love to hear your opinion. I would love to know if the fluid stays cherry red in your car after the cooler has been installed?

I hope this analysis has been worth reading for those out there wondering how long their tranny will hang tight... I DON'T race my car... I seldom use SS or D4. I drive in D5 and commute on the freeway 25 miles each way, each day. I have taken one trip through the 120 degree heat From L.A. to Vegas back in August. (Car performed like a dream) I tend to drive around 80mph on the highway... I do enjoy the passing power and use it regularly although I never floor it to go around somebody. Just nice smooth acceleration.

Sorry for my typical long post, but I'm sure some of you are curious about what goes on inside of that tempermental box. Thus, I thought a status report of our tranny wear and tear would be of some interest. I know some of you have gone through complete flushes and still had the tranny go down.... But I'm just wondering if the real problem is TOO MUCH HEAT? Should Acura have a recall retrofit mod to add a tranny cooler?

Any thoughts?????
Thanks for listening...

TopGum

I did the B&M cooler install mentioned on the CL board. It is to early to change the fluid again (only few hundred miles). However, every indpendent mechanic and specialty shop I have spoken with ALL say it is the best thing I could have done with the transmission.

The tranny does respond better. Crisper shifts, not in such a hurry to get to D5. From a driving perspective, thumbs up. When I change the fluid, I'll post my comments. I have a feeling they will be positive.

Southbound

Thanks for the response TopGum.

Yeah, I would definitely be interested to hear about how much difference the tranny cooler has made with respect to the degradation of the fluid.

When you do drain your fluid next time, PLEASE post how many miles and what condition its in.

Red has to be better than Brown... I'm just curious to know what the normal rate of color change should be???

roadman

TopGum,

Was there any indication that you needed a tranny fluid cooler (ie: a temp reading via an installed guage or lab tested burnt fluid ) ?

or was this just a piece of mind upgrade ?

Beiruty

I had tranny gear-shift 1-2 shivering... I did regular ATF drain and replace as you did ( 3 Qrts) at 30,000 kmiles. The shivering was gone!!!... Now at 40 kmiles.. I started notice the shivering is back... at 45kmiles... I will do ATF drainage again... The AT oil as you said: "BOTH times the magnetic drain plug has had about 1/32 to 1/16th of an inch of gray graphite type sludge surrounding it." I have the same.....

roadman

Group,

The installation of an inline tranny filer seem likes it makes sense. I found a company that makes one and I'm sure that there are plenty of others. There is always a fine metal substance on my drain plug.

http://www.emergingent.com/subpage1Magnefine.htm

fender4

send your trans oil to the lab, they have kits, it's very easy... Blackstone labs or Oil Analyzer Inc. Cost is around $20,, ,,

TopGum

"Was there any indication that you needed a tranny fluid cooler (ie: a temp reading via an installed guage or lab tested burnt fluid ) ?"

Nope. just lots of discussion with mechanics, specialty shops and the list of blown trannys from this board and acura-cl. Also, I used the same B&M unit Comptech is recommending for there supercharger application. Stay tuned.