TL:Legend or Vigor, that is the question
06-13-2002 | 08:50 PM
#1
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Burning Brakes
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From: NJ
TL:Legend or Vigor, that is the question
Looking at a timeline of Acura history at the dealership the other day, it said that the CL was born on the premis of the Legend Coupe. And if you look at the rear of the 99-03 TL, they are a spitting image of the Legend.They also both share a 3.2 liter engine. However in Japan the Legend is our RL. Now think back to the original 96 2.5 TL, it was a 5 cylinder engine. The Vigor, very shortly lived 92-95 was also a 5 cylinder.
The early TL and the Vigor share many simularities too, like the way the rear passenger windows go down on an angle for example. So what is a TL? Vigor or Legend?
The early TL and the Vigor share many simularities too, like the way the rear passenger windows go down on an angle for example. So what is a TL? Vigor or Legend?
06-13-2002 | 10:50 PM
#3
O.G.
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: East Hanover, NJ
The 1st generation TL (96-98) was a replacement for the 92-95 Vigor. If you look at the lines of the 92-95 Vigor, it looks almost the same as the 96-98 TL. But the 2nd generation TL (99-01) got a brand new look.
And the RL replaced the Legend.
And the RL replaced the Legend.
06-13-2002 | 11:28 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
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From: In my house
Just keep in mind that the TL, both the new style and the 1st generation, as well as the Vigor, were all built on the then (and now for 1999+ TL) Accord Chassis, although i am pretty sure the 1st generation TL was actually built on the pre-'94 style accord, and not the 94-98 body style, which was actually smaller.
06-14-2002 | 08:14 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
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Originally posted by aepiua
From what I was told, the RL replaced the legend hence the name RL= Replaced Legend.
From what I was told, the RL replaced the legend hence the name RL= Replaced Legend.
CL = Coupe Luxury
TL = Total Luxury
RL = Real Luxury
06-14-2002 | 08:25 AM
#7
Safety Car
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From: Fog City
Originally posted by johnnyb_s
Interesting notion...I was informed from a dealer that the letters stood for:
CL = Coupe Luxury
TL = Total Luxury
RL = Real Luxury
Interesting notion...I was informed from a dealer that the letters stood for:
CL = Coupe Luxury
TL = Total Luxury
RL = Real Luxury
That goes to show that car dealers don't know $hit!
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06-14-2002 | 09:29 AM
#8
Pro
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TL better than Legend? I think not!
Originally posted by silver03TL
So the TL is not a Legend, but better IMO.
So the TL is not a Legend, but better IMO.
If I could have found a 95 Legend GS (6spd or auto) with low miles I would have bought it over my brand new TL-S, hands down. The Legend is still the ultimate Acura sedan.
06-14-2002 | 10:45 AM
#9
Advanced
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It's too bad the folks at Acura wanted people to say they drive an Acura instead of a 'Legend' or 'Integra'. I guess they had too good of a thing going and were afraid they would lose the Brand identity. The only way to get it back was to replace the cool names with crappy numbers and initials like all the other luxmobile manufacturers. IMO the TL is quite superior to the Legend in ride and handling due to chassis stiffness improvements, but it just doesn't have the panache the Legend name carried.
06-14-2002 | 11:31 AM
#10
Safety Car
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From: Fog City
Re: TL better than Legend? I think not!
Originally posted by rockinTLS
I guess you are welcome to your opinion.
If I could have found a 95 Legend GS (6spd or auto) with low miles I would have bought it over my brand new TL-S, hands down. The Legend is still the ultimate Acura sedan.
I guess you are welcome to your opinion.
If I could have found a 95 Legend GS (6spd or auto) with low miles I would have bought it over my brand new TL-S, hands down. The Legend is still the ultimate Acura sedan.
Did they have a 6 speed in the sedan? I thought the 6 speed was only available in the coupe.
06-14-2002 | 11:46 AM
#11
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From: Everywhere
GS Legends (wonderful cars) came in 6=speeds in coupe or 4 door form, sweet cars, look for the polished 5 spoke wheels and color coded grill as a hint. 230hp.
However price killed it, 44k new. Acura gave the 3.5 RL more low-end torque and less hp 210 and to this day NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FOCK THEY WERE THINKING.
However price killed it, 44k new. Acura gave the 3.5 RL more low-end torque and less hp 210 and to this day NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FOCK THEY WERE THINKING.
06-14-2002 | 12:14 PM
#12
Comptech Freak
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally posted by johnnyb_s
Interesting notion...I was informed from a dealer that the letters stood for:
CL = Coupe Luxury
TL = Total Luxury
RL = Real Luxury
Interesting notion...I was informed from a dealer that the letters stood for:
CL = Coupe Luxury
TL = Total Luxury
RL = Real Luxury
06-14-2002 | 12:15 PM
#13
Comptech Freak
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
GS Legends (wonderful cars) came in 6=speeds in coupe or 4 door form, sweet cars, look for the polished 5 spoke wheels and color coded grill as a hint. 230hp.
However price killed it, 44k new. Acura gave the 3.5 RL more low-end torque and less hp 210 and to this day NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FOCK THEY WERE THINKING.
GS Legends (wonderful cars) came in 6=speeds in coupe or 4 door form, sweet cars, look for the polished 5 spoke wheels and color coded grill as a hint. 230hp.
However price killed it, 44k new. Acura gave the 3.5 RL more low-end torque and less hp 210 and to this day NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FOCK THEY WERE THINKING.
06-14-2002 | 12:40 PM
#14
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From: Fog City
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
However price killed it, 44k new. Acura gave the 3.5 RL more low-end torque and less hp 210 and to this day NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FOCK THEY WERE THINKING.
However price killed it, 44k new. Acura gave the 3.5 RL more low-end torque and less hp 210 and to this day NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FOCK THEY WERE THINKING.
What were they thinking when they made the new Honda Pilot with a GM engine????
06-14-2002 | 01:41 PM
#15
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From: East Hanover NJ
Originally posted by samkws
but the 6spd legend were limited sold...it's kinda hard to find a gd one
but the 6spd legend were limited sold...it's kinda hard to find a gd one
Its hard to find one at all, let alone in good shape.....i think they were produced less then the 6 speed CL, and there only making 2700 or 2800 of them.
06-14-2002 | 01:46 PM
#16
Originally posted by silver03TL
What were they thinking when they made the new Honda Pilot with a GM engine????
What were they thinking when they made the new Honda Pilot with a GM engine????
06-14-2002 | 02:50 PM
#17
Banned
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Mundelein, IL
Originally posted by johnnyb_s
Interesting notion...I was informed from a dealer that the letters stood for:
CL = Coupe Luxury
TL = Total Luxury
RL = Real Luxury
Interesting notion...I was informed from a dealer that the letters stood for:
CL = Coupe Luxury
TL = Total Luxury
RL = Real Luxury
CL = Coupe Luxury
TL = Touring Luxury
RL = Road Luxury
06-14-2002 | 02:52 PM
#18
Banned
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From: Mundelein, IL
Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
GS Legends (wonderful cars) came in 6=speeds in coupe or 4 door form, sweet cars, look for the polished 5 spoke wheels and color coded grill as a hint. 230hp.
However price killed it, 44k new. Acura gave the 3.5 RL more low-end torque and less hp 210 and to this day NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FOCK THEY WERE THINKING.
GS Legends (wonderful cars) came in 6=speeds in coupe or 4 door form, sweet cars, look for the polished 5 spoke wheels and color coded grill as a hint. 230hp.
However price killed it, 44k new. Acura gave the 3.5 RL more low-end torque and less hp 210 and to this day NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THE FOCK THEY WERE THINKING.
I still think the second gen coupes are still one of the nicest looking cars on the road.
06-14-2002 | 03:55 PM
#20
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: YVR
Originally posted by silver03TL
What were they thinking when they made the new Honda Pilot with a GM engine????
What were they thinking when they made the new Honda Pilot with a GM engine????
It is 100% Honda. Where the hell does GM come in ?! Future diesel engines maybe, but definitely not gasoline engines.
06-14-2002 | 04:01 PM
#22
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From: Mundelein, IL
Originally posted by Edward'TLS
Pilot engine = 3.5L-V6 and 240 hp = Odyssey engine = MDX engine.
It is 100% Honda. Where the hell does GM come in ?! Future diesel engines maybe, but definitely not gasoline engines.
Pilot engine = 3.5L-V6 and 240 hp = Odyssey engine = MDX engine.
It is 100% Honda. Where the hell does GM come in ?! Future diesel engines maybe, but definitely not gasoline engines.
Does anyone remember the GM Quad-4? That thing buzzed and vibrated so much that you could hear it coming around a corner. :yack:
06-14-2002 | 04:10 PM
#23
Comptech Freak
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally posted by goaub
Yeah that'll be the day, "borrowing" GM engines when Honda makes some of the smoothest engines in the world.
Does anyone remember the GM Quad-4? That thing buzzed and vibrated so much that you could hear it coming around a corner. :yack:
Yeah that'll be the day, "borrowing" GM engines when Honda makes some of the smoothest engines in the world.
Does anyone remember the GM Quad-4? That thing buzzed and vibrated so much that you could hear it coming around a corner. :yack:
while honda borrows the transmission technology from GM...
06-14-2002 | 04:26 PM
#25
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From: Mundelein, IL
Originally posted by samkws
GM BORROWS honda engines...
while honda borrows the transmission technology from GM...
GM BORROWS honda engines...
while honda borrows the transmission technology from GM...
The transmission failure rate, albeit a little disturbing, is really only a blip compared to the amount of cars sold. I think people focus on it more because it's Honda and their reputaion for quality.
I've owned and driven my share of domestics, and I also had the tranny die on my Acura Vigor @111K miles. Up until then, the only other repair was a bad wheel bearing @ 85K miles. I paid $750 for a used tranny and then traded the car in.
Compare that with a Blazer I owned which had the following go wrong:
Electronic dash replaced THREE times in a year and a half
Ball joints replaced before 20K miles (never was off-road)
Power door lock switch went bad
Windshield wiper switch went bad
4WD switch went bad (embarassing when your 4x4 won't go up your snowy driveway)
faulty water pump replaced at 40K miles
Torsion bar mount went bad
rattles??! TL owners haven't heard rattles like this
puffing blue smoke at start-up which meant it needed new valve seals (40K miles)
Defective spark plug wires replaced (caused engine vibration @ 55mph)
I got rid of it at 50K miles!
I'll take a chance on Honda any day.
06-14-2002 | 08:47 PM
#26
6G TLX-S
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: YVR
GM is famous for buying small displacement engines from Japanese car manufacturers such as Isuzu (Geo Storm ??), and Toyota (before it was the Geo's repackaged Corolla , now it is the repackaged Matrix). There are rumors that GM is eyeing the Honda 3.0L-V6 engines because of the increasing stiffer auto emission requirement coming very soon. In fact, not many car manufacturers out there can make an ultra-low emission engine which has a respectable output like Honda. I guess its involvements in motorbike, law-mower, power generator, and marine engines really pay off.
06-14-2002 | 09:42 PM
#27
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Ontario, Canada
Originally posted by Edward'TLS
GM is famous for buying small displacement engines from Japanese car manufacturers such as Isuzu (Geo Storm ??), and Toyota (before it was the Geo's repackaged Corolla , now it is the repackaged Matrix). There are rumors that GM is eyeing the Honda 3.0L-V6 engines because of the increasing stiffer auto emission requirement coming very soon. In fact, not many car manufacturers out there can make an ultra-low emission engine which has a respectable output like Honda. I guess its involvements in motorbike, law-mower, power generator, and marine engines really pay off.
GM is famous for buying small displacement engines from Japanese car manufacturers such as Isuzu (Geo Storm ??), and Toyota (before it was the Geo's repackaged Corolla , now it is the repackaged Matrix). There are rumors that GM is eyeing the Honda 3.0L-V6 engines because of the increasing stiffer auto emission requirement coming very soon. In fact, not many car manufacturers out there can make an ultra-low emission engine which has a respectable output like Honda. I guess its involvements in motorbike, law-mower, power generator, and marine engines really pay off.
06-14-2002 | 11:14 PM
#28
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The transmission is the one area in my old GTP that I think beats the Acura. The Honda hunts and shifts more frequently and has trouble deciding what gear to be in at speeds between 25 and 45. Under full throttle, I thought the GTP had quicker transmission response and snapped its shifts off quicker but just as smoothly. Hey if GM is going to swipe an engine, why not one of the best. Maybe they will learn something. Their 3.8L is good for a pushrod, probably the best, but I love the sewing machine smooth silken snarl of the Acura 3.2 V6
06-15-2002 | 01:49 AM
#31
Comptech Freak
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally posted by goaub
I'm assuming that you're purposely exaggerating. If not, have you ever owned a GM vehicle, much less a domestic?
The transmission failure rate, albeit a little disturbing, is really only a blip compared to the amount of cars sold. I think people focus on it more because it's Honda and their reputaion for quality.
I've owned and driven my share of domestics, and I also had the tranny die on my Acura Vigor @111K miles. Up until then, the only other repair was a bad wheel bearing @ 85K miles. I paid $750 for a used tranny and then traded the car in.
Compare that with a Blazer I owned which had the following go wrong:
Electronic dash replaced THREE times in a year and a half
Ball joints replaced before 20K miles (never was off-road)
Power door lock switch went bad
Windshield wiper switch went bad
4WD switch went bad (embarassing when your 4x4 won't go up your snowy driveway)
faulty water pump replaced at 40K miles
Torsion bar mount went bad
rattles??! TL owners haven't heard rattles like this
puffing blue smoke at start-up which meant it needed new valve seals (40K miles)
Defective spark plug wires replaced (caused engine vibration @ 55mph)
I got rid of it at 50K miles!
I'll take a chance on Honda any day.
I'm assuming that you're purposely exaggerating. If not, have you ever owned a GM vehicle, much less a domestic?
The transmission failure rate, albeit a little disturbing, is really only a blip compared to the amount of cars sold. I think people focus on it more because it's Honda and their reputaion for quality.
I've owned and driven my share of domestics, and I also had the tranny die on my Acura Vigor @111K miles. Up until then, the only other repair was a bad wheel bearing @ 85K miles. I paid $750 for a used tranny and then traded the car in.
Compare that with a Blazer I owned which had the following go wrong:
Electronic dash replaced THREE times in a year and a half
Ball joints replaced before 20K miles (never was off-road)
Power door lock switch went bad
Windshield wiper switch went bad
4WD switch went bad (embarassing when your 4x4 won't go up your snowy driveway)
faulty water pump replaced at 40K miles
Torsion bar mount went bad
rattles??! TL owners haven't heard rattles like this
puffing blue smoke at start-up which meant it needed new valve seals (40K miles)
Defective spark plug wires replaced (caused engine vibration @ 55mph)
I got rid of it at 50K miles!
I'll take a chance on Honda any day.
i owned a buick for a couple yrs b4 i got the TL
i was saying giving their technology to honda to develop a 5-speed...coz honda was behind nissan and toyota for the transmission part...
GM got their 3.0V6 engine and honda got the automatic technology from GM
06-15-2002 | 01:51 AM
#32
Comptech Freak
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally posted by Edward'TLS
GM is famous for buying small displacement engines from Japanese car manufacturers such as Isuzu (Geo Storm ??), and Toyota (before it was the Geo's repackaged Corolla , now it is the repackaged Matrix). There are rumors that GM is eyeing the Honda 3.0L-V6 engines because of the increasing stiffer auto emission requirement coming very soon. In fact, not many car manufacturers out there can make an ultra-low emission engine which has a respectable output like Honda. I guess its involvements in motorbike, law-mower, power generator, and marine engines really pay off.
GM is famous for buying small displacement engines from Japanese car manufacturers such as Isuzu (Geo Storm ??), and Toyota (before it was the Geo's repackaged Corolla , now it is the repackaged Matrix). There are rumors that GM is eyeing the Honda 3.0L-V6 engines because of the increasing stiffer auto emission requirement coming very soon. In fact, not many car manufacturers out there can make an ultra-low emission engine which has a respectable output like Honda. I guess its involvements in motorbike, law-mower, power generator, and marine engines really pay off.
that was true...it was about 2-3 yrs ago...
after that honda came out the 5-spd on the V6s...but yet on the 4 cylinders...
06-15-2002 | 01:54 AM
#33
Comptech Freak
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally posted by baddawwg
The transmission is the one area in my old GTP that I think beats the Acura. The Honda hunts and shifts more frequently and has trouble deciding what gear to be in at speeds between 25 and 45. Under full throttle, I thought the GTP had quicker transmission response and snapped its shifts off quicker but just as smoothly. Hey if GM is going to swipe an engine, why not one of the best. Maybe they will learn something. Their 3.8L is good for a pushrod, probably the best, but I love the sewing machine smooth silken snarl of the Acura 3.2 V6
The transmission is the one area in my old GTP that I think beats the Acura. The Honda hunts and shifts more frequently and has trouble deciding what gear to be in at speeds between 25 and 45. Under full throttle, I thought the GTP had quicker transmission response and snapped its shifts off quicker but just as smoothly. Hey if GM is going to swipe an engine, why not one of the best. Maybe they will learn something. Their 3.8L is good for a pushrod, probably the best, but I love the sewing machine smooth silken snarl of the Acura 3.2 V6
the 3.8 is one of the best engines ever along with the small block V8, but it seems will drop after 2008 coz of the emission problem...currently it's a LEV engine...
the new engines are coming...3.6L 261hp...OHC design...i guess that's from honda's technology...
06-15-2002 | 01:55 AM
#34
Comptech Freak
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally posted by RAdams
GM's automatic transmissions aren't all that bad. The 4L80-E (I think that's the code) is quite often regarded as one of the best in the industry.
GM's automatic transmissions aren't all that bad. The 4L80-E (I think that's the code) is quite often regarded as one of the best in the industry.
imagine the BMW 5 series and X5 are using their tranmission...
so does Bentley and RollceRoyce..
06-15-2002 | 07:33 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
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Originally posted by JPTLS21
JUMPING BACK TO THE 6 SPEED GS LEGEND, I HAVE ALSO SEEN IT ADVERTISED AS LEGEND TYPE II. SOUND FIRMILIAR TO ANYONE?
JUMPING BACK TO THE 6 SPEED GS LEGEND, I HAVE ALSO SEEN IT ADVERTISED AS LEGEND TYPE II. SOUND FIRMILIAR TO ANYONE?
06-15-2002 | 01:55 PM
#36
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From: Everywhere
There is a legends.org or something.
Not sure what the new names stand for, nor do I or anyone really cares. To this day I believe that if the CL was named the Legend, it would be selling like hotcakes cause the Legend name made quite a positve name and brand for itself and CL has absolutely none whatsover. It also sucks that Benz renamed their flagship the CL 500/600.
Goaub is correct with his names.
Not sure what the new names stand for, nor do I or anyone really cares. To this day I believe that if the CL was named the Legend, it would be selling like hotcakes cause the Legend name made quite a positve name and brand for itself and CL has absolutely none whatsover. It also sucks that Benz renamed their flagship the CL 500/600.
That dealer is an idiot.
06-15-2002 | 03:00 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
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From: NJ
I could see Acura many many years down the line re-interducing the Legend. Just as the Honda SI made a return. Honda/Acura likes to build up the hype, thats how they have allways done business. I predict a retro Legend years down the line.
Hey we can all dream right?
Hey we can all dream right?
06-15-2002 | 03:46 PM
#39
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From: Miami - just one day, I would like to drive without getting cut off!
Re: TL better than Legend? I think not!
Originally posted by rockinTLS
I guess you are welcome to your opinion.
If I could have found a 95 Legend GS (6spd or auto) with low miles I would have bought it over my brand new TL-S, hands down. The Legend is still the ultimate Acura sedan.
I guess you are welcome to your opinion.
If I could have found a 95 Legend GS (6spd or auto) with low miles I would have bought it over my brand new TL-S, hands down. The Legend is still the ultimate Acura sedan.
06-16-2002 | 01:14 AM
#40
Three Wheelin'
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
There is a legends.org or something.
Not sure what the new names stand for, nor do I or anyone really cares. To this day I believe that if the CL was named the Legend, it would be selling like hotcakes cause the Legend name made quite a positve name and brand for itself and CL has absolutely none whatsover. It also sucks that Benz renamed their flagship the CL 500/600.
Goaub is correct with his names.
There is a legends.org or something.
Not sure what the new names stand for, nor do I or anyone really cares. To this day I believe that if the CL was named the Legend, it would be selling like hotcakes cause the Legend name made quite a positve name and brand for itself and CL has absolutely none whatsover. It also sucks that Benz renamed their flagship the CL 500/600.
Goaub is correct with his names.
i didnt know a coupe could qualify as a flagship ???