My '02 TL-S has 175K miles on it and I'd love to keep it for quite a while longer. I can handle normal maintenance items that come up but the brake rotors are just killing the joy I have for this car.

I've tried several different rotors, I've replaced them myself and had a brake shop do it, no matter what they are pulsating again within a year or so. The whole car shudders under braking and the steering wheel shakes.

What gives? I'm tired of putting new rotors on.

 

When replacing the rotors, did ya try different pads ?
Perhaps the calipers or pins are hanging up and causing friction heat to warp the rotors ? IDK.

Have the steering & suspension components checked also.

 

Did they properly bed the brakes in? Did they change out both the rotors and brakes? Did they bleed all four calipers?


If they installed everything correctly than it might be another issue.
~improperly torqued lug nuts
~tires are out of balance
~calipers sticking(rear calipers will cause shudder if not working properly)
~ball joints
~improperly torqued brackets
~under inflated tires


The list goes on and on. Important to get a second set of eyes on it and have the problem repaired correctly hopefully without any more parts.

 

with both of them..
Pulsating Brake can also means your ABS Pump is working overtime for some reason? are you braking hard or late? because in normal conditions the car should not pulsate unless you push hard the brakes then almost any TL will make some kind of vibration.

 

The problem isn't the car...

 

Over torquing the lugs is the biggest cause of it. Do the calipers move freely on the slider pins? What pads are you using? What brand of rotors?

 

air the the system will mess up the feeling
has the system been bled/flushed in the SPECIAL TL ORDER
of left front /driver front then clockwise around the car
LF RF RR LR
average techs wont know this
It needs to be done every year- every 3 years max between full fluid flush

Also if the caliper brake line has been opened for any reason- you MUST do 2 ABS active stops from 45 mph
to dislodge hidden air trapped in abs. then rebleed system as above

abs active means full force application of brake pedal and turn wheel wildly or thru wet surface-gravel etc to lose traction under braking
abs will VERY rapidly pulsate the faster speed rotor - you will definitely know when its happening

 

agree with above by fsttyms1 wheel lug torque is 80 foot pounds for our type rim-rotor-axle head assembly
no reason to go over that,,or under~
doing the star pattern in at least 2 (or 3) steps, 50 70 then 80
it spreads the load out properly

blasting them on one at a time with an air gun can warp the rotor attachment area
ck yours after anyone touches the tires and likely will find 120 pounds

Have found same prob on caliper and its bracket- WAYYYYYYY too tight!!!
then the caliper doesn't move easily

calipers have been inspected and tested?- place a 2x4 wood block in caliper so it cant pop apart (very bad news!) and helper presses pedal and release

 

Does it rain a lot where you live? In Florida summertime is the worse. Rotors that are low end aftermarket tend to warp easy. I change mine once a year due to this its always right after it rains. It begins as a very faint pulsating then gradually gets worse. Also did you check all four? or just the front? might be the rears. My first time changing i thought no way the rears are bad and went through 2 sets before changing and vuala no more vibrations. I get the Autozone duralast gold with 3 year warranty. At least i can get free swaps when it rains or i hit a puddle of water

 

Call me crazy but I used 100 grit sand paper, took the wheel off and put the sand paper on both sides of the rotor then had an assistant put the car in neutral then let the rotor spin.
No more pulsation, This will not work on warped rotors that move the caliper side to side

The car was sitting for a while outside exposed to rain and snow, Check everything else mentioned above.

 

If everything checks out.


Bed the brakes in:
10 moderate stops from 60 mph to 10 miles per hour.
Do this on an empty road and never let the car fully stop until you did all 10 of them.
Then do a cool off drive because your rotors will be really hot.


Note: This should put the pad material back on the rotor, thus fixing any uneven braking.

 

You could always just take the rotors to Autozone, O'reilly's, etc. and have them turn them for you. Its about $30 a pair and takes 30 - 45 minutes. That took care of the problem for me. Do that instead of buying new rotors every time. My car would shudder the most when I braked at 60ish mph but I could still feel it at any speed. I had just the fronts turned and it went away. Much cheaper than buying new rotors.

 

when the problem comes back with different rotors or resurfaced, its more than just the rotor
something is causing an imbalance, a slightly bent axle head- where the lug bolts are= techs blasting lugs on with an air gun, can tweak that metal...which will in turn shake things attached to it

how is the wheel balance?
a Hunter brand balancer can ck the rim and tires (they can blow a belt inside and create shake)

we already discussed all the places that need lube- fluid flush ck caliper operation etc yes?

 

Thanks for all the replies. Just to clarify, the pulsating is due to either warped rotors or uneven brake pad deposit on the rotors, not the ABS.

I have followed recommended break-in procedures for each type of rotor & pad I've tried. All four rotors have been replaced and they all seem to be affected. Last time I changed the fronts & rear a couple weeks apart and could tell they each made a difference.

The car is not driven hard, but lots of stop and go at times.

LOL, I live in Seattle.

I will double check the torque on the lug nuts. Also, I know I need some new struts and will be installing some in a week or so.

Unfortunately I can't remember exactly which rotors & pads I put on this last time, it was over a year ago and I can't find my email receipts.

 

LOTS of Rain + Lots of stop and go + over a year ago = Most likely warped rotors. I change rotors twice a year due to the rain. It could be due to the crappy rotors from autozone buy heh i get 3 year warranty out of them and just swap them out.

 

Good to hear the problem is narrowed down. If you`re installing your rotors and in addition to lubing the slides and back of the pads get all if any rust between the hub and the rotor and behind the wheel where it meets the rotor.


If you are changing out your rotors so frequently you might want check the calipers especially the rear, check for uneven wear on the brake pads or change your braking habits. These cars are not built for frequent heavy braking.

 

Your problem goes deeper than cheap rotors....just be glad that A-Zone replaces them for free. Ya must not value your time and effort very highly.

I'd suggest attempting to find the real issue involved instead of dancing around it. Get a real fix !!!

 

Actually you could be right but my pulsating usually starts right after we have had a blistering hot day and then get a surprise shower in the middle of the day. I usually don't get caught by it but when i do the pulsating is immediately after (usually the next day) or if i happen to hit a large puddle of water on the road. For me i just chalked it up to cheap rotors and bad weather. But I'm no mechanic i just figured thats what was causing it. Seems like you know your stuff what else can i try to fix my issue then?

 

Buy better quality rotors and make sure that all the braking components are working properly. Cleaning and lubing is the key to good working brakes along with correct torque on the lug nuts. Other than that...... worn steering / suspension parts or even unbalanced wheels can cause pulsating issues.

 

I'm sure my install of braking components is just fine. As far as better brake rotors, sounds like you are agreeing with me. I probably should but considering I can do the brakes at this poit within 30 min it's no biggy. Do I value my time of coarse i do, But I enjoy doing my little maintenance and mods to my car yes of coarse I'm a car guy. Now to the original poste I believe the purpose if this thread was to inform the OP of what might be going on with his braking system not mine. Thank you for your forced opinion but I'm not asking for advise, the OP is. Thanks anyways I guess lmao

 

^ If you are using the OEM 1 Pot Caliper and Cheap Rotors its bound to warp them in no time! The 1 Pot Caliper is the No. 1 Issue with Warping Rotors, It creates an Un-even pressure in the brake pad which causes overheating and expansion in the rotor even in normal driving conditions. It gets worse with longer braking periods, Cheap Rotors have no Chance.

Only way to Fight this is to buy a Better Built Rotor which can disperse heat more effectively and wont Warp as Easily BUT They are Expensive!!
The Cheapest route is to just get the Legend Dual Pot Calipers and Problem Solved! Last time I check they were less than 100 bucks which is cheaper than getting a Pair of Quality Rotors.

 

Good quality rotors are not cheap but in addition to upgrading the front calipers to the Legend 2 pot there is a Brakemotive package for around 100 some dollars 4 rotors and 4 brake pads. The reviews say they are solid.


Note: It`s very important to have a car that brakes well for your safety and that of others.

 

And thats why i value your opinion. Makes sense thanks. Ill look into picking up a set of legend calipers. Im assuming your meaning from an autoparts store not the junkyard or at least im hoping thats what you mean.

 

Thanks for the info

 

Yup! Amazon is your best friend:




^ Remember you don't use those Brackets neither the Slider Pins!! Even if they are new, The Sliders Pins from the Legend Calipers are Smaller than OEM and creates a horrible clunking noise. You can re-use the Dust Boots though.

Both are +120 bucks so a Little over 100 than I Said I remember when I bought mine they were 80 bucks for the pair..
So be fast before they get even more expensive!

 

So, other than just replacing rotors.....what else have ya tried ?

Could be that the calipers are hanging up, or something mechanically worn within the steering or suspension. Have an alignment shop give ya a free evaluation and estimate....then go from there. Save the guesswork !!!

 

in reviewing this today I say begin with full flush of the brake fluid
remember its LF RF RR LR for the TL about 1.5 Qts to get all the old stuff hiding long after you think its done,,keep goin on each wheel until its pulled x ounces thru (your math here)

if one caliper wont give up any fluid (often a rear) its stuck and you have found the problem or the result of the real problem
hygroscopic- wiki it

inspect each pad and note wear on inner and outer- uneven suggest a caliper is stuck or weak
little wear one on side of car and major wear on other = caliper

moisture in the system occurs and turns into micro rust particles which damage seal and cylinder of caliper
that's why the MAX time between brake fluid flush is 3 years
preferred time for wet weather areas and racers, wannabe racers = 1 year or more often if needed from track days

 

I re-torqued all lug nuts this weekend and the problem seems to be 90% gone now. They were last torqued by Discount Tire during a tire rotation. I then did the re-bed in procedure listed above this morning to be sure.

I can't recall if I've ever had the brake fluid changed (yes, ever) so I will do that this week when I change the struts and check for any bound up pistons.

I read that warped rotors were very common on this car so tbh every time it happened I assumed it was just something I had to deal with. Appreciate all the feedback everyone.

 

^ They are because of the 1 Pot Caliper.. You will most likely always Warp a Cheap Rotor with it... Get the Legend Calipers and problem solved with Cheap Rotors.

 

when you re=torqued did you back each lug off halfway then retighten in correct sequence?
did you ck what they were at to start?

 

the torque of caliper bracket and caliper bolts is important and much lower than you would think

 

Yes I loosened all nuts then tightened in the correct sequence. I didn't check what they were, but they all broke loose without tripping the torque wrench set at 80 ft-lbs.

 

I checked the factory service manual for bleeding procedures and it doesn't mention this, is this procedure outlined somewhere else?

 

I believe it is in the Helms manual.


A few tips:
~Harbor freight tools sells a brake bleeder kit that will make the job 10x easier. I got it. I use it.
~Make sure all the bubbles are out and the debris before going on to next wheel.
~Don`t let the reservoir empty completely, keep filling the reservoir as you bleed the brake fluid out.
~Dispose of the brake fluid correctly.

 

Rain isnt going to warp the rotor. Especially normal driving. Maybe if you have them glowing red then hit them with water sure. Over torquing lugnuts is the largest contributor to it, along with slider pins that dont move freely and the slots the pads slide into not allowing the pad to move off the rotor when brakes are released. I have never warped a rotor, even after lapping days and driving in the rain. Current set of rotors have 200k miles on them and are as smooth as glass braking.

No warped rotors or hydrolocking of motor with cai even after cleaning my engine

 

Guys, the lug nut re-torque seems to have fixed the problem. There may still be some pulsation but it's so slight it's possible it's all in my head now. I'm still going to go ahead with the other maintenance items (flush fluid, etc) to make sure things keep working well.

Thanks again for all the input.