broly

hi guys,

just wondering if you guys know of similar steering racks that will "drop in" to our car (preferably OEM) that would have a slightly better turning radius.

mine is only beginning to drip, so i want to explore all options in terms of replacement.

if money is being spent, i would like a slightly better turning radius.

suggestions?

thx

broly

interesting comment by zetas here:
after doing some research, here are the specifications for a (rebuilt) TL steering rack:

41.75 in. Rack Length;
1.77 in. Thread Length;
2.44 in. L x 0.75 in. Diameter Input Shaft;
M14 x 1.5 Pressure Port and
M16 x 1.5 Return Port Thread Sizes;
Steel/Aluminum Casting Material;
Seat Hose Port Type;
2.88 Total Turns Lock to Lock

and here are the specifications for the 2002 EX-V6 Accord Steering rack:

41.75 in. Rack Length;
1.77 in. Thread Length;
2.44 in. L x 0.75 in. Diameter Input Shaft;
M14 x 1.5 Pressure Port and M16 x 1.5 Return Port Thread Sizes;
Steel/Aluminum Casting Material; Seat Hose Port Type;
3.13 Total Turns Lock to Lock

i am hoping the total turns lock-to-lock merely reflects the superior turning radius of the EX-V6, and shouldn't be a problem if i was to bolt it on?

all of the other specifications are identical. i just don't want to buy this thing and then realise the total turns lock-to-lock is a big thing in terms of fitment.
looking closer at the part diagrams on acuraoemparts and hondapartsnow, it seems the 02 accord steering rack may be a drop-in!
any ideas?

very exciting. 18.0FT (2002 EX-V6 rack) vs 19.4FT (2G TL/CL) would be just enough to satisfy me!

zeta

iTrader: (1)

^
Refer to my answer to your PM.

whitetiger5

a few things I would think about:

• with more turning of the wheels, is there a risk of a wheel coming into contact with the radius rod?
• how will this affect handling at highway speed?
• how will this affect operation of the VSA system (it uses steering wheel angle info which will now be different relative to vehicle traveling direction)

broly

the VSA module will not be affected. it's attached to the throttle body and uses the discrepancy between throttle and wheel spin to engage, if i understand correctly.
you are right, however, on point number on. zeta mentioned this too.

this shouldn't affect highway speed operation either. the dimensions are exactly the same, save the "total turns lock to lock".

the additional .25 turn may cause some rub. i wonder if there is a way to mathematically calculate this. there should be. i hate math

looks like i'm going to need to find the clearance with the current steering rack when the wheels is turned all the way to one side, and see if the additional quarter turn will cause rub. i hope not.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

This is interesting. I swapped from a TL-P rack to a Type S rack, and I lost a significant amount of turn radius. Making U-turns now is a chore. Finding the best rack that fits will be a combination of the steering ratio and the max turns.

The TL-P rack has a steering ratio of 16.09:1 and a maximum number of turns from lock to lock of 3.11.
The Type S has a lower ratio of 16.08:1 and a lower lock to lock of 2.88.
The Accord racks have the same specs as the TL-P, but without the stupid speed assist that would need to be bypassed.

Ideally, we want a rack with a lower ratio and a higher number of lock to lock turns. The TL-P provides a smaller turn diameter because of the higher lock to lock, but has a slightly higher steering ratio.

The Accord racks look like they would fit. The Accord sedan rack is different than the coupe rack (even though the TL and CL use the same racks). The Accord Coupe V6 rack looks absolutely identical to our Type S rack, while having the TL-P rack specs. This would probably be the best choice for you.

Also, the specs for the racks are all over the place. Even Acura's own website contradicts the service manual. I pulled these specs directly from the service manuals.

broly

hi karan,

thank you so much for this information.

do you think it would be a chore to bypass the speed assist?

i wonder if swapping in a TL-P rack is better than the accord rack. i wouldn't mind losing .02 of a turn if it bypasses the speed assist.

then again speed assist may only be for tl-s? any other information you have would be great.

also: will you PLEASE upload the wiring manual you are in possession of? i recall you saying you are busy, but i would appreciate it when you have time!

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

The speed assist is only found on the TL-P rack. Although it isn't super difficult to bypass, you will end up with a mess of lines. The TL-P power steering reservoir has three outlets, so you would have an entire line to somehow bypass. The TL-S and Accord racks are much simpler. I can say that the difference between the 3.11 and the 2.88 turns is huge. I would definitely recommend the Accord rack which has 3.11 turns and no speed assist to worry about.

broly

do you think there will be a clearance issue?

i have yet to do the math and subtract the additional distance resulting from the extra quarter turn from the separation distance between the inside of the wheel and the inner fender

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

I personally think it will drop right in without issue, but the only way to find out is to compare side by side. If you're replacing the rack anyways, I would remove the rack and compare it to the Accord rack. If they are obviously the same, then install it. If they are different lengths, then return it.

Looking at the pictures, I'm positive that the mounting points and the length will all fit without issue. As long as the connections are the same diameter, I think it will fit. I know people swap their Civic racks for Integra racks or something like that, so it's not unusual for Honda parts to fit without problems.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Here's a 2002 Accord coupe located in Edmonton.

https://imageappoh.car-part.com/imag...ck%23%20ES0522

Eskimo Auto & Truck Parts
12940 53 St NW, Edmonton, AB T5A 0B9
780-473-2424

From a quick part # comparison the EX V6 shares the same rack with a EX 4 banger.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Looking into the part numbers, the rebuild A1 Cardone part actually fits both the Honda Accord and the Acura CL. Considering the CL rack is the same part number as the TL rack, that is proof that it will fit.

https://www.cardone.com/product/26-1...iteria=26-1797

The website lists Honda Accord and Acura CL under the vehicle fitments.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

I found some PS leaking from my 03 CL-S6 rack today, and thought of this thread. After looking into it more, the Accord rack that you mentioned is also made for the base Acura CL. With that information, it will 100% fit both the TL and CL cars.

The strange thing is that the base CL rack has strictly better specs than the Type S rack. It has a lower steering ratio (better performance), and a higher lock to lock number. I wonder why they bothered to use the Type S rack in the first place.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

I wonder what @broly ended up doing with his rack choice? He has not logged in since his last post of 26 Oct 2019.

broly

been driving and fixing up pops' W211 320 4matic that we've had for 14 years.

boy has it been fun. upgraded the hell out of it. added logic7, ipod interface, navigation, bluetooth+handsfree, etc.

replaced valve cover gaskets, redid breather covers. shit ton of work.

it's slower but it has been such a pleasure to drive. esp in winter. i've been ripping this thing around like it's nobody's business.

with spring due up, i am going to be looking at this rack and also getting the bottom motor mounts replaced as well.

hopefully it will be clear enough by mid march for me to remove my car from storage. lots of things to do it this year.

will miss the benz.hope i can keep it, but if i'm being pragmatic i'll have to let it go.

broly

bump.

gonna have to investigate doing this swap this year possibly.

an additional question: should i spring for the OEM engine mounts or should "good quality" aftermarket suffice? i don't want to cheap out on the wrong part.

200 bucks per mount is a lot of skrill. i need the two at the bottom.

Blotter64

Whichever are the softest, aftermarket engine mounts transfer out the vibration from the engine to the car

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Welcome to AZine, Blotter64.

Blotter64

Thanks! So does anyone know how to change a steering gear, or get a new rack, that has a higher ratio/ smaller lock to lock? I'd love to use smaller movements with my steering wheel - 2013 TL AWD

broly

definitely need a new rack this upcoming year.

put it off for quite some time, thankfully.

christ going on the freeway with even a bit of ice is so unnerving.

thankfully i know just to stay cool and not let the 'feel' detract from otherwise normal operation.

it is absolutely remarkable just how uncomfortable the wheel has felt on certain kinds of asphalt that are either wet or have some layer of ice or snow.

this upcoming year is going to be a spendy one i think. if i go down this road (i want to), i am going to have to do

rack
both lower engine mounts
oil pump reseal (small leak like the rack)

and i'm thinking probably a few other things.

really should figure out a solution to the honda navigation system conundrum too. having everything good to go is annoying.

i need one of those dev boards and suprisingly i can't get one yet. if i can, the possibilities would be endless (i have the windows CE dev environment completely prepared)

Midnight Mystery

Might as well freshen up tie rods and suspension while you're in there... xD

broly

i think the reason it's feeling floaty is the tie rods.

i have tein SS-Ps with the EDFC pro, i think i'm quite set on suspension.

but i am thinking i may need to do the rack now rather than later.

if i do tie rod replacements, then it'll still need an alignment. if the rack needs to be replaced, then it would be (as you suggested) an ideal time to do the tie rods too.

think i will get this cardone one, whenever i do it, if there's nothing better. thought something else may fit too.

broly

yo karanx7,

i was looking at acuraoemparts and it seems the 01-03 CL and 02-03 TL (both S and regular) are using the same rack part number.

any idea as to why?

i was thinking about getting a CL rack from the dealer just to ensure it doesn't leak (i am sort of worried a cardone one would)

broly

nevermind i was being stupid. it's in the p.s. gearbox dropdown not the steering column.

06536-S3M-505RM

broly

conclusion is here