Hey all:

Just got my Blue TL-S with Navi last weekend. I have 400 miles on it already, it makes me sad to see the mileage climb so fast. =p
Anyway, just want to get some inputs on where your car rattles.
Even though my car is only 1 week old, I definitely hear some rattles sounds already. So it would definitely help if we can share the areas where you hear rattles and how it got resolved.

Personally I have two areas where rattles were heard.
1) Seat Belt Adjustor area on the driver side.
I only heard it on the driver's side, didn't notice it on the passenger side. Alot of people have this rattles it seems. I took it back to the dealer, they took apart the B-pillar on the driver's side and add some tape in there, now the rattle is gone. But when going over bumps at a higher speed, it buzzes. =(

2) Rear deck area on the passenger side of the car.
I haven't pin point where this sound is coming from. But definitely to the rear right hand side of the car (passenger's side). Seems like someone was able to stick a piece of cardboard into the crack and stop this noise. Can you be more specific on where you stick the card board in?

Other areas where people complain include the dashboard, sunroof,... etc. I haven't heard these sounds yet, and hopefully I won't. This car is sweet, but for it to have this many rattle sounds when it is only a week old... definitely gives me a bad impression of made in USA.

 

This is a common problem! See the B-pillar thread and dash rattle thread.. I am sure your quite pleased with you purchase about now

Just like me

 

My friend has a Honda Prelude that has rattles. I also know someone with a Maxima that rattles and has many reliability issues. These cars were made in Japan.

I don't think you are anti America but with a blanket statement like that it sure does sound like it. Seems out of place especially during a time when the country has come together. It's the American worker that makes the most sophisticated jets, missiles, super computers and other war tools that's about to be used to kick some ass in order to preserve your freedom.

 

I guess I mis-spoken.
didn't meant for it to be any kind of anti-american statement.
just meant for the auto industry. =)

 

Steveb, please save some of your patriotism for things that really count. American made Hondas and Acuras seem to be more poorly made than their Japanese counterparts, at least according to hearsay from owners. There's nothing anti-American about that comment, so deal with it. Remember that blanket statements go both ways; just because someone's opinion doesn't follow the Party Line doesn't mean you can paste a label on his forehead.

Anyway, back to the subject. I'm having the same B-pillar complaint with my TLS. As far as the rear window creaks are concerned, try pressing against the upper corners of the rear window glass, see if you can make it squeak that way.

 

Man, all you guys complaining about noises and rattles must be contagious--now my car is making them noises, rattles, and squeaks too (besides the moonroof shade noise)!!

Stop spreading that stuff around; heck, next thing I know, my tranny will probably go bad next...

Tony

 

Blaming US manufacturing may be over-simplifying the problem. To keep it simple you have two key areas when making a consumer product, at least from an engineering standpoint. You have product design and manufacturing, plus the huge gray area where manufacturing and design interface and overlap. If you want to make profits from your product, you dont design something that isnt economical to manufacture. More often than not, manufacturing flaws can be attributed to design flaws or defficiencies. For example, if you design something that has hard to fabricate reliably, is that a manufacturing problem or a design flaw, or both? You could also look at QC, but based on the fact that many of these flaws or defects are wide spread, I think its safe to say that its not a QC problem or specifically a manufacturing problem. Its quite possible that flaws were design oversights (at least for the squeaky seat belt and rattle moonroof) that are more economical to ignore than to correct. I think rather than faulting manufacturing or design, its probably the interface between the two thats faulty. Keep in mind, a car is not just designed to be driven but also to be manufactured.

 

Sleeper: you're absolutely right, we can't blame manufacturing for design faults. But the TL is also designed in the US, so...

 

The key phrase is "seem to be". Just like the guy that came on here and said his Uncles(?) Acura TL that was built in Japan had a much better build than his Acura TL that was built in the US. Turns out all TL's are built in the US. Even if the TL was built in Japan that wouldn't determine anything. That's just one car among thousands. I think we are too quick to blame every little rattle on American workers. A rattle on a Japanese built car is just overlooked.(My friends Prelude has one that couldn't be fixed by the deler.) But if's it's on American built Japanese car then it's "The American worker."


There's a lot of things in life that seem to be this or that but in reality are not. I ask someone again to supply me with scientific data that indicates that American made Hondas and Acuras are more poorly made than their Japanese counterparts. "Hear say" and "seems to be" just doesn't cut it.

I agree, there's nothing anti American about your statement. It's just not a factual statement.

 

TLs are designed in the US? Does that mean the exterior design, the knobs on the radio, engine, squeaky seatbelts, or all of the above? Interesting but I wonder how much autonomy they really have over the any part of the design anyway.

Of course you could always ask the question why are Japanese cars generally more reliable than American cars? The next question that comes to mind is why are American cars the best selling cars in the world? Is a good car design one that is not faulty or is it one that makes huge profits?

In my opinion the TL is a masterpiece of engineering compromises. A fine balance of price, performance, size, styling, and luxury.

Who knows what complexities the design team had to deal with. Do they have the same resources their Japanese couterparts have? Market timing, scheduling, budget, manufacturing, bureaucracy, etc...In reality the design of something as complex as a car would never stop, there are always things you can improve and optimize, unless someone draws an arbitrary line in the sand...good enough.

Anyone that does engineering design...at least anyone thats good at engineering design knows that the devil is in the details. Its that last 10% of the design that requires 90% of the effort. Costs go up exponentially the closer you get to 100% design.

 

The seat belt adjustor on my TLS (driver side) has some
sqeaking noise too. I was never able to reproduce
it at dealership, so I just leave it like that for now.

Here are other squeaking noise:
1) driver side dash - much better now after some padding
was inserted between the instrument cluster panel and
soft vinyl dash board. But it squeaks occassionally.
2) Seat belt buckle - I tried WD40 on buckle base and it
doesn't seem to work. Maybe I need to put some inside
the buckle.

As for made-in-USA statement, I originally had the same
feel when I got my 98 Accord EX V6 back in 98. It had so many
rattle and squeak. But at the end, the car is still running
good after 64K mi. Engine, transmission are still working well.
At least (knocks wood) I or my wife never need to call tow-truck. But my
friends' new european luxuary BMW or Audi had engine trouble,
battery trouble, etc that stop them from driving.
That might be minor but causes you a lot of inconvenience.

As for quality, it is more on the Honda's design and assembly procedure.
Today's Honda uses more snap than screw. Just like putting a model
car together. Snapping is much faster than tightening up
screws and shorten assembly time. Hence more squeak
and rattle. The 2000 loaner Integra I got last weekend has
dashbroad squeaking too. So what can I say.

In any case, I still like my TLS, very powerful car, good
value and handle really well as a mid-size sedan. Although
the AC still yet to be fixed. :o

Just my thought

-- william

 

Ha ha, as we say around the lab: "The first 90% of the project takes 90% of the time; the last 10% of the project takes the other 90% of the time."

Steveb: Sorry for getting so worked up; I was just annoyed that you used the "anti-American" stereotype to put down an opinion. I think that a political view is never a valid reason to silence anyone.

On the other hand... funny thing, hearsay. Especially regarding consumer products like cars. What people say tend to be based on a generally true characteristic of the car. If the TLS is generally well made, you would expect to hear more of "it's so smooth" or "it's so quiet" instead of "where's that @#*! squeak coming from" in this forum.

Is this attributable to the US manufacturing or design? Maybe not, but it seems awfully coincidental, don't you think? Circumstantial evidence is not evidence, but it should raise your curiosity a bit.

 

I have rattles above my deck around the a/c control. Is this a common area?

 

I've never owned an American car. I've always bought Japanese cars because they are more reliable. I'm not the type of consumer that buys American just to buy American. I think if I buy Japanese it sends a signal to US car company's to shape up. That's the American way and that's what competition is all about. I think that's been occurring already since the mid 80's because US cars have improved during that time.(Although they are still behind Japanese cars.)

I still consider my TL-S to be a Japanese car even though it was made in the US.( Just like Camry's and Accords.) Consumer Reports data indicates that reliability is inline with Japanese made cars. I think that's evidence it's not the American worker at fault. Maybe it's management? Maybe it's the desire of American company's to sacrifice long term reliability for short term profits to satisfy shareholders?

People tend to be much more vocal about problems they are having with a product or service they buy. They are less likely to praise a good product or service. I know this firsthand from owning a video game specialty store. You pay $30K plus for something it should be a good product.

If I didn't know about my friends Prelude and Maxima with rattles I would probably agree with you. I think you can find a car with rattles among every make including Japanese, American and German.

 

steveb:

That may be so..... but recently, I was at a dealership to service my TL and observed a couple of TLs on the showroom floor.... I was surprised to find that the gap on the trunk was uneven on either side of the car (the gap on the right side was visibly larger than the gap on the left)..... I was shocked since I normally associated that with Chevy cavaliers and Dodge Intrepids (I have clearly noticed such un-symmetric gaps in those cars).... I did not find this in the RL that was also on the showroom floor, nor in the RSX which was also on display - both of those cars happen to be assembled in Japan..... I then went around the other TLs in the dealership and found a lot of these visible imperfections in the TLs/CLs.....but could not find a single visible imperfection in any of the RLs or the RSXs or the older Integras.....

On a similar vein, make a round through a Toyota dealership and oberve the much cheaper Echos and older Tercels (assembled in Japan)...., where you will never find such in-consistencies......I have consciously observed it....

Hopefully, these un-usual observations would not translate into long-term reliability issues..... data from Consumer Reports et al, say, that they have not....

My TL on the other hand seems to be a rare exception, since the gaps are consistent and symmetric all around the vehicle !!!