pumpin the bass, hearing rattles
12-19-2008, 12:39 AM
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pumpin the bass, hearing rattles
Ok so my bass is pretty much always all the way up cause it sounds GREAT...that boss sound system is just perfect..anywho..im startin to hear some rattles comin from the back somewhere AND a high pitched rattle/ slash buzz comin from around my navi..gonna put on a song and start holdin parts down until i find um..any ideas where to start? i was thinkin the thing around the sub..but no clue for the front..
12-19-2008, 10:02 AM
#5
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As to your problem, you need to find whats causing the rattle. Pull the sub cover off and see if it goes away. Also crawl in your trunk with the sound up and see if you can pin point something in the trunk causing it.
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12-19-2008, 12:51 PM
#10
Scooby doobie crusin
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the bose dosnt sound all the bad the the d3 installed (better equalizer settings) i also have bass blockers on all the speakers, my tweeters help too. i disconnected the stock sub and have 2 12's for some bass
12-20-2008, 11:20 PM
#11
2003 TL-p
i kept all my stock speakers and put a Kenwood Excelon KDC-X492 head unit in. i got the stock Bose speakers to sound way better, but one problem was that the bass would start rattling the car apart. lol. but i fixed my bass problem with just a few settings and my car doesn't rattle no were nearl as much, and at the same time i got cleaner and harder hitting bass.
this is what i did.
bass+ 6 , mid +2, treb +3 - and pumped everything too the sub ( bass mid and treb yes i know it sounds like a crazy idea) as well as pumping everything to the doors.
but my unit has this setting were it pumps a complete through sound of all the tones in the song to the sub and door speakers (no filters). you need to make sure that the sub woffer's volume is 0, that way any of the treb doesn't over power the door speakers. once i did this the bass was like in syc with the doors and it sounded so much better than before without rattling the hell out of everything. yea if u stick ur head in the trunk you hear everything but the bass like over powers the treb.
i know this sounds like a crazy idea that prob wont work - but whatever it did it made it sound like i had two 10 inches in there! i also forced the door speakers to pump more bass which must help it. when i first put my new head unit in, it sounded like ass unit i EQ'ed it. i was ready to go out and get new speakers but i got the stock Bose speakers to sound better than i could have imagined.
using Bass Mekanik tests the door speakers are able to go down to 1 hz at a volume of 27 at bass +8 and not blow up. same goes for the sub in the back. At the same time i can still get a massage in the drivers seat and not rattle the car apart
pretty much what i forced it to do was like having four 6 inch woffers and one 8 inch woffer. so it sounds close to having a big one in the trunk. i spent hours tuning my system and this was only way to make it sound good.
bottem line is that the Bose speakers perform great at ultra low freq but are not good at hitting hard notes - like a techo beat. if u want it to hit as hard as it does a great job at low freq u need to get new subs. but the first thing you always need to do is rip out the crappy Bose unit and EQ box and ur good to go for the most part. take out the limiters of the Bose EQ and bring these speakers to life. sorry for this super long post.
this is what i did.
bass+ 6 , mid +2, treb +3 - and pumped everything too the sub ( bass mid and treb yes i know it sounds like a crazy idea) as well as pumping everything to the doors.
but my unit has this setting were it pumps a complete through sound of all the tones in the song to the sub and door speakers (no filters). you need to make sure that the sub woffer's volume is 0, that way any of the treb doesn't over power the door speakers. once i did this the bass was like in syc with the doors and it sounded so much better than before without rattling the hell out of everything. yea if u stick ur head in the trunk you hear everything but the bass like over powers the treb.
i know this sounds like a crazy idea that prob wont work - but whatever it did it made it sound like i had two 10 inches in there! i also forced the door speakers to pump more bass which must help it. when i first put my new head unit in, it sounded like ass unit i EQ'ed it. i was ready to go out and get new speakers but i got the stock Bose speakers to sound better than i could have imagined.
using Bass Mekanik tests the door speakers are able to go down to 1 hz at a volume of 27 at bass +8 and not blow up. same goes for the sub in the back. At the same time i can still get a massage in the drivers seat and not rattle the car apart
pretty much what i forced it to do was like having four 6 inch woffers and one 8 inch woffer. so it sounds close to having a big one in the trunk. i spent hours tuning my system and this was only way to make it sound good.
bottem line is that the Bose speakers perform great at ultra low freq but are not good at hitting hard notes - like a techo beat. if u want it to hit as hard as it does a great job at low freq u need to get new subs. but the first thing you always need to do is rip out the crappy Bose unit and EQ box and ur good to go for the most part. take out the limiters of the Bose EQ and bring these speakers to life.
sorry for this super long post.
12-20-2008, 11:27 PM
#12
Low & Slow w/Dubz On My
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yea ok the stock sub may sound nice but it doesnt hold the power a individual 10" OR 12" sub in a box holds...to much rattle for the dazzle....u may have to dynamat or even find the cause to ur problem which i did when i had a 12" sub and itz all in the trunk liner...i had mad rattling in the trunk but i did it the ghetto way and put some temp. towlels and the rattle went away....
12-20-2008, 11:32 PM
#13
2003 TL-p
yea you can do that but i got my rattles to go away from tuning it. i know its hard to believe, but the difference is huge. yes our stock system doesnt have the power of a 10 or 12 but in some cases it sounds like it at low freq. it doesnt hit as hard a powered 12 inch.
i am looking to upgrade to get a better punch, but i was super surprised at what i was able to do with the stock speakers.
i am looking to upgrade to get a better punch, but i was super surprised at what i was able to do with the stock speakers.
12-20-2008, 11:39 PM
#14
2003 TL-p
but im wondering if what i did can be done to a more powerful system and get the same results ? its mainly resulting in a super clean bass that doesnt seem to penetrate the cars metal frame, but more like it penetrates the air and disperses the sound over a larger area. Rather than concentrating inside the car which is what the Bose tries to do. but at the same time it sounds much better. very hard to explain.
12-21-2008, 12:10 AM
#16
2003 TL-p
yea i would think that, maybe look into building a box for them. but i saw this one guy had three 10 or 12 inch on the rear shelf. i mean talk about some major rattling.
if you got more than 100 watts RMS on the rear deck i dont think tuning the system like i did is going to work out them rattles haha.
if you got more than 100 watts RMS on the rear deck i dont think tuning the system like i did is going to work out them rattles haha.
12-21-2008, 12:40 PM
#17
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gold: You might be slowly killing your sub by not low-passing the signal.
The thing about rattling is that you need to add weight. Use sound deadening to add weight to whatever part of the car. My old car I went crazy with trying to eliminate rattles and intermittent noises: I used liquid sound deadening and "painted" my trunk and the floorboard (carpet removed), used solid deadening behind plastic panels & in the doors, added expanding foam in my rear deck (spray it in and it expands into foam and fills all those gaps), and also expanding foam behind my license plate (<---the most annoying rattle of all).
What you want to do is keep the sound on the inside of the car no matter what. So you add weight which will help reduce resonances caused by sound waves and very little energy is lost trying to vibrate "the car" vs. "the air". A car with no rattles with no audio system changes: bass sounds a lot cleaner and may even give the impression of sounding louder.
Problem with getting rid of intermittent rattles is locating them...but to speed up the process you can turn off your speakers so just the sub is enabled (e.g., get rid of the high frequency audio). Don't think there's an easy way to do that on the stock Bose stuff save for turning treble all the way down, but disconnecting the speakers yields is ultimately what you want to do.
I used to be car audio head but now I just take it easy.
The thing about rattling is that you need to add weight. Use sound deadening to add weight to whatever part of the car. My old car I went crazy with trying to eliminate rattles and intermittent noises: I used liquid sound deadening and "painted" my trunk and the floorboard (carpet removed), used solid deadening behind plastic panels & in the doors, added expanding foam in my rear deck (spray it in and it expands into foam and fills all those gaps), and also expanding foam behind my license plate (<---the most annoying rattle of all).
What you want to do is keep the sound on the inside of the car no matter what. So you add weight which will help reduce resonances caused by sound waves and very little energy is lost trying to vibrate "the car" vs. "the air". A car with no rattles with no audio system changes: bass sounds a lot cleaner and may even give the impression of sounding louder.
Problem with getting rid of intermittent rattles is locating them...but to speed up the process you can turn off your speakers so just the sub is enabled (e.g., get rid of the high frequency audio). Don't think there's an easy way to do that on the stock Bose stuff save for turning treble all the way down, but disconnecting the speakers yields is ultimately what you want to do.
I used to be car audio head but now I just take it easy.
12-21-2008, 06:19 PM
#20
2003 TL-p
i tried somthing new - phase reverse - dont what it is but it sounds a lot better.
so now i got the sub filtered so its only 120 hz and below, thru signal on the doors, bass +8 mid +1 and treb +2. sub volume is +1 and using phase reverse.
i get a few more rattles but i think running a thru signal into the sub just covers the rattles up.
any one know what this phase reverse is? what ever it is it made it sound a lot better in the bass.
so now i got the sub filtered so its only 120 hz and below, thru signal on the doors, bass +8 mid +1 and treb +2. sub volume is +1 and using phase reverse.
i get a few more rattles but i think running a thru signal into the sub just covers the rattles up.
any one know what this phase reverse is? what ever it is it made it sound a lot better in the bass.
12-22-2008, 07:45 AM
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gold: This is only speculation but basically your sub is only designed to run at low frequencies; and when you ask it to replicate higher frequencies, you're asking a lot of it. This may be the reason why the rattles have declined...because instead of playing the stuff it should be playing, you're asking for it to play stuff it shouldn't play and probably putting more stress on it which may not be evident early on. Yes, there is a high frequency rolloff but you can't physically realize a "zero" at infinite (in terms of the transfer function). There may even be a passive filter in the sub itself (I've never taken one apart) but I would still recommend against giving the sub what the specs say it can't replicate.
Keep in mind that "rattle" does not equate to a bad sub. Unless the sub is physically damaged, a rattle is just external noise produced as a consequence of the varying sound pressure levels that the sub generates which can be amplified if a certain structure isn't secure. So instead of messing with the generator (sub) and the signals sent to it, troubleshoot the rattle on-location.
Phase reverse: I'm guessing this is a 180 degree reversal in phase of the audio signals sent to the sub. This pretty much means connecting the positive cable of the amp to the negative terminal of the sub and vice versa. In effect this makes the sub's cone travel the opposite direction than if positive were to positive & negative to negative.
The cone of the sub pushes in & out depending on the voltage applied which in turn compresses & expands the air (creating sound waves). You don't want one speaker to compress the air while the other expands the air because that's like adding -1 and +1...you get 0. So when you have two speakers out of phase, that's what happens and is more prevalent at lower frequencies (bass) because usually bass is center stage & the longer waves sustain the effect.
Generally your bass sounds horrible and might be practically non-existent while higher frequencies might give you the "in the back of your head" kinda sound. What's happening is cancellation. If you reverse the phase of one, then you get reinforcement. So in your case this phase reversal has helped you to reduce cancellation. Cancellation can also occur just due to the right reflections received at different times. You can sit at different locations in your car and the bass might sound more existent at one than the other. So with some phase adjustment you're essentially trying to find that perfect timing to give you the most reinforcement and less cancellation.
Keep in mind that "rattle" does not equate to a bad sub. Unless the sub is physically damaged, a rattle is just external noise produced as a consequence of the varying sound pressure levels that the sub generates which can be amplified if a certain structure isn't secure. So instead of messing with the generator (sub) and the signals sent to it, troubleshoot the rattle on-location.
Phase reverse: I'm guessing this is a 180 degree reversal in phase of the audio signals sent to the sub. This pretty much means connecting the positive cable of the amp to the negative terminal of the sub and vice versa. In effect this makes the sub's cone travel the opposite direction than if positive were to positive & negative to negative.
The cone of the sub pushes in & out depending on the voltage applied which in turn compresses & expands the air (creating sound waves). You don't want one speaker to compress the air while the other expands the air because that's like adding -1 and +1...you get 0. So when you have two speakers out of phase, that's what happens and is more prevalent at lower frequencies (bass) because usually bass is center stage & the longer waves sustain the effect.
Generally your bass sounds horrible and might be practically non-existent while higher frequencies might give you the "in the back of your head" kinda sound. What's happening is cancellation. If you reverse the phase of one, then you get reinforcement. So in your case this phase reversal has helped you to reduce cancellation. Cancellation can also occur just due to the right reflections received at different times. You can sit at different locations in your car and the bass might sound more existent at one than the other. So with some phase adjustment you're essentially trying to find that perfect timing to give you the most reinforcement and less cancellation.
12-22-2008, 10:24 AM
#23
The Dumb One
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i have to agree and disagree with you guys...
The Bose System is NOT grade A material.
but for those of us who dont own the TL as a second car, or have not previously paid 25k for a car, know what its ACTUALLY like to have a crappy sound system.
with that being said. there are FAR FAR worse then the Bose in the TL and im quite suprised by its clarity, even with radio play. i think it holds up pretty nice
The Bose System is NOT grade A material.
but for those of us who dont own the TL as a second car, or have not previously paid 25k for a car, know what its ACTUALLY like to have a crappy sound system.
with that being said. there are FAR FAR worse then the Bose in the TL and im quite suprised by its clarity, even with radio play. i think it holds up pretty nice
12-22-2008, 04:11 PM
#24
2003 TL-p
gold: This is only speculation but basically your sub is only designed to run at low frequencies; and when you ask it to replicate higher frequencies, you're asking a lot of it. This may be the reason why the rattles have declined...because instead of playing the stuff it should be playing, you're asking for it to play stuff it shouldn't play and probably putting more stress on it which may not be evident early on. Yes, there is a high frequency rolloff but you can't physically realize a "zero" at infinite (in terms of the transfer function). There may even be a passive filter in the sub itself (I've never taken one apart) but I would still recommend against giving the sub what the specs say it can't replicate.
Keep in mind that "rattle" does not equate to a bad sub. Unless the sub is physically damaged, a rattle is just external noise produced as a consequence of the varying sound pressure levels that the sub generates which can be amplified if a certain structure isn't secure. So instead of messing with the generator (sub) and the signals sent to it, troubleshoot the rattle on-location.
Phase reverse: I'm guessing this is a 180 degree reversal in phase of the audio signals sent to the sub. This pretty much means connecting the positive cable of the amp to the negative terminal of the sub and vice versa. In effect this makes the sub's cone travel the opposite direction than if positive were to positive & negative to negative.
The cone of the sub pushes in & out depending on the voltage applied which in turn compresses & expands the air (creating sound waves). You don't want one speaker to compress the air while the other expands the air because that's like adding -1 and +1...you get 0. So when you have two speakers out of phase, that's what happens and is more prevalent at lower frequencies (bass) because usually bass is center stage & the longer waves sustain the effect.
Generally your bass sounds horrible and might be practically non-existent while higher frequencies might give you the "in the back of your head" kinda sound. What's happening is cancellation. If you reverse the phase of one, then you get reinforcement. So in your case this phase reversal has helped you to reduce cancellation. Cancellation can also occur just due to the right reflections received at different times. You can sit at different locations in your car and the bass might sound more existent at one than the other. So with some phase adjustment you're essentially trying to find that perfect timing to give you the most reinforcement and less cancellation.
Keep in mind that "rattle" does not equate to a bad sub. Unless the sub is physically damaged, a rattle is just external noise produced as a consequence of the varying sound pressure levels that the sub generates which can be amplified if a certain structure isn't secure. So instead of messing with the generator (sub) and the signals sent to it, troubleshoot the rattle on-location.
Phase reverse: I'm guessing this is a 180 degree reversal in phase of the audio signals sent to the sub. This pretty much means connecting the positive cable of the amp to the negative terminal of the sub and vice versa. In effect this makes the sub's cone travel the opposite direction than if positive were to positive & negative to negative.
The cone of the sub pushes in & out depending on the voltage applied which in turn compresses & expands the air (creating sound waves). You don't want one speaker to compress the air while the other expands the air because that's like adding -1 and +1...you get 0. So when you have two speakers out of phase, that's what happens and is more prevalent at lower frequencies (bass) because usually bass is center stage & the longer waves sustain the effect.
Generally your bass sounds horrible and might be practically non-existent while higher frequencies might give you the "in the back of your head" kinda sound. What's happening is cancellation. If you reverse the phase of one, then you get reinforcement. So in your case this phase reversal has helped you to reduce cancellation. Cancellation can also occur just due to the right reflections received at different times. You can sit at different locations in your car and the bass might sound more existent at one than the other. So with some phase adjustment you're essentially trying to find that perfect timing to give you the most reinforcement and less cancellation.
this is my current audio tune : bass +8 mid+2 treb +4 , bass center freq is 40 hz, bass Q factor is 1.0, bass extend is set on +20% , high pass filter for sub is 120 hz, sub phase is set on reverse, door speaker are set to bypass high pass filter with a 6 6/9 signal
this tune is about the max for the stock Bose speakers im using.
the only thing i have to adjust is the separate sub woffer volume control -15 to +15. rock and music with weak bass needs about +11 in woffer volume, rap and hip hop bass music needs +1 or -1.
so this set up is pretty nice and the only quick thing i gota do is just turn the sub up or down. it sounds pretty good and i got it to hit pretty hard and i am happier than ever with the sound. real good bass is going to need a box and like two 10 inches.
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