Southbound

I am so bummed! I took delivery of my NEW 02 TLS Tuesday with 16 miles on it, and I had to take it in to the dealer Thursday for a really scary engine noise.

As previously posted, the noise appears between 1k and 2k rmp and only happens during certain temperature ranges. It does not do it stone cold, and it does not do it once the engine has been completely warmed up and driven a few miles. But as soon as the temp guage comes off the cold peg it starts this eratic obnoxious metal to metal sound coming from what sounds like the front valve cover area or underneath the timing belt shroud.

It does this in park or neutral just reving or holding the engine between 1000-2000rpm. (also while driving through these rpms regardles of which gear you are in) It goes away above 3k rmp and completely goes away once the engine is fully up to temp. Then if you let the engine cool down for an hour, it starts all over

Took it to the dealer today who said they would give me the royal treatment and stand behind me completely while diagnosing the problem. WELL, their royal treatment was a POS Chevy Cavalier from Enterprise rent-a-car I called them later in the day to see what they had discovered and they did at least admit that they had heard the horrendous noise but didn't have a clue as to what it was. They said they had four mechanics hovering around it scratching their heads...(and the ABP paint, I'm sure) GREAT! One guy thinks it may be a hydraulic lifter... That scares the hell out of me!

Unless they are ABSOLUTELY sure, I don't want some jokers just tearing apart my car as if it had 100k miles on it. Once they break an oil seal, it will NEVER be the same. This should be their last resort... And if it actually is a lifter, that is just inexcusable! BUT, How can a bad lifter start out OK cold and then go through a bad temp range and then settle back down? There's got to be some kind of EGR metal valve or other type gag beating itself up or something during those temp ranges. I can almost hear it "switch" quiet above and below the rpm thresholds. PLEASE don't tell me that I need a valve job or new bearings at 16 miles!!!!

Whatever it is, it has done it from the very beginning. I test drove it hot before I bought it, so it didn't do it until 3 hours after I got home... Obviously Acura has p!ss poor quality control off of the assembly line. Do they test out every vehicle made, or just do a random sample? In any case, this is just unacceptable. I don't know what kind of recourse I have, but if they don't find something simple that ACTUALLY fixes it, I'm going to be hell to deal with... At this point I want my 165,000 mile Sentra back! At least it was paid for and NEVER went back to the dealer for anything.

I can now see why some guys are justifying the purchase of a Maxima instead and why someone just had the happiest day of their life by selling his TLS today.

Sorry for the rant again, but I was Sooooo looking forward to this car, but now I would advise any new prospective buyers to beware of this and any other Acura box out there. Between the tranny issues and all of the other squawks on this board, I guess I should have listened better. I'm finding out more and more that this car is made for someone who likes performance, but is ALSO willing to put up with constant visits to the dealer and constant attention to upkeep. For those who just want a car that is enjoyable AND RELIABLE to drive WITHOUT worries and intermittent problems, I'd seriously reconsider. MY $33K worth of advice

rominl

sorry to hear about the big trouble on the engine. however, i am not being an ass here (as i reallly feel sorry for you), but you shouldn't really judge the whole acura tls line with your problem and other few tranny probems in the forum.

like many people have said before, every single car out there has their own problems. squeakings and rattlings are the least to say. there are some tranny problems and i have heard that on nissan as well. your engine problem is special and i have heard about dead engine on lexus as well.

while i do agree totally that the built quality of acura is not up to par with companies like lexus and bimmer, i think it's a bit hard to say that acura are trash in terms of quality control. after all if you look at the sales of tls, there are still plenty of happy users out there despites the few failures.

like i said i am not blaming you here. i totally understand your situation and i hope your car would be fixed asap to your satisfaction.

hemants

romini,

I feel your pain and I've been there before (not with my TLS but with my A4) and right now there is nothing you want more than to vent your anger and frustration.

But just remember, statistics show that on average, Acura owners will have fewer such experiences than most other manufacturers except maybe Lexus. But this is a statistic based on large numbers. Every distribution has it's tails and you just happen to be one of the unlucky people that is an anomaly.

Anyhow, hopefully everything will be fixed and you will enjoy many years of trouble free driving.

In the meantime, hang in there and while it's okay to express your anger, don't be too rash to act on it.

Beiruty

I went through this... I got my engine ripped to the ground and rebuilt with a new lower block at just 3000 miles, just after 2 months of ownership. 6 weeks in the shop. The cause of the problem , seveer engine leak :yack:

Kramer

Southbound,

If it did this the day you took it home you should demand a new car. There is no reason to accept this type of trouble from a car you just took off of the lot.

tgif

Bring the TL back to MADE IN JAPAN

Southbond, who is your dealership?

Bitium

I had the same noise, but mine was at 2.6 rpms. Not matter what gear just reving through would make the noise. In my car the noise started when a mechanic remove my manifold to clean the EGR port. The noise when away after like 3 weeks after. Doug said it was a resonance noise. nothing that would damage the engine. Well is gone and has never come back. Tell the mechanics to check the manifold and the manifold gasket. BTW my car had 58k miles when it happen. Hope this helps.

billyvader

You'll know when they have the perfect car out. You know how you will? There won't be a warranty!

neuronbob

Southbound, I agree with the advice that you need to demand a new car. A problem like this is unacceptable in a car fresh off the lot. I'm sorry to hear about your problem. I had a similar situation when I bought my previous car, a Dodge Intrepid. At 600 miles, the transmission failed without provocation. The dealer wanted to fix the tranny and put me back on the road. I demanded either a new tranny, a new car, or more strenuous measures. I ultimately received a new transmission, which worked well for the two years I owned the car. You have rights in this situation and you need to exercise them. Don't ask for the car back! :wow:

rominl

ummmm hey... i wasn't the guy complaining

Southbound

WEll, I'm still driving a POS Chevy cavalier for the weekend. They still don't know the cause of the problem, but admit to its existence. At least they aren't trying to tell me that "it's normal" (yet). They say they are working with Acura technical support over the phone to help diagnose it?

I spoke to the service manager today regarding my concerns about the mechanics just tearing things apart at random and going on a fishing expedition to fix the problem. I don't need them creating more problems than they solve. I said that tearing apart anything that had an oil gasket should be passed by me first. I may be wrong, But I just can't see it being some major interior engine problem when it only happens during a certain warmup procedure. But while it is going on, it sounds like marbles being flung around inside of the valve cover area. Definitely an eratic metal on metal sound.

As some helpful folks have suggested here, they are now going down the road of thinking that it is detonation caused by some malfunctioning sensor somewhere during that warmup period. This was apparantely suggested to them by the Acura technical support people. Of course Acura support people can't hear the sound themselves. I've heard pinging before in other cars going up grades in hot weather etc., but this is REALLY loud, and happens under no load just reving! With the insulated hood closed you can hear it coming out from under the engine, but with the hood open it sure sounds like it comes from the valve cover area.

I have read the threads on this board regarding engine knock ,etc. but can someone please tell me how loud this knock could sound coming from this high performance engine? With the hood open, would it sound like marbles beating around against the metal valve covers? Could a defective EGR valve have this kind of metallic clatter?

I would love to take the advice given to demand a new car, but it ain't gonna happen. Once you've signed the contract, and have had it registered it cannot be resold as a new car again. Also, in California there is a no "cooling off" clause in the contracts that essentially state... You sign it, you've bought it! I wish it were like Circuit City, where I could just take the defective TV back with no questions asked and trade it for another new one, but from what I understand cars don't work that way. There is a lemon law in California, but I've got a LOT of more hoops to jump through before I would qualify for any relief there.

The only good news that I have to report is that the Service manager agreed with my approach. (if I can believe him) He claimed that they would continue to work with Acura Tech support and not just go on a "Turkey shoot" to try and fix the problem. I emphasised that my desire was to get it fixed correctly and carefully, NOT in a hurry. I can drive the hobby Cavalier for a month if that's what it takes. I am still holding out for some kind of relatively simple fix. It is easy enough to duplicate... so I won't be driving it off of the lot again until they have proven to me that it is fixed. If that never occurs, than perhaps I'll end up in the arbitration bullsh*t. LET'S hope not...

Sorry for the long rant again, but you guys have REALLY helped to calm me down. Thanks rominl for keeping my perspective. I am an anomaly... The bummer part of that is that anomalies are just statistics like bad diseases, UNTIL THEY HAPPEN TO YOU... then it's no longer just on paper! As you've all probably noticed, I'm such an anal person when it comes to things that really mean a lot to me. I'm trying to make this a learning experience to help me better cope with these type of experiences in the future.

Daverman, at least I used a few paragraphs this time... I REALLY loved the Aegean Blue choice that I ended up making and still love the TLS "On Paper" I just want my "Sweet 16" back in one piece, still a virgin, so that I can truly love her... I'm sure I'll need to wax her good whenever that day comes... Which Zaino products should I use, and are they only available through mail order? Sorry for the really really long rant, but thanks for the support TEAM TLS! Statsboro Blues....Stormy Monday...

bebber

Sorry to hear the news man. I've had strange problems with my Tl too. The windshield washer pump didn't work and there was a tear in the leather in the rear seat armrest, and a scratch in the shifter plate, all straight from the factory in a brand new car! I also had a failed parking brake and a persistant noise in the back that just won't go away no matter what they try.

I'm not thrilled by the car's quality at this point, but I do think that people like you and I are the unlucky ones. Amazing but true, Acura still has one of the best reputations for build quality and reliability. I know I have bad luck in things. I don't think I'll ever buy a lottery ticket.

Chevy Cavalier rental car eh? Sounds like you go to Weir Canyon Acura.





Chevy Cavalier rental car eh?

Squidboy

Hey Southbond,

A few people on this board who had their car in the shop for a long period of time got Acura to pay their car payment for the month. Give the Acura customer service line a call and whine and complain and see what they will do for you.

BLEXV6

I can only imagine you're dissapointment. I will tell you, if it is indeed a complete engine replacement problem, I would be a complete prick, to Acura, and demand a new car. If its a sensor problem that can be repaired, I would accept that. As for the Cavalier, I think I would freak on the dealership as well and go see my salesman. That is not even close to comparable. At the very least they should give you an RSX, or maybe even the RSX-S. Good luck buddy.

tea elle

Which dealer are you involved with?

Bitium

when I heard the noise the first time, I was so sure it was a metal to metal contact or like you said marbles beating around against the metal valve cover. It went away by it self. A defective EGR would not make that kind of noise. They could also check the valve springs.

Southbound

Well, they are still rolling the dice on what is causing the problem. I went by the service dept. today (saturday) and checked on the status. Of course no management was there, but I was able to look under the hood and it has been gutted! I'm back to being really upset again. The car shouldn't have been this dismantled until my 105K tuneup!

Some advisor told me that he heard them on the phone talking about ordering a new ECM and fuel/air management valve. They are still going down the detonation route. I have never seen so many screws and shrouds and crap just laying around the shop bench etc. Not to mention the tool caddy 3 inches away from being rammed into the side of my car

They all admit that they have never heard this problem before and don't really have a clue where to proceed. Meanwhile they are just tearing stuff apart and fooling around. How many screws will NOT get put back where they belong? How many engine rattles and bogus "check engine" lights will I end up with? How many door dings? I say proceed with giving me a new car! PUT THIS ONE BACK ON THE TRAIN TO OHIO AND USE IT FOR CRASH TEST DATA!

I left a long stern message with the Service manager about how someone has to step forward and admit that this is a lemon (if no one knows how to fix it) and that someone has to make this situation right! That someone should be the dealer or Acura/Honda Motor corp. NOT the customer riding around in a Cavalier while he's paying double insurance and car payments! I want a buyback and a new car or at a minimum some kind of compensation if they do actually fix it within a week... More rants to follow, I'm sure... I'm the first guy to praise something, but I'm also the first guy to ***** when it's not right... I'll either be praising or *****ing more about Acura of Mission Viejo next week....

Bitium

They usually do a very good job when taking and putting things together. My engine has been taking apart a few times. The only problem I had was a very small oil leak after they put a new tranny in. I took it back and the had to take the transmission apart from the engine and the problem was rear end seal. fixed it then put back and it was fine.

Southbound

Thanks Bitium for trying to reassure me. But you kind of made my point. First, There should have never been any need for a new tranny, and second, when they replaced it they created an oil leak at the rear seal... That's not exactly what I hope for in a new car that is less than one year old. Like I said, who knows how many screws and washers and strain reliefs, etc are missing? How many kinked wiring harnesses, or bent misfitting parts? You may never know until 50,000 miles when the warranty is up and other problems arise...

I know I'm coming off with a pessimistic attitude, but right now that's just the way I feel... It's going to be a long while before Acura can impress me with their design, or service/customer support satisfaction... I WOULD LOVE TO BE PROVEN WRONG!

Thanks anyway to all who have offered me some hope and support. Right now, Acura may suck in my mind, but this board is solid!

bluedragon

I AGREE,DEMAND FOR A NEW CAR OR JUST TERMINATE THE CONTRACT, YOU HAD PROBLEMS AS SOON AS YOU TOOK OFF THE LOT, WHAT THE FU%K NO WAY, THEY CAN HAVE THAT ONE BACK, WHAT HAPPEN TO THAT ACURA TLC TREATMENT THEY ADVERTISE

Bitium

Well I was comparing them to other mechanics and myself. Second the transmission was replaced because of an accident so don't asume that "There should have never been any need for a new tranny" Third I was trying to implied that they did not try to blame it on me or anything else, unless they were sure. They could have said it was the oil pan from the accident or so on. They took the car back and re-check the entire job, then they remove the oil pan to find out where the oil was coming from? no luck there then they decied to remove the transmission, they found that the rear seal moved after the transmission was put back. Last my car has 65k miles and this was done when the car had 54k miles. Insurance paid for the new transmission.

TypeSAcura

God, why are there so many problems with this piece of sh!t car.

Seems the tls either has a tranny, engine, paint problem or a combination of them.

This is the last car i am going to buy that is made in america.

Makes me have nightmares everynight.

Wash n Wax

Cavaliers aren't THAT bad...



Hey it could be worse...they could have given you this to drive...



Hang in there. Acura will take care of business.