kevcarart.com

As you may or may not know, I have been preparing to sell my car and get a '03 TL Type S.. but now there is another contender.. the new '02 or '03 Audi A4 either the 1.8T (4 cyl) or 3.0 (6 cyl) (and before you mention the other cars, I have driven most all of them, BMW 330, 325, Lexus IS3, GS4, Inf I35, Maxima, Altima.. and I'm not real hot on the G35).. so Audi is looking better and better.

I have not driven the 3.0 yet, but I was impressed with what their little four banger can do performance wise.. not bad at the start, but the torque curve really levels off quickly... so I'm thinking I may have to drive the 3.0 six cylinder, cause I just can't imagine buying a four cylinder car after being a V8 guy all these years.

A respectable price comparison, would be the TL-S with NAV($32k-$33k) and the Audi 3.0 Quattro (around $33k-34k).... both very nice.. wonder if anyone else is debating these duo?

I don't plan to pay this much of course, just getting prices off net.

Things I've considered that kind of make me lean towards either:
PROS:

Audi: reputation, German automobile, awesome reviews, always on BMW 330 tail, free maintenance, Quattro safety, dual climate control, very nice qaulity... I've not been on a forum to see the owner gripes yet.

Acura: reputation, Honda associated, very good reviews, loaded to the heels..... good mileage, comfortable, larger interior/car.

CONS:
Audi smaller car, extras add up fast (sports package, moonroof, xenon, leather. extra $$$ with extras)

Acura tranny, paint problems (I've read here), FWD ( I can live with FWD, but prefer RWD)

what would you guys do?
PHOTOS OF THE AUDI FOR YA:

Alexxx

My Acura is just great. I have no tranny problems, I have no paint problems. Extras....Xenon....that's already included in the TL/TL-S

Mods are not expensive and with mods on an Acura, the sky is the limit!

There are a few bad apples. The people with the tranny problems is only a small number and I think it all reflects on when the car was manufactured. Audi may have their own problems.

city001

Don't forget Audi has major problems too...more than japanese parts... and it cost a lot more if the audi tranny goes out.

city

bkasisch

Two things: I think you need to compare a comparably equipped Audi with the Acura. Add the leather, the handling package, the XID headlight, Also take a look at what the dealer has available). When you compare apples to apples I think you will find the Audi is 5-10k more.

Also compare physical dimensions. My feeling is the TL is larger. Not a lot bigger but just enough so I don't feel cramped.
(But then again I'm 6' 2" and I've found that 1 inch in leg room and hip room means a lot to me. Your results may vary)

N3W73|2

if price wasn't an issue i would go with a loaded audi over the TLS in a minute. I like the size of the audi much better. More of a sports car feel with the smaller size. Plus it looks classier. oh and it's GERMAN

samkws

if u have a family to take on...buy the TL-S

if not, u can live without the rear leg room and pick the A4!!

i reallie like both cars...

Type SSSS

i agree. german cars (we have 3) just have an overall "feel" about them. its hard to explain but while our passat has pretty much none of the features as the tls, it feels like it is built better, and rides nicer. also the 1.8t motor is tuneable for huge hp gains.

i do think that comparable options will cost significantly more and all being said i still decided to keep the acura. they're reputation wins hands down over audi imo + for the $$$ its a great car.

.000002
GL
lenman

kevcarart.com

Those are some good points.. I did consider the size of the cars, legroom is very important because I'm 6'6"... I was SURPRISED at the amount of legroom the Audi had, I actaully moved the seat all the way back and had to move t forward to drive!!!! WOW!

Our audi dealer has a ton of the models, (not to mentione the 'models' selling them)

it's just the options WOULD add up!

Jaydef

i think the A4 is alrite, but, honestly, i think the old A4 is alot better looking. the back of the new one is wayyyy too friendly, where as the old A4 has avery agressive rear with the "integrated spoiler" thats y i like the looks of the Tl rear, and not the Cl rear.... i think that the 1.8T wud b better, bc its a lot less, and i think they make alotta superchargers for it that can easily bring it past v6 HP levels. the price of a 1.8T w/ charger prolly comes out to the same price of a 3.0, but the 1.8T will have just as much HP with the charger, but be alot lighter on weight, and therefore be even faster.... just like all the new accords u see that r hooked up r usually I4s bc they make a supercharger for the I4s, not the V6s. An I4 with supercharger is SICK, so much HP with so little weight.

thejavagod

Get the Audi, the Acura is built really cheaply! Now my entire rear deck panel is rattling and squeaking with the music, it SUCKS... I have not found this happening in much cheaper cars.

and I took some time to look under there - man! it is made out of what looks like the cheapest $hit on earth!!! I could break stuff there with my little finger! The materials used are too cheap for a 32K car.

I'm thinking of getting an Audi or BMW myself but decided to wait a few months.

evolaerok

Hell yeah Audi's have problems! My friend who used to own a S4 had alot of major electrical problems.

lilboykorea

go for tl-s, better lookin car overall

J32A2RULES!

Get the TL-S


Road and Track just did a test on a A4 w/ the 3.0 v6 and
the quattro system and the manual and was quick but not
fast by any means. And they commented on how the engine
felt rather weak on torque till you revved it up, but at least
they said it was a smooth engine.


Don't get me wrong I've seen a new A4 in person and
I think it's gorgeous but dollar for dollar it's difficult to
beat the Tl-S.

tls988

The Audi A4 with the Turbo 4 is thousands more than the Type-S with A/T, Leather,.... Majority of them that I saw in the dealership in my area are about $37,000+. A4 with 3.0 will cost more.
The owner surveys in the April issue of Consumer Report will give you an idea what majority of both Audi and Acura owners think
about the reliability and quality of their vehicles.

simonsez

I am also middle of buying a new ride.
A4 or TL-S.

I would not get the TL-S becuz next year, new generation is coming out. I dont want to regret getting the LAST model for this generation TL.
When you see the specs for TL-S and A4 1.8, there is HUGE HP/Torque difference. however by chipping on 1.8T gives you 42+HP / 100 Torque (dyno proven)
if u want more pwr/speed, go with TL-S,
but if u dont care about the speed, go with A4 3.0 or 1.8T.

btw, A4's HID is much better looking than TL's. and the interior of A4 kicks ass.

http://www.audiworld.com./forum/index.html

that's the forum to Audi cars. you will find ALOT of infos there and seems like NO BODY regrets getting the new A4.

evolaerok

Because it's a Audi forum and of course the owners who paid $37,000 will defend, hell I defend my TL-S....

kevcarart.com

Actually, the A4 1.8T starts at $26k.

if been trolling on the Audiworld site, and see a ton of happy drivers.. a few unhappy, but majority happy.

simonsez

Actually no.
alot of TL owners have been *****ing about rattles and tranny prob.

btw, Audi's Heated seats are Front and rear

Type SSSS

off topic but really nice photo work (i visited your page)

might be interested in some stuff soon. so many vettes...how come?

len

evolaerok

I was referring to the 3.0 I was checking out. Majority here are happy with their rides as well. With any car, there is always a unhappy customer. There are some BMW people who aren't happy as well. MB people, etc... I'm just saying don't just base your decision on a particular site. Of course the people at Audiworld are going to defend their cars, as we do too. Go read Consumer Reports or epinions.com to hear upbiased opinions. That's what I recommend or better yet, drive both and make a list of pros and cons. And your needs and wants with the car.

DHB

We just performed the exact same comparison before buying our 2003 TLS last weekend. We owned a 1997 BMW 528i and I know exactly what everyone means when they talk about the "feel" and precision of German cars. Despite that I feel the TLS does a very good job holding it's own against BMW & Audi. All of the test results will bear out the fact that the Audi A4 with the 3.0 engine is significantly slower than the TLS but handling seems to be slightly better in extreme slalom handling in the A4 (but when would you really be driving like that?). If you are going to do a fair comparison against the TLS w/Navi, then a comparably equipped BMW or A4 with a Nav system has to be in the mix. Comparably equipped BMW 3's and Audi A4's will run about 7-10K more than the Acura TLS w/ Navi and there is generally very little negotiating on price. It is also true that the German Luxo-cars do have a few problems from time to time and ours was no exception. Our $45000.00 528i had an annoying little rattle that they could never seem to fix, a sometimes intermittent cruise control, and once it wouldn't crank. Generally speaking however I believe the BMW's and Audi's are superior in quality and handling to all other makes but there is a very significant up-front price to pay for that sometimes subtle difference. I do miss the free maintenance for the first 36 months we had with the BMW (nice touch) but I can also attest to the high cost of routine maintenance once the warrantly expires. We had to do our first front brake job at 37000 miles and it was $600.00! Little did I know that the braking systems of these ultra performance German cars is designed to wear the rotors at almost the same rate as the pads. This means that you almost always have to change the rotors with every pad change and that's expensive! In addition, much of the handling components are made of aluminum. As such they are easily damaged if they are towed improperly by using conventional methods for normal cars. I almost had 1st hand experience on that one were it not for a knowlegable neighbor.

In the final analysis, I felt that the TLS was the best value overall by a wide margin so I got one! Good luck with your decision but based on the vehicles you are considering, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

evolaerok

Actually, I would rather have rattles and complain about them, rather than calling my friend who has a nice black TL-S, because my 45k S4 won't start and had to be flatbedded in.... Take your front and rear heated seats, I'll keep my 260hp rattler!

SSItls

GO to http://www.goapr.com & check out what you can do to the 1.8 4 or even more fun go with the a6 2.7T which is what I am leaning to for my next ride.

city001

The reason why audis weren't so successful back then..was because of it's problems...it's just not known for it's reliability

Audi became popular again..is because of it's redesign look.. sometimes looks sale...but doesn't mean it will last..

I had two friends who own Audi a4s... end up having tons of problems. both electrical and mechanical... both didn't keep the a4 for long... I could afford s4...and I really wanted that car...but after reading an article about the s4 tiptronic transmission replacement costs 10K over TL's 2K.. I said to myself it's not worth it.. in the long run..... the 1 main reason why bmw, audi's have so much problems is because so much electrical and computer functions... well there are less on japanese counterparts..

So unless u have a big thick pocket, I wouldn't suggest getting an european car.

but if u do...then good for u..and I say goodluck and go for it.

city

hemants

I own both a TLS and a 2001 A4.

I love them both but they are very different cars.

TLS -

raw horsepower
better ergonomics
fully loaded
more comfortable highway cruiser
bigger back seats
nose heavy fwd isn't the greatest when it's wet

A4 -

better handling and more nimble
overall better quality
begs to be tossed around
AWD rocks, that's all I can say
available in a stick

It all comes down to your priorities. If you don't need the bigger back seat, the A4 will be more fun to drive without a doubt.

If you don't need the bigger back seat then the A4 would be more fun for sure. However, like you said, if you absolutely have to have every option available, then the cost of the A4 will add up pretty quickly.

Ultimately, you have to drive both and decide. You can't go wrong either way.

BTW, I'd get the 1.8T and chip it. The smaller engine has much better weight distribution; and make sure you get Quattro, there's no reason to get a FWD A4 in my opinion.

ferizzo

My friend has an A4 1.8t and it has not given him any problems, he's had it about a year and a half. He does have rattles, which I never notice, but he swears they're there. I have a small rattle in my car as well. He has a chip, exhaust, coilovers and a few other little goodies and the car is definitely quick. I like the interior but I like my TLS' interior as well. I think you can see some places were acura cut corners but I still think the interior is plenty luxurious (so what if the center consol latch is cheap plastic, as long as it works). Now I hope nothing breaks in my TLS but I know its bound to happen someday. And I also know that I would/will complain when and if it does but right now I love the car and I haven't even finished breaking her in!

I really like the a6 2.7t but then you are talking about big bucks and are talking about gs430s and 540s.

thejavagod

That is completely inaccurate information... I priced the A4 3.0 Quattro sedan 6-spd. and with almost all the gizmos (including power rear sunshade, HIDs, leather, warm weather pkg., premium pkg and sport pkg) I got a quote for $35,400.

For this price you get a much better built vehicle overall, and more equipment like P235s on the rear, bi-xenons and quattro, not to mention a much better handling car with much better looks and also image.

DHB

I just went to Audi's site and priced a comparably equipped A4 with the 3.0 engine and front wheel drive. Base MSRP: $31,390 Price as configured: $38,160. Quattro would have been approx $2,000.00 more.

Closer

You can get a manual 1.8t quattro for under $31,000.
Personally, if I were to get this car... this is the setup I would get.
I LOVE the interior of this car. Made up of nice materials and so solid.
Funny thing is... you don't get leather seats till you go 3.0. Strange.

MB-telecom

OK. GO to Edmunds and look up the TMV. The TMV is very accurate. The Audi A4 you optioned out would cost over $37K. Try getting Audi to deal on that price too.

Better quaility? Are you kidding? You must be. Audi's are now OK and were JUNK up until about 4 or 5 years ago. Where have you been living for the past 15 years?

Show me one independent survey where Audi bests Acura in ANY facet of quality (initial, long-term, etc...).

Who cares about the tires to the degree you do? Do you drive on the Autobahn? Do you drive on a closed-circuit track often? I'm getting tired of hearing about all the 'wannabe' Speed Racer's out there in their 'Family Cars' acting they are Bob Bondurant.

The quattro feature is the only legimate argument.

As far as image goes some people DO need it. There is always that fat, balding guy that needs the 'image' the Audi provides every bit as badly as he needs his Viagra...

Closer

thejavagod

TMV can go to hell, I got a <i>real</i> quote for a fully optioned out A4 Quattro 3.0 manual for $35,500 from Keyes Audi, Carsdirect.com offered it for $36,190... check for yourself!

A4 Quattro 3.0 + Premium pkg + Sport Pkg + Heated front/rear seats + Leather + BOSE + Sunroof + Xenons + Power sunshade = $36, 190 !!!

Survey...yeah right, who's survey - J.D. Powers?? The same J.D. Powers who says the Pontiac Aztec is the hottest vehicle? Sure!

Just because you do not enjoy driving a 6 spd. manual or basically are an unskilled driver does not mean that others are the same way. Then why do people spend $$$ on Porsche's and BMWs... sorry! according to your logic they all must be stupid

On the contrary, its the younger crowd that desires the image factor. Just go to Redondo Beach and you will see nothing but BMWs all driven by practically teenagers who will scorn at anything non-German... I'm not endorsing this attitude but its just reality!

DJ Iceman

Yes, but go to Manhattan Beach and you will see Lexuses and Mercedes--few Audis. Maybe it's just me, but I put Audi in the same "image" category as Infiniti, which is to say below Acura. There's nothing wrong with a manufacturer developing an upscale line as long as it is built on a solid product. Let the flaming begin...

Lexus = Toyota = rock solid
Acura = Honda = great cars
Infiniti = Nissan = crap
Audi = VW = total crap

BLEXV6

It all comes down to what you want. I love my TL, and a friend of mine has the A4 (2002), and I would not trade my TL straight up for his vehicle. IMHO, I love Europeon cars, but I find the interiors too bland. I much prefer my TLs interior. My friend however loves his Audi and talks about it all the time. Mind you, he just came from a boat , an Expedition.

Beiruty

I saw a white new 4.2 V-8 A6 at the airport. Vry nice car.

I wished I had enough moeny to buy the next RS6!

ming 2.7T_RENAMED

A4 is a solid car. The 3.0 will take a little to get used to looks wise. The interior is very nice.
Its not meant to be a racer, but a well rounded car that drives well on the street.
Comes with all inclusive warranty, except tires and gas. Everything else is covered including scheduled service, wipers, rotors, pads,,,, I think its for 4yr/50k.
Audi took a big hit awhile back, but has come on strong the last few years. The S4 picked #1 over the E36 M3(C&D), the A6 2.7T #1 over the 528 and others (C&D). Unless you've driven one you cant go off of the past with this car. If you do you are missing out on a nice car.
Audi's typically go for 1200 -2000 over invoice, except the S4 which alot of places wanted MSRP.
The Acura is a great buy. Both cars are fun to drive. Either choice is not a wrong one.
Acura service is probably ahead also. Audi got caught with their pants down because they didnt think the demand would be so high. They outgrew there service capabilites, but they are currently trying beef up the service area.

samkws

who needs those stupid surveys?? go check it out by urself!!!

i found out VW and Audi has better interior setup than honda/Acura...if u don't believe it, go to ur nearest dealer and find out...

but tranny is the issue for VW/Audi..thier tiptronic has the reputation of breaking down at over 60k miles under normal driving... manual pls...

1.8T engine is one superb engine and got the best engine award by Ward's...same as 2.7T...3.0 is silky smooth and quiet...

quattro is one of the best AWD system around...92% of audi are quattro

just to be fair for Audi and other cars...pls do not judge by the magazine's opinions, go to look at the real car and feel it...

both are reallie gd cars...but a4 do have more fun in town

1SICKLEX

Well I gotta like the looks of what I am driving. The New A4 is very blocky, in a good way.
I am not a real fan of the A6 Styling
I do like the A8 styling, very understated but purposeful.

I LOVE the Allroad and TT.

And AUDI has changed the interior game with the ALuminum (Real aluminum, not painted parts). Hell even Lexus has real aluminum in the SC 430 and GS 300 sportdesign.

THe A4 is really a much different vehicle than the TL-S.

I guess ask the dude that owns both in pm (hemants) he could probably save ya a bunch of time.

DHB

I have never owned an Audi but I did take two test drives in an A6 two years ago after we turned our 1997 BMW 528i in from lease. It seemed to be a very fine car and was very refined. The interior was top notch and I personally loved the exterior styling. Compared to the 528i it's handling was a little soft and it seemed to have a little more body roll. It seemed a little quicker than the 528i but just barely. At that time they didn't have the 3.0 engine and I was concerned about how well the turbocharged engine would hold up over the long run in the hot south where I live so I passed.

Now two years later I had a hard time deciding between the 530i, the A6 or A4 with the 3.0, and the TL-S. The 5 series BMW is about to get new sheet metal and some big changes next year. That coupled with a 46,000 pp which still didn't have all of the TL-S features eliminated it for this year. The A6 also suffered from a very high price tag. I had no issues with the A4 whatsoever other than it's much higher pp for the same features as a TL-S w/Navi (I gotta have the Navi) and the fact that it's a bit slower. So far I feel that the exterior styling (bland) and lack of included maintenance are the only significant drawbacks for the TL-S. When I factored in value then the choice was clear for me but everyone has to decide what's important to them and decide for themselves. I think almost anyone could be happy in any of these cars.

kevcarart.com

That's what I plan to do.. I had the TL-S for a wknd, and loved it! I plan to get the Audi for the same if I can convince a dealer.... we'll see.

Thanks! I have a lot of vettes on my site, because I've been on the www.corvetteforum.com forever!

DHB, I appreicate your answer, lots of useful info. good points.

the Audi is very appeakling, but also small.. and the TL always will be on my mind.. so we'll see what happens after I drive the Audi... the dealer here says he has a White Diamond for me, all I have to do is sell my car.