Ice Man

I can't believe that no one has tried to intall a supercharger on an 02 TL-P. With all the power hogs on this site I would have guessed that someone put the Accord V6 SC in their car.

Can anyone tell me if they thought about it and if so why they haven't followed thru?

-Ice

patrick

Not true. I've seen pics of one 99 TL-P with the AV6 S/C installed. Most people haven't followed through because it's either too expensive for them or they are worried about their tranny.

fsttyms1

most of it has to do with the money and worry of the tranny

Inspire

what damages can it cause to the tranny? thanks.

MikePA

The transmission is already known as a weak spot, so jamming more hp and torque through it won't increase it's longevity.

NYZGREATST

not to mention, it would make more sense to get a -s and then S/C it

Ice Man

I gotta admit thats a funny thing to say. It would make more sense to get an S? Are they doing trade ins or something that I missed?

I someone has a P they aren't going to get an s, and I am sure that getting an s is more than $4500.

I personally have a TL-P. When I bought my car a few months ago I had no idea about modding or anything along those lines. In addition I was able to get my 02 for 11.5Gs. Now that I've been reading the forums I want it to go faster point blank. Why do people try to make their S's go faster. Why not just buy a faster car right?

Ice Man

I assume it will only hurt the tranny if it is constantly driven hard correct?

black_tl

Well like someone said before, the tanny is know for being weak so any thing to put more stress on it will just cause it to go out faster.

Ice Man

I see you are in Houston. I'm in Austin. You have anything done to your TL?

black_tl

Yeah some stuff, AEM CAI, megan header, custom cat-back w/magnaflow mufflers, h&r sport springs, chrome tl-s wheels.

car_lost

the tranny is hit or miss. you can baby your car all you want, but it can still happen. it's happened tons of times to stock cars driven by older people who dont mod or even know much about it. it doesnt have to do with how much power and what not.

Ice Man

Thats how I am looking at the whole thing. Hit or miss. What have been the symptoms of people tranny's before they blow. I know mine pulls hard between second and third but only if I accel hard else I don't feel it.

car_lost

erratic shifting. it's easy to tell.

about the S/C... its very possible to retrofit it. im surprised more people havent done it. i've seen one and it was pretty awesome. its pretty much plug and play. im sure whatever has to be customized is very simple.

Ice Man

Yeah, thats what my understanding is. The biggest issue would be space I would think. The config of the space under the hood is what cause some issues with headers and what not made for the AV6. Other than that everything should match up.

03SSMTL-S

ive said it before the TL is a nice luxury car thats quick for the price, but if you want balls to the wall fast/drag racing/SCCA car you made the wrong choice

Ice Man

Ok you missed my point. Why would you tell someone who has P to get an S? If they wanted a different car then why not get a faster car period. Personally I don't like the S's interior. The point is to make what you have better. I don't know how else to spell that out. That should be a fairly easy concept to grasp.

That also leads to my comment about why people try to make their S faster. I mean if some one wanted a diff car then they would get one. Everyone who talks about performance mods want more out of what they have. If they wanted advice on a diff car they would state that question and ask "should I get a different car?"

My point is I don't have an S, I don't want an S, I want to know about a Supercharger on a P. Point Blank

Thanks

03SSMTL-S

*

Ice Man

Did you read my original post? When I bought my car I wanted the TL, I didn't care about beating anyone and I got it a great price. I don't have a S and I am not going to sell my car to buy one. I can't change the past dude, yet you keep hawking on this point which is not doing either of us any good. I mean if you have a time machine I can borrow, I'll go back in time and tell my past self to pick up a S instead. That I way I won't have to sit here and read as you keep reiterating moot points. Or better yet I'll go even further back and tell my parents to get some microsoft stock during its start up and that way I can buy an F'in M5 like I really want. I promise I'll give you the time machine back as soon as I return!

03SSMTL-S

whatever its your money, dump shitloads it to a s/c and installation, so you can match a tl-s in hp,then dump more into your aftermarket suspension, i don't care what you do, and as far as that time machine im using now to go back and attempt to make acura put a 6 sp man. tranny in the type-s, so your going to have to wait.

MikePA

In terms of cost/hp, a SC is an expensive way to add horsepower.

According to the CompTech website dyno graphs (click here) , a SC (along with headers and exhaust) adds 45 hp. At $4,495 just for the SC (no installation, no headers and no exhaust) that's about $100/hp.

A Type S adds 35 hp (225 vs 260 - I think an S is 260 hp).

In my area, the price difference between a 2002 TLP and a 2002 TLS is $1,250, or $36/hp.

car_lost

the supercharger is more like $3500 and you can find a used one for about $2500.

MikePA

Add in the labor to install it and SC cost/hp is still double the cost of the hp gain you get with a Type S compared to a TLP.

car_lost

oh, and the tl-p has a lower compression ratio

MikePA

This can be a good thing with forced induction.

03SSMTL-S

This is my point exactly its a cheaper way to gain hp and if its not enough s/c the tl-s, go from 260 hp to 305 hp, instead of 225 hp to 270 hp, not to mention the other upgrades on the tl-s.

Ice Man

Dually noted.

Ice Man

So you are saying that a cheaper way to gain horsepower is to convert my car into a S? I didn't know their were type s conversions.

Please explain this to me because you seem to know something I don't. If someone already has a TL-P what is the use of telling them they should have an S. Are you purposing that they sell their car? Other than that I'm lost at what point you are trying to get across. I know the S is better but I have a P. So can you please stop bringing up what the S can do, please. I am trying to ask nicely here. Thanks

03SSMTL-S

There is no conversion (worth investing time and money into), why not sell your tl-p (is there a reason you wont or cant sell?) and get an tl-s, your thinking of spending a lot extra on the s/c why not put that towards a type-s and get a better platform to start building from, and as MikePA has shown you would get more hp per dollar by doing this, not mention the other upgrades that come on the type-s. Even with the s/c on your tl-p you only get 10 hp more than a type-s (that with the addition of h/e, and assuming you can s/c a tl-p). the main point is why dump a lot into upgrading hp in a tl-p, when a little more into buying a tl-s and get the same result and a better platform to upgrade if you choose to do so.

kaih

The baseline hp figures in their graph includes the headers. So headers and supercharger are more like a 65 horsepower gain, on a type S. The gains for headers on a premium are less. Still and expensive route for horsepower.

Comptech lists the gains of the supercharger of 40 to 60 wheel hp. Another site claims 42 to 48 wheel hp. The Type S delivers 35 more crank horsepower. To put it into more even terms. The Supercharger adds somewhere between 52 to 78 crank horsepower to a type S gain over type P gain of 35 crank horsepower. The Type S Wheel horsepower gain is around 27 horsepowe versus a type P to a superchargers 40 to 60 wheel gain.

A question I have is where is the gain. I remember seeing in a CL brochure that had a graph of horsepower of the base engine and the type s. The horsepower plot for both engines was the same up to a certain point. When the type P stopped breathing the type S kept climbing to it's 260hp mark. The point where the type S kept going was quite high in the RPM band, the exact numbers I do not remember. A supercharger adds horsepower throughout the RPM band. In the comptech graph there is a 20 horsepower gain at 3800 rpm and goes all the way to 45 horsepower gain at 6800rpm. Having extra horespower only at 6000rpm and above is much harder to notice. You'll do much better with 20 horsepower boost across the entire rpm band versus 40 at peak rpm.

Having said that you'd still be better off with a type S then superchargering that.

NYZGREATST

Ice Man

Ok, thanks for clearing up your point. So yes, I have already put like 3G's into my car to make it feel like mine. Including sound system upgrades and installations, light conversions (interior and exterior), paint job and some other things. Now this is on top of things that can be removed like headers and TB. I did a lot of this before I even though about performance mods. Now granted I could take an L and start over but to me I love my car, not the TL as a vehicle, but my car. I don't feel like throwing 3Gs away. I can live with out a supercharger if it comes down to it and it can not be done, but I want MY car.

Along side that I am not a racer, I am a driver and not many people can out drive me point blank. So I appreciate your suggestion on another car but trust me if I get another car it will be the M5 and not another TL. So if you feel like your answer to my oringinal question is "you can't put a SC on a TL-P" then thank you, your comment is noted and leave it at that.

Ice Man

BTW the supercharger will give more gains to a TL-P than a TL-S

03SSMTL-S

BTW a TL-S with a s/c will have more hp than a TL-p with a s/c had to say it!

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Thank you

Ice Man

yes you are correct.

jay.k

My '99 TL-P, albeit only a 4 speed, has been "paid for" for 4 years. It is not plagued with the 2nd gear tranny problem that the 5-speeds have. My tranny may go, but it isn't as likely as on the 2000 models and later.

Also, I love being able to downshift to first whenever I want to corner. Can't do that in the 5-speed unless you gate-shift.

IMHO, the '99 model looks better than the '02 and later models - I like the front end and back end better.

I'd be interested in adding a S/C to this car one day. I'm NOT interested in getting an -S model. If I was getting another TL, it'd be an '05 model or later.

From what I've read in the past, the Accord AV6 S/C from Comptech goes into the -P model TLs with minor modifications. The dealer would be able to make the modifications, and would have Comptech for support if they have any questions.

If I remember correctly, Bigman on this forum has an S/C in his TL and he says it drives much better than before - not much need to downshift when he wants to "hit it" to pass, etc.

I say go for it! :-)

Cheers!

Jay

car_lost

no he doesnt and he never did. he sold the car over a year ago.

there is no one on the board that has a tl-p with S/C, although there are a few out on the road.

fsttyms1

theroretically the TL-P could make more with the SC due to its lower compression there by allowing alot more boost!

kaih

These numbers may be wrong but I think for each pound of boost you increase horsepower by 7%.

The Premium has 9.8:1 compression?, and the S 10.5:1? You probably couldn't run more than 1 pound of addtional boost maybe two.

Type S 260 Hp 4 lbs boost = 332crank Hp 259 wheels
Premium 225 5 lbs boost = 303 crank hp 236 wheels

Type S 4 lbs boost = 332 crank Hp 259 wheels
Premium 225 6lbs boost = 319 crank hp 248 wheels.

It's close.

Add an intercooler and you could probably run 2 more pounds though. But you could do that for either.