glen421

Just joined the forum and looks like a great one and look forward to reading all the posts.

It looks like this issue has been covered a lot on this forum. I have an 03 Acura TL w/ 112,650 miles and just a couple of days ago the transmission started to slip going from 2nd to 3rd gear. I called Acura (the one I always go to) and got a quote of $3,950 out the door for a reman. tranny. My fear is sinking that much into a car that only worth about $7,000 according to KBB. So I have taken it to a local shop about 3mi from my house and they have done a tranny flush but that didn't fix it either. So I am going to my Acura dealer on Monday.

I have done some research and see that there was a class action lawsuit against Honda/Acura for the 99-03 TLs tranny issue in 06. The problem is my VIN doesn't fall into this lawsuit. Does anybody know if there was another lawsuit that covers all 03 TL's or if Acura has a kind heart and maybe help out on the cost of repar?

01tl4tl

when you say FLUSHED
what exactly did the shop do? use a powered machine to force fluid out or push it in?
Did they use DEX3 fluid which ruined your trans,,,,
or did they use the proper HONDA ZR atf?

once its slipping its done for- all new fluid does is wash away the remaining friction from the clutch disc/packs

the VIN cutoff was a legal issue not a `fixed` on date- acura has GOODWILL it can show and help you out with
Please use the search function for 2nd gen thread title: Tranny Failure
its about 20 pages long- read the last 3-4 pages-- paying attention to my post- as a former industry insider I have helped several people get coverage after the service writer said 4 grand
You are past miles slightly but also may be part of the odometer error group that gives you till 114.5

Certainly worth a trip to the dealer and MEET the service MANAGER in person, tell them your situation and ask for Goodwill assistant on the bill
MANAGER is the key word there

They speak to their acura regional warranty rep about your case and decide what corp will offer you-usually 50- 75- or 90 percent coverage
thats a big help~~

Go read and good luck!

01tl4tl

Being a known customer at the dealer helps a lot- you are a loyal customer who comes in for more than a freebie..now you need their help
Its an everyday occurance for trans failure and goodwill coverage

If you had the trans fluid changed in the past- especially at the dealer, thats bonus to you
receipts are key- of dealer changed fluid thats really good for you

Make sure it had the RECALL to install the external oil jet kit- seen on top of trans.
If not you could still score~

Also for an 03, have the VIN run thru acura 1-800-382-2238x5 ask if the recall for trans oil ket was done, and are you a part of the timing belt pulley recall,, and the odometer court case

glen421

Thanks for your help 01tl4tl. All I know at this time is that the local shop did a "pressurized flush" not sure if it was a push or pull method. I do know that the local shop did use the Honda ZR. So, don't use DEXIII even though it is acceptable in the owners manual?

About the recall I am pretty sure they did the oil jet kit. I have called Acura but they can't tell me exactly what they did. I am a second owner (purchased early 05) but it is ceritified pre-owned Acura. I will look into the timing belt pulley and odometer court case.

Once again thanks for your help on this issue. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

01tl4tl

are you certain that shop uses ZR fluid? thats odd to find unless they are a honda specialty shop and use lots of it

Most machines are not allowed or good for the TL, (acura has a new method for car on lift but similar to old manual method and designed for newer cars)

maybe some new technology I am not aware of
but the simple drain and refill, drive 5 minutes to move old fluid forward, drain and refill..
its called 3x3 in the book and here,, 3 qts 3 times gets most of the 7.3 qts changed

Dex3 is strictlty forbidden by the manual-!!!!!
if you read closely it says if you ever add dex3 in an emergency top off, you must do the 3x3, with 12 qts total for a full and complete flush
Its that bad for our trans

CPO should have taken care of the recalls- thats part of the inspection but I never trust anything to have happened.

acura 1-800-382-2238 x5 is staffed by phone answering people- not techs
you have to interpret what the info is--

Better go talk with the service Manager as I suggested before
With it being CPO, and a late 03- you have a good case for 100% goodwill
You have to ask for what you want,,but --sometimes a good service manager will take care of the authorization for full coverage without your involvement, 20 minutes of waiting and they hand over loaner car keys saying- call you in a week Sir!

Best of Luck- imagine a positive outcome with no hassles

glen421

History-- The slipping was noticed on Wednesday on the way home for lunch and it did it twice. Then I parked the car and checked the tranny fluid and noticed it was a little low and a brown color. I went to the auto parts store and all they had was DEXIII. I put in about half a quart and drove the car around about 1 mile up the street and it seemed to work fine. Then after about 5 minutes of driving I noticed it again and defined it as when going from 2nd gear to 3rd gear. So parked the car and Thursday called around on Tranny prices didn't move car all day. Friday I called a local shop about 3mi from my home and asked if they are familiar with Acura TL 03 and they said yes. So on my lunch break I drove home to pick up the car ( I have a work vehcile) and drove it down to the local shop. It never slipped on the way there and I hit several stop lights.

When I arrived I specifically asked them to check the tranny and they said no problem. They did ask if there was anything wrong with it and I said "no I am selling the car and would like the tranny looked at" they replied how long has it been since it has been serviced and I said "Acura looked at it at about 70,000mi (Acura checked the fluid) and Honda recommends fluid change at 120,000mi. They said we can do a pressure flush and I said "please do".

About an hour later I get a call and they said my tranny fluid looked horrible but that isn't my problem. They tell me that my motor mounts are completely shot and my engine is being supported by the tranny and front axle which is causing great stress on the tranny. They give a price to replace (of course we go back and forth) and I approve the work.

I pick the car up and the service tech says "man that is a clean car and shifts great I drove it myself." My girlfriend drives the car home while I follow. When we get home she says it shifted fine but I hear a noise. I said start it up and I could hear a slight buzzing or whinning sound in park. Then when you put in in D you could diffently hear it (changed pitch). I drove the car around the block a couple of times and it did shift fine but I couldn't figure where the buzzing sound was coming from. (I then rememebered that when I was calling around for tranny prices one shop suggested a tanny flush but did say that sometimes that this may increase you problems.) So I parked the car. Saturday called the local shop and told them the problem and they said bring it in.

I brought it in and they said something must be loose on the car. So 2hrs later they come out and "said we checked everything and noticed a dry rotted vacum hose we are replacing it now but we are leaning twards you might have a bad tanny pump it seems to have trouble after warm up." They replaced the hose and drove the car up the street. They then come to me and say we are going to Honda to pick up Honda tranny fluid about 16 quarts to do a complete flush on the house but we will need your car till Monday morning we're closed at 4pm and are closed all day on Sunday. I figured that was fair and went home. I figured either way Monday I'll pick up the car and go to Acura.

I metioned in the reply post I called Acura and they told me the tranny issue was closed and that my vehcile was not covered. Well when I called one of the local Acura shops one I used to go to when I worked on that side of town. They mentioned to me that there is a tranny issue but I must be over 114,000 by now and I said no I wasn't and he replied you might be able to get Acura to cover some of it. I then called Acura again and they said your vehicle was part of a recall for the tranny (I suppose this is the oil jet kit) and that's it Acura won't cover any costs. So, I went back to the good ole internet and started my research on the Acura TL tranny and started seeing all the class action lawsuit stuff. Then found out that my VIN wasn't in the lawsuit but have seen that some people got the "goodwill" treatment. So that is about it in a nutshell.
Also I couldn't find the thread you mentioned "Tranny Failure" been searching all night. Do you remember what year that was?

russianDude

what does that mean? Had I been getting every recommended service package at the dealer, it would set me up far more than a new tranny cost.... At the end I still paid only 1/3 of the cost

01tl4tl

when you have some sort of past history with the dealer- even an oil change or 2 in the life of the car,,not every service,,just them having seen it at some point--
that is considered being a loyal customer

Mentioning you own 2 acuras and sent 3 friends to buy one is good too

Yes you can get goodwill without any of that, AND you can also get passed over for that same goodwill as many have reported

01tl4tl

glen- some years have a vac boosted front and rear motor mount- a bad mount will make the car run funny from a vac leak. The hose itself could be rotted too.

The front and passenger side mounts are common failure item, often found at trans replacement time- the front mount is 20 minutes to replace when the trans is already removed for replacement
The rear mount can fail too, usually after the others were bad for a while
All are critical to holding things in line- stress/load transfer with them broken is very high

From the story- first the forbidden dex3 was added-
The fluid level was not checked properly to know if it REALLY was low, but it did alert to brown burnt worn out fluid--iirc the book does call for a change before 120
Read book for method- must drive 15 miles on freeway cruise speed- then get off freeway- stop in safe level area and turn OFF engine.
Check fluid level
If driven in town it will false read from heat

Next a supposed acura knowledgable shop uses the wrong fluid, and against acura directions uses a power flush machine- which would wash away any remaining grip the clutches had,,that crud was holding enough friction to enable action

Sure it will shift like butter for a little while- then,,,,dont ask

You called the 800 number and were told out of vin- not covered-
I have said before to ignore those minimum wage phone answering people--they may take orders for vacuum cleaners too for all we know!~!
they can read from a book of NO!- you can negotiate with a real person

russianDude

yeah, I agree. I am just against servicing car exclusively at the dealer. for one thing I can do a lot of things myself, including oil change. And all the service packages they sell is a rip off, you better of picking and choosing services that you actually need. So when I hear people saying that they only go to the dealer and then get something for free later on, well, its not technically for free.... and other thing, its not guaranteed, you only only improving your chances of getting something for free.

01tl4tl

by no means do I suggest the dealer do any service work that you can do yourself.

Im only saying it helps to get to know people before you need them.
35 bucks once for an oil service puts you in the computer,,thats better than someone who isnt there. Meet the service MANAGER while you are at the shop- chat- be nice etc

I believe (as a former industry insider) that a $5 expression of goodwill on your part- a box of ice cream cones or donuts for the shop- when you need something small ,or a test ride with the Head Tech to check a noise or vibration- and no invoice written-no charge is made,,,thats goodwill coming back to you

glen421

@ 01tl4tl--Do you think having the local shop do "pressurized flush" will alert Acura? Should I even tell them? If I don't will they notice?

russianDude

I think the reason they helped me out is because I had transmission fluid changed only at the dealer, I could do it myself, but I knew transmission is a weak spot and wanted to have all records at the dealer. Also I own two Acuras bought at the same dealer, I think you right, it makes a bit difference when you own another Acura.

russianDude

I would not tell them that. Flushes are not recommended by Honda, so they will immediately blame it on you and deny you any coverage.

glen421

Update: Took the car in this morning and Acura test drove it and told me that the tranny need to be replaced. He told me my car is not apart of the extended warranty but he would see what they could do. About 30min later he said we can do 50/50 and said I needed to get to work and I would need to think about it.

I called him back about an hr. later and I told him " I appreciate the offer and am glad to hear Acura is willing to help out but I feel that even though my car is outside the VIN's for the extended warranty that Acura should pay more because this is a complete 2nd gen issue. He said that 50/50 is a good offer. I then tried what if I "pay for the labor". He said that Acura corp doesnt' allow that and it just needs to be treated as a warranty and split based on %. Then I went in with that the timing belt needs to be replaced and if we could work out a deal on the tranny I would authorize the timing belt work. He said can't do it either it doesn't work that way anymore.

He claims that it is going to be tougher and tougher to get any "goodwill" on this issue and Acura is currently strictly enforcing the VIN extended warranty. He said that 50/50 is a good deal and that if I negotiate any further that Acura may resend the offer completely. I said I would need to think about. I ended the conversation with "you know it's ridiculous that I have to replace the transmission before I even get a chance to get to the 1st Transmission Fluid change at 120,000mi. I called back about 35min later and said I would like to see a 75/25 deal. He said he was just a middle man and he would take my request up stream. I'll keep the post updated as I negotiate.

glen421

Update: Well, Acura didn't resend the offer but they didn't budge either. 50/50 is what they are willing to do. I have taken the car home and will be calling Acura customer service (I know this isn't going to do anything.)

illmat1k

iTrader: (1)

I got 65/35. i paid close to $1300 on a $3500 quote. 3/36 warranty came with it. I called AcuraCare and they contacted the dealer. I would go that route because AcuraCare is allowed to authorize the deals and thats who the dealers call anyways. If you get lucky and get a good rep at AcuraCare, they'll surely help you out. Especially in this economy, they are losing money anyhow. I dont think they would mind too much knowing that its a known issue.

glen421

I even called and spoke with the head of the Service Dept. and he said his hands were tied on the issue. He can only do what Acura authorizes him to do. He told me to calll AucraCare and explain the situation but he also told me to tell them I was offered 50/50. My quote from this dealer is $3,950 total but they would take some off of it and bring my portion down to around $1,700.

01tl4tl

I must not have been clear these last two years of posting:

Service Manager is who calls acura corp warranty rep for you
SM cannot authorize anything big like this without them
A small `questionable warranty` repair, the dealer may eat the cost of to keep you happy, but for trans
they need acura because acura corp is the place paying their labor and providing the part!

If you never had the fluid changed (its before 120, check your book again) its harder to get goodwill--acura has little incentive since you dont seem to have done maitenance

At a certain point- their goodwill doesnt come back to them- a 10 year old car, even if made in 03 its still over 10 years since they designed them,,people buying new cars are not concerned with 10 years ago problem- their new car should be fine ---right?!?
In this case- anything under 2 grand is a good deal IMO

01tl4tl

now the choice is: do you want to put $3500 into the car- closer to 4gs by the time you get caught up on all the maitenance,, like all the fluids...

2 for the trans and 1500 for the 105 if done right...$$$$$

Is the cars overall conditrion great? then its worth it to keep

Anyone know? Do we qualify as clunkers under the govt program?

glen421

My car has only been to Acura dealers (except for last friday) and there has never been a mention and/or recommendation by any of them to change the transmission fluid.

By the way the car is in excellent condition. The car is a pearl white and interior is tan.

01tl4tl

then fix it- they are going halves with you on the trans, better than a kick to the head!
Wont find a better nicer car for a reasonable price these days

Do what you can of the 105 yorself- the plugs being the major ripoff at shop labor rates ans parts pricing

01tl4tl

service writers dont know squat about cars- just sell packages of stuff when they can, and rely on techs to say if fluids or other repairs are needed

they may not suggest a trans service at one shop, while the next says all cars over 50 should have it done--which is reasonable IMO

01tl4tl

was this the car that needed the boroscope inspection still--where I suggested you find out if they ever did the inspection or pronounced the trans dead after test drive without even looking inside-
If thats inspection is bad, you still qualify for the free trans- thats critical to learn right now-

gold2003tl (90)

reading through this thread i am a little concerned, i have about a 100 - 200 rpm slip coming out of 2nd gear into 3rd gear. its not a bad slip but if i use SS i dont have any slipping at all with my shifting method.

when i use SS, i take my foot off the gas during the up shifts like you would with a real manual. and on down shifts ( never harsh ) i try to match the engine speed to what it will be in the lower gear by giving it a little gas. basically i am using SS to be more gentle than it would be in D5 to try to extend the life of my tranny. its smoother and i believe i am putting less wear and strain on the clutch packs.
what do you think 01tl4tl?

01tl4tl

glen: the shop that did the pressure fluid change WITH the WRONG FLUID--
they owe you at least half the trans replacement cost

Yes, they did try to fix their mistake by redoing it with honda fluid, which
means there had been an error
But- the damage was done-
between a machine power washing the friction off the clutch disc and incorrect fluid useage being a major issue...
In small claims court- you would win the entire cost the dealer is charging for the replacement trans
At least half from them is reasonable- the shop has an obligation to do jobs right-Knowing fluid and procedures allowed in the ever more complex transmissions--newer year/model cars are even more trick than ours!
Shops carry idiot insurance for mistakes like this

Go take care of that

01tl4tl

gold-
are you covered vin-usa car? in mileage?

you are fooling yourself- put it in D5 and drive it
If you are manually downshifting its harsher than what the computer would do, and a major cause of wear
At what rpm do you get slip?
any shudder feeling as it shifts?

Drive with gentle to moderate foot pressure to pedal- it will shift at 2500

you screw with the brains with lifting at shift- thats not helping it stay hooked up.
Its not a manual trans... and the clutch works opposite of a manual trans--its more like a wet clutch on a motorcycle (multiple friction plates always in oil, while MT cars have dry clutch, 1 friction plate/disc)

cantubury

EVERYthing in all the posts is 100% accurate. i had transmission replaced at 79,000; acura paid for it; it was the coolant line and the transmission overheated. it failed again in 10,000 miles and again acura paid with no debate; not even a sales tax. they had given a 7 year warranty for free. Now, the car improved mileage from 22 on a trip to 27.5 and from 20 around town to about 22.5 with the new transmission. We had to replace the motor mounts and the inner cv drive axle unit. than was not covered--at this time at 111,000 miles. The Acura dealers are in a position where Mercedes was years ago, its the best car and if something happens, they will pay due to goodwill, which is unheard of today in business. I really think that with timing belts and the like, the car should be traded at about 100,000 although it will run to 275,000, i think. The Gettel dealership in Sarasota has been honest and tried to save money. The 2002 TL is still a joy to drive and travel in. I would buy a 2009 or 10 at this time.

gold2003tl (90)

i should be covered by the vin number and i have 80,000 miles. it barely slips at around 2800 rpm coming out of 2nd into 3rd, and yes there is shuddering. if i give it more gas the shuddering stops, and at higer rpms its harder to tell if it slips (3500 -4000 rpms) and it does not shudder at higher rpms.

i am wondering if i should bring it into the dealer, i have complained before to them so they have a record about the shuddering. the thing is the car has been driving fine for the past 6 months, and i let it sit for about a month. after letting it sit for a month the shuddering and 200 rpm slip has returned. i think the fluid may have settled.

so it worth complaining to acura for this little problem, again, they sent me home last time for exactly the same problem and told me its FINE. idk what to do, nothing?

01tl4tl

be certain you are covered vin, and this time ask to take the Head Tech on a test drive so you can demonstrate the shudder
Techs wear thick boots and dont feel the same thing you do

getting it on record now will help you if it fails after warranty period

once you drive a few miles the fluid has all mixed again- thats not the issue

Bob_F

Personally, I would go ahead and take the 50/50 offer. You probably won't be able to do much better than that at this point. It seems as if the 50/50 coverage offers are a lot more common lately.