The Transmission story mentioned by another member in a different thread is now posted on LA Times web site.. Check it out:

http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...tos%2Dhighway1

Check it out. Our TL-S is mentioned.

 

"
The five-speed models typically were damaged by premature wear of the third-gear clutch pack. As the clutch friction material abraded, it scattered bits inside the transmission case, clogging fluid lines and causing erratic shifting.


Of 1 million vehicles sold in the U.S. with those transmissions, Spencer said, Honda has replaced the transmissions in about 16,000, or 1.6%.

Spencer said the number and severity of transmission problems, though exceeding Honda's tolerance, are not enough to warrant a recall.

Nor has Honda issued a service bulletin to alert dealers to the potential for trouble, he said.
"

1.6% only, I bet thats bullsh1t. every Acura dealer has transmissions on backorder. my trannys has been hitting odd notes for the past 2 weeks anyway. when i get mine replaced i better get some kind of extended warranty. This is a joke. Every car maker has car problems but shifting to 2nd gear on the highway... damn, thats crazy.

 

Hmmmm .... so its finally out in the press. For those of you who lost your transmissions ..... and haven't done so yet, complain to NHTSA with details on your VIN#/dealer/date of faliure/symptoms.

 

Thanks for the link.

So, for the scoffers in the audience, Honda has at long last come clean, after the Los Angeles Times stuck a microphone up their posterior.

It's 1.6% of all MDX, CL,TL, TL-S, CL-S, Odyssey and Accord for the two different problems. Anecdotally, it seems like the TL-S shows a higher blowout rate. I forget what oblio98 had come up with in his poll, I want to say 2.5% based on reported VIN ranges.

Honda is blowing smoke on the failure rate not being high enough to warrant a recall. The repair is too expensive to do a recall. They are really living on the edge now, though. They have acknowledged, in a story in the LA Times, that there is a problem that caused at least a few people to suffer a catastrophic downshift at highway speeds. It's just a matter of time before someone is killed. This gets really expensive to settle out of court when you admit you knew about a problem and did nothing. Ford is still paying out on all the Explorer blowouts that killed people. I think it's around 45 fatalities attributed to the issue before Ford's recall, so that's roughly the level of hot death needed before you'll see NHTSA take an interest.

I also think they are blowing smoke on the lack of a service bulletin. I don't believe that this problem, which as described involves gradual deterioration, is invisible. Some reports of the problem indicate that the fluid was abnormal. Honda could mandate additional transmission flushes or at least inspection of the fluid/filter at a shorter interval to find trannies that are close to failing.

And we *still* don't have an exact explanation of what causes the premature clutch pack failures, is it a mechanical design flaw, a PCM programming problem (unlikely), or a manufacturing problem. This is important, because if it were a manufacturing flaw, some VIN ranges would have the chance to fail, while others would have more or less 0%. If it's a design flaw, than all vehicles with these transmissions have some unknown % chance to fail that may or may not be worse in certain climates or in certain driving conditions. I would say based on the information, that it's probably the latter, and that since it's a clutch pack, city-type driving would probably be harder on it than mostly highway miles.

I dunno. I feel like Honda kind of jumped the shark with this boner; to do right by their customers, they should figure out some kind of inspection plan, and perhaps extend the warranty specifically for the tranny issue on affected models out to 100k or something.

 

this is most disturbing... it makes me question the quality of acura models

 

well...i just got my 2003 tls and this is kinda frieken me out. Is there a big possibility that my transmission will fail too? This doesn't seem like honda/acura because ive had my acura legend for 9 years with no problems at all...its perfect. Hopefully my car will be ok and all of your cars

 

Well, that article is the first time Honda has stepped up to the plate and admitted the problem is for real. This is a concern however this gives you extra room to warranty the transmission past the warranty period. I am one who had a 1998 Accord V6 tranny go on me, mind you it was @ 100,000 miles. I was livid and Honda ended up paying for most of the rebuilt tranny. So it is likely BS, that it only affects 2000 and newer models. They must have the same 4 speed trannys for the 98 to 2002 models. Funny thing,. my 1992 Accord never had a tranny problem in the 200,000 miles I drove it. If my 2002 TL tranny goes, I will be moving to Toyota. And this from a person who has owned 7 Hondas. Are you listening Honda. You are about to screw all you past good reliability ratings. I once heard its harder to get new customers than to keep your existing customers.

 

scary. I hope they are telling the truth and the engineers actually found the problem and fixed it.

 

wow, the symptoms are that bad and possibly deadly?!?!? i usually plan on keeping my cars for a very long time, but this has got me thinking. should i chuck the car when it gets to this point or do i continue to drive but with an extended warranty? another reason why this is so important is because i continue to modify my ride but so far after 18 months and 30K miles, nothing wrong yet...

i think we have a VIP in the house...hmmn, will the real josh please stand up!!!

 

I'm willing to bet 110% that Honda / Acura is reading this thread. My suggesting is for all of you to really voice your opinions and believe me you will be heard here.

Slyborg: Excellent recomendations. Hope they listen.

 

Thanks for the LA Times link. I'm saving a copy on my hard drive just in case I ever have to take my 03 TL-S in for tranny replacement. When I mentioned the tranny problem to my sales rep (after I had purchased the car) he said he'd never heard of the problem. Any one in Wisconsin have Tranny problems?

 

I have the real copy of the LA times in my hands. Just in case the dealer tries to BS me if my tranny fails, I'll slap the newspaper article in their face.

Just wait until the first fatality shows up because of this, you bet your a$$ that Acura will pay for the rest of its life for their ignorance and recall the car faster than you can say "acura's car sales are going to fall as fast as enron's stock."

 

BLEXV6,
When i was with Honda(technician) I had replaced several trans on these cars98-99. I never had a complaint about slipping just a large bang when the car is stopped and shifted into reverse. What i didnt see in that article was the mention of the prelude. I had one hell of a time with one. If i recall correctly it was a 99. The trans was slipping with 10k on it. I replaced the trans with a reman. When i was done installing the new trans I couldnt even get the car off the lift, I had to pull it back out, and had another one sent over.... I had the same problem. Which made me think maybe i pinched a harness on R&R. Several hours of pin testing. I had another one shipped. Finally after the3rd trans that i installed worked...I spoke to someone( forget who) but they investigated the replacements... who ever rebuilt them was putting the valve body on backwards.... DOH!!!
Warranty time R&R sucks....!!!!
coupe

 

Yes, thanks for the link! This is some serious ammo for those of us who have trouble in the future and have dealers try to downplay the problem or WONT provide loaner cars.

If the clutch pack is disenigrating, would the debris show up in a tranny fluid drain through a coffee filter? That's what I plan to do... Drain my tranny fluid into a NEW CLEAN pan and then pour it into my recycle container through a coffee filter to look for contamination... Does that sound like a good idea to determine the condition of our trannys??? If so, the least Honda could do, would be to issue a recall inspection for us to take our 5 speed cars in and have the fluid inspected. If it's completely clean, than one could assume that the clutch pack isn't wearing significantly. If it's full of crud... well then they should replace the tranny before someone gets hurt, NOT just perform a flush as they have done with problem trannys in the past. A flush would only delay the inevitable. If the clutch is wearing excessively from the beginning, then it's just going to continue doing so after the flush... A fluid analysis wouldn't cost them as much as law suits will when the accidents start occuring... There will be hell to pay if my car downshifts to second while passing someone doing 80mph! If someone has to die before Honda will correct this... this is MY LAST HONDA PRODUCT! I knew I should have gone with my first instincts and purchased a Toyota/Lexus! Unless they do right by this issue, this will be my last Honda product... Right now, I can't trust Honda and I have no confidence in their product and especially their product support.

WAKE UP HONDA/ACURA AND DO THE RIGHT THING!

 

I know my next car will most likely not be an Acura. MAtter of fact, the only reason I came back to another TLS after I crashed my first one was the NAV.

 

I had a nice long talk with Acura Client Services this morning. We had been playing phone tag since my tranny death, which is kind of good I suppose because I am a little more calm about it now, hehe

I brought up a few of my major concerns with him

1) Towing incident
2) LA Times story
3) Tranny defect
4) Longevity of the vehicle and warrantee

For those who don't know the history about my tranny & towing problem check this thread:
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=45705

1) I was told my case was under investigation with Client Services to dig into what really happened, a follow up call once it has been resolved is expected. I was told this should not have happened to me, and as an example he quoted many other cars on the road with much less ground clearance, including the NSX which can be towed perfectly fine. They have an individual who works with complaints with roadside assistance (cross county motor club) to resolve them.

2) This was kind of fun. I asked if he had seen or heard of the LA Times story. He said he had heard but not seen it. I was like, "Well, that's my mug shot in the article!" He kind of chuckled in amazement. He found it amazing that an LA paper found me, in Boston, to interview. I went over with him the many quotes that Mike Spencer had noted about regarding the problem and 'fix'.

3) It came down to this. The line about "keeping an eye on this" I was told could/should be read into as the cause of the problem(s) have not yet been nailed down. He said that there are two known problems with our tranny, the 3rd gear clutch pack, and the torque converter. He told me that my case sounded most likely to be the torque converter (the drop of gears from 5th to 2nd).

We talked about the different viewpoints both consumer and manufacturer ways about how a recall is viewed. He said that at this time there are no intentions of a recall, but tomorrow, next week, 6 months down the road that may change. The process of returning tranny's to a plant in Ohio he said does not give them direct feedback as to particular trannys in particular cars (i.e., I will never know for sure what exactly happened to mine). This was kind of irritating, I couldn't believe it. I told him that I find it hard to believe that the tranny part numbers that were affected could not be communicated and gathered by Acura to determine the affected units and get them replaced (recalled). This is the part of the conversation where it came out that although they have identified some problems, most notably the clutch packs and the torque converter, that not all the tranny failures have shown the same failure across the board. They have re-engineering the affected parts (3rd gear clutch pack and torque converter) to prevent the metal shavings from contaminating the tranny fluid.

BUT, a humungous BUT, the cause of the problem has yet to be determined!!! At least he said that he, and his department have not been made aware of the cause if it has indeed been discovered.

This was very unsettling, the fact that they do say they are confident they have resolved the issue, but they still don't know what is causing the issue. Seems like just a patch job, to just buff up the parts so they don't fail, rather than fixing the root of the problem.

4) I told him that when the warrantee runs out I most likely will not keep this car or get another Acura, that I do not feel it should be a worry of either me or any other owner to have to face a tranny failure outside of warrantee period and have to pick up the cost of repairs. I was very pleased that he stepped up to the plate and said that he will not only refund me the entire cost of my previously purchased extended warrantee, but also put in writing that if I have problems with the tranny outside of warrantee that it will be covered.

Whew... sorry about the long post

-copland007

 

WOW! This keeps getting MORE and MORE interesting. Thanks for sharing! I emailed my story to the author...I hope he gets even more and more responses...

 

I told you guys it was not oil overheating. Overheated oil will cause varnishing of the valves, and eventual failure from internal pressure getting crazy. Or, it would cause wear of all the clutch packs, some more than others. This specific problem with one clutch pack supports my contention a l along that is is either a design flaw, a mfg flaw, or both. Now, when all is said and done, it still may be precipated by the lube opverheating, but it sure does not lok like it based on this.

I think that as soon as 60 Minutes has a crying mom crying "My Baby, My Baby!" while she sits in her TL at the DayCare that Honda Motor Co. will get aggressive in this - I am sure they are actively seeking a solution now, and as my previous posts have stated, are trying to determine fault, since this will have huge cost impacts, and they have to know whether to squeeze their supplier if it is a mfg flaw, or themselves if it is a design flaw.

 

sorry, I am selling my car and buying a Toyota 4Runner Limited or a Lexus RX300 certified pre-owned

I was almost on the verge on buying the MDX, but I am going to have a heart attack if I spend 40K and the transmission blows

 

I was set on buying a new TL-S but I saw after reading about all the transmission problems, I may not. If honda came out and said ok there is a problem, and we are working on a fix, great, I would buy the car and wait for the fix. But it sounds like there just gonna let it slide. What blows is this is the only car I really wanted, I refuse to buy german, Lexus wants like 8k more for same options and less powerfull engine, G35 is nice but limited supply is driving price up to far. I may get a I35, does'nt look as nice as TL and slightly slower, but same price with Navi, and no transmission problems. I actually really pissed, I really wanted to get a TL or CL type S, but the trannie dropping from 5th to 2nd out of no where on the garden state parkway during rush hour could me certain death...

 

toyota is also experienceing major engine oil sludge problems in lexus and toyota engines. Here is the link

http://www.latimes.com/classified/au...1%2Dyourwheels


So people still maintain faith in honda/acura cuz they make great cars and I am sure that honda will find the transmission issue.

My 02 TLS is going strong with no warrenty issues

 

Yes you are right, my tranny would bang when I reversed it. It would also have a lot of difficulty shifting from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. I thought they told me it was a valve seal. Strangely enough it started having a problem after an axel seal began leaking. I had this replaced and the tranny fluid done and within a month the trouble. I was so pissed.

 

Great info, copland007. Being Customer Care, I'd still be inclined to take some of the information with a grain of salt, perhaps there is a solution and it hasn't been communicated to them.

However, I suspect that what you say is true, because if they had a fix, they certainly wouldn't keep putting in reman transmissions that blow up shortly afterward. We'll have to see if replacement transmissions installed in the last couple of months show continued premature failures.

What I have to wonder is if the 5-speed simply is underdesigned for the torque of the TL-S. There's no fixing that with tinkering with bits inside the tranny. It still seems that although there have been reported TL-P failures, it seems to be something like 3:1 or more TL-S:TL-P which have had failures.

 

I think honda/acura should recall and make adjustments or corrections on what needs to be replaced...or else.. people will be SCARED of buying Honda and Acura products. I sure Hope they are seeing this as a threat to their future potential customers.

 

im sure the transmission probs are really hitting some of us tl/cl owners but I do believe that its not bad enough to issue a complete recall my 2002 has 30k on it, no probs. I did country wide trips and many field jobs. Honda engineers did find and fix the prob or so ive heard

 

The funny thing is... my tranny was running PERFEFCTLY until the week before it started giving me issues... and I mean .. flawlessly .. and then .. ka-boom.

My take is this .. there should be MORE press coverage of this issues and other issues with other makes and models so that the publicity will force manufacturers to put more time and $$$ into a more reasonable fix. We need someone like C&D to get ahold of this information .. in their October 2002, they voted (of the cars in the $35K comparo article) the TL-S as the LEAST likely to break b/c it was simply a Honda product... um.. hello??!! I'd say that with the way they test those cars... the TL-S would be the first one to break.

 

I read that and laughed out loud! I also wrote them a letter...but, remember, Honda America is a VERY powerful company...but with Corporate greed/corruption being played out in the news everyday, I think now is the time to strike!

 

I was about to buy one, $200 under invoice when I read the stories on this forum and the LAtimes article. Well to make a long story short, my G35 is black with black interior. I paid $1200 over invoice(lot cheaper than a tranny after warranty) but man I love it and G-d willing the tranny will stay in place on the freeway. Honda needs to fix the problem or they will continue to lose sales.

 

FWIW, I just went to the websites of all car magazines that I know plus a few websites that review cars and pulled up their contact info and sent them an e-mail about this article. Also asked if they would consider doing their own investigation. And mentioned the forums on acura-tl.com and acura-cl.com.

 

I already filed my complaint to the NHTSA. So they BETTER do something about it.. otherwise.. i'm going back to Mercedes =P

 

2 flaws with your argument:

1. Toyota finally did admit it's mistake and tried to appease owners.
2. Many of the problems were with idiot owners who did not MAINTAIN their cars.

 

Thanks so much for sharing this article.

I have owned 2 Legends and one Vigor which were all great and very reliable. We generally lease our vehicles so that we have the option of simply turning the vehicle back in at lease end if we don't want to keep it and can't sell or trade it at a fair value. Because of this problem I am now soooo glad that we decided to lease our TLS. We will be sure to keep it within mileage and either sell it or turn it back in because sadly this car is most definately NOT a keeper for us.

 

There it is: Acura has to sh!t or get off the pot. While it may cost Honda to have the defective transmissions repaired, how much damage will be done to Acura's "bullet-proof" reputation by its less than prompt response to this topic, which has been an issue since March 2001.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe this bad press will convince them to put the 6 speed manual in the '04 TL-S. THAT would make me happy!

:-jon

 

I purchased a 2003 Acura TL Type-S 2 weeks ago. Since then, I've read about a water pump recall, and more scary, these transmission problems. So, I just called Acura Client Services. They say the 2003's do not have the transmission problems! I sure hope they're right! (Of course, there's still my wife's 2000 Honda Odyssey to be concerned about.)

BTW, they also say there are no recalls on this car, ie no water pump recall.

 

DMorgen:
Welcome aboard, another Mass person!

From what I've heard from Acura is that only early on '03 models would be affected. We have at least one member here who has had his 03 tranny die, and twice at that!

Assuming that the beefed up clutch pack and/or torque converter is inside the belly of your car you should be fine.

 

I wonder if the guy in the LA times story is a member of this board.. or if he at least frequents this board. Perhaps w/a non-disclosure agreement he's obligated not to post anything.

I'd like to know just how hard it was to get the press to run his story...

 

That's me Or at least part of the story. Remember that wasn't my story, I just contributed. The lady mentioned in the story initially contacted the LA Times among other sources to get press on the issue

-copland007

 

Thanks for the welcome ... this is a great forum!

Do you know when the '03 models started coming out? I'm wondering if they're still early '03 models that are being sold.