navajoDDS

Hey guys,

I just bought a 99 TL with 141,000 miles. It seems to be in pretty good shape, but the CarFax doesn't have much service history on it. I want to take it in to get a few things looked at and taken care of. The steering wheel vibrates once I hit 65 mph, but I think it has to do with the tires. There is one newer Michelin tire on the front, and the other 3 tires are Continentals and they are pretty worn. The pressures were way off when I got it, but once I fixed that it started shaking quite a bit less. I also need a new actuator for the passenger door and a new rearview mirror. I found the OEM Acura Parts website and will just order those parts and do it myself (with the help of a handy friend).

After browsing the forum here, I am thinking I should do a transmission fluid drain and fill. I must warn you that when it comes to cars, I am pretty clueless. I am doing my best to learn, but it's a slow process. I checked the fluid after warming up the engine for 15 minutes and it looked a bit on the dark side. It actually seems like it may be a bit overfilled, but I might not be on a perfectly flat surface. I didn't notice a burnt odor. I am going to take it to IPS Service, which supposedly specializes in higher end cars including Acuras. Anybody have experience with them? I know you have handle these transmissions differently than other cars, so I'm a bit nervous taking it anywhere but the dealership. I've read it can be dangerous changing the ATF in a higher mileage TL, especially since I don't know the service history. Should I be worried about this, or go ahead with the fluid change? Do I need to insist on a 3X3 or just do a drain and fill with each oil change?

While I have it in the shop, is there anything else you think I should absolutely get done? I'm sure it all depends on the condition of the car, but let me know if I should be paying special attention to anything.

The car drives great and the interior is still in very good condition. I couldn't be happier with my decision to get a TL. It took me by surprise how luxurious and fun to drive this car is for a 99! I look forward to learning more on here and appreciate and feedback for this greenhorn.

Sorry for the lengthy post and excessive amount of questions!

01tl4tl

welcome to the forum, many or most of your questions can be answered by scrolling down the thread title list here in the main section and then the special subsection- Problems and Fixes has the more common failures, DIY list gives an idea of maitenance needs and procedures
also the Wash and Wax section has great detailing tips

call ACURA Care 1 800 382 2238 x5 with cars VIN number in hand, register as new owner and ask if all recalls are taken care of

main 99 problems are ignition switch and egr system clogging, both diy fixes
Just because a shop does high end cars doesn't mean the parts guy or the tech know exactly what fluids we need- the atf = Honda DW-1 and nothing else at your trans age
Can you do an oil change? this is easier!!

to really know trans condition drain a 3 ounce sample and send to blackstone labs- look them up online- 20 bucks to have mass spectrograph reading = let science guide your next step on fluid change

Any signs the timing belt and water pump were replaced around 100kmiles? look for bolts on covers showing tool wear marks
that will be your biggest expense and priority right now
for tires on the low price but work fine- see ads on CL craigslist- type in 205 + tires and discount places will show up= you can figure it out from there. Off brand name and made in small country is ok- for half the price of big names

Have the tech look at normal wear out items- control arm bushings in front very common

Catfisha

Damn, if only I still had an ESI-MS to monitor my tranny.... Hell, I even might send in a sample; mine was rebuilt a little over a year ago....

01tl4tl

on the rear view mirror- that thing is bad news- retail $130+ but a couple of our sponsoring dealers will hook you up in the 80-90 range
see the Vendor list or Dealer list links, make to sure to mention acurazine when you call
Note if you have tinted film on the rear window - the auto darkening feature of the high dollar mirror wont work!
in that case- thinking of tight budget and many repairs = a small mirror you glue on to glass- from any parts store will work nicely

01tl4tl

a sample of atf or engine oil is a good idea for all of us. blackstone labs is well trusted by ziners look them up online and read about testing-
see reports on cars they tracked over a long period- several test, and predicted changes

Amazing what you learn about bearing wear- clutch particulate matter and fluid condition
They have a database of every car or fluid they have tested- and compare it to your readings, A human writes an interpretation and suggestions.

Those who want to run 15kmile engine oil changes should test at 7000 miles -extra $5 to predict remaining life of oil on blackstone test

Knowledge is power, a full fluid change-out with the newer HONDA DW-1 fluid is smart for a year since rebuild, and every year
Keep oil fresh and lubricating well can save money sooner and later, or keep the car running a few more years- several more years...

01tl4tl

Navajo: www.owners.acura.com go there with VIN and register as ownewr ( in addition to 800 number given before) Download free copy of the owner manual
The correct method for cking YOUR YEAR TL is in that book
Driving in stop and go is NOT the way to do it!!! Some have cold read and others say 15 minutes freeway then ck = so your years book is the correct way for you
HONDA DW-1 atf ONLY

The correct level is `BETWEEN the 2 dots`, not at either when at specified temp/method
Wipe the stick clean- reinsert fully and remove- take reading

Catfisha

.....or FOREVER!

That's some good info!!

On the rear view mirror, I bought a replacement mirror with the auto-dimming and a compass. The mount did not match the weird, reverse wedge-type mount, so I had another mount glued on next to the old one. I thought for sure that extra piece of metal on the windshield would drive me crazy, but I really don't notice it often...

3.2TLc

With these older TL's ..... ya gotta be somewhat mechanically inclined and think out of the box a bit, otherwise the expenses will eat ya up ...... especially at the dealerships or pro shops. This site will help educate ya on the basic problem issues and fixes. Most of the stuff is relatively simple after ya know that ya have a good working tranny. The 2nd Gen TL's are great cars and will run indefinitely if the tranny issues and required PM's done.

navajoDDS

Wow, thanks everybody. I wasn't expected such great responses. I am going to go ahead to take it in to IPS Motorsports to get the ATF done. I told them I wanted a drain and fill with Honda DW-1. I wouldn't mind trying to do it myself, but I'm in dental school and my wife and I just had our first child a week ago so life's pretty hectic right now. I want to get it done before my parents come out to see their grandkid since they will probably be using my car. I'll try it myself next time. IPS is also going to take a look around to see how everything is looking. I'll ask about the wheel bearings, ball joints, control arms, and tie rods with regards to the steering wheel shaking. Now that I found this place I'll be sure to do some research when/if they give me a list of potential problems! I registered with owners.acura.com and it looks like the ignition recalls were fixed, but it still says the recall for the transmission is open. Hopefully I got lucky with the transmission.

I already have a thread about tires in the tires and wheel section so I won't dwell on that. I'm still torn about which size to get: 205, 215, or 225. I like the thickness of the 225, but maybe I should just stick with OEM. I'll just find something that works with my budget.

One last quick question. I just got the A/C recharged, but it still struggles on those hot days. If it's not too hot out there the A/C works fine and gets nice and cold. But, when the sun is blazing it just never gets cold, even on the freeway. I can just have the shop take a look at it when they have my car tomorrow.

Thanks again for all your quick responses. It feels good to be part of such a great community. I'll keep you guys posted!

teggyturnedtl

Just thought i would throw this in there but there is a member selling a rearview mirror not sure if its exactly the one you need but here is the link

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/interior-rear-view-mirror-auto-day-night-917092/

AMart83

Another thing that you should check is the motor mounts. The 2nd gens have crappy motor mounts that don't last and will need to be replaced once every 50-80k miles (unless you go for the XLR8s,but they vibrate more than the OEM mounts).

navajoDDS

Thanks. I'm going to buy it off him and save a few bucks!

navajoDDS

I got a call back from the shop. They didn't find anything alarming that requires urgent attention. They are doing the transmission fluid and changing the filter. He said the tires are causing the shaking which is what i suspected. He quoted a set of Pirelli P7's for around $540 installed or a set of Generals for $460. The guy I talked to said he thinks 225/50/16s will give a better ride. It seems like most people here will run 225/55/16s or the OEM size. Any thoughts?

I'm not sure I'm sold on those tire options. I think I would rather order the Hankook Ventus S1 noble2 off tire rack. $440 shipped - $60 rebate = $380 + $16-20 per tire installation = <$460 total. I guess that's not a huge difference. Are the Pirelli's worth the money? Maybe I should just get a set of more economical tires. I'm all over the place. Ever since we had this baby all I see are added expenses!

I'd love to hear some input on the 225/55 size tires and which brands people have had success with.

01tl4tl

you have a wife and baby so COMFORT and safety are your priorities in tire selection

Look on Craigslist to find the local places that carry tires of odd names, for half the price, I use them- that should tell you enough! (mine allegedly made by kumho with tread design details and operating specs to back that up)

205 is all the width you need- more tire is less mpg!
60 series is the most bump absorbing size you can get- the wife appreciates that like you cant believe!! lower number is lower tire height to width profile, so the sidewall is stiffer and transmits road sensations to suspension and frame = seat

Some days I wish for 80 series tires when dodging potholes on the 45s
ahhh, the good ol days with the pickup truck and giant soft cushy tires drive right thru them holes!

A plain normal looking tread design is all you need- not the racer strips and V channels that make up summer/performance tires

Get `M/S`(mud/snow rated) `all season` = normal tires for use in all road conditions and outside temps
Special Summer tires don't work very well below 32F~

01tl4tl

did the prob with ac not working well after recharge get solved??
- probably the fan not working- passenger side must come on with ac- or its got no cooling airflow thru system
overheat will affect many other systems!!

AMart83

How much did you pay for the tires? I'd like to have some kind of reference so I know whether or not I'm getting a good deal.

navajoDDS

01tl4tl you convinced me. I'll go with the 205/60/16 and find one of those places you were talking about and save some money. I haven't heard back about the A/C. He said he'd check for a leak but I doubt he'll dive too deep into it unless I want to pay an A/C diagnostic fee. I found some good stuff on here about the fans and relays. Maybe I'll try to narrow down the problem list and go from there.

navajoDDS

I've learned the hard way why most of you guys do things yourself. The shop called yesterday evening and said the transmission filter they needed would not arrive until the next day, so my quick transmission fluid drain and fill turned into a 2 day project. When he called today to say it was ready he said they actually didn't end up using the filter kit bc there was no sign of a filter in the transmission. When I picked up the car it was raining and the baby was screaming so I hurried and drove home. When I looked at the bill I noticed they put ATF+4 transmission fluid in it. When we originally spoke I specifically told him I only wanted DW-1 in it. I called them up and asked what kind of ATF they used and he said Peak ATF+4. I told him that's not what I asked for and he said he did some research and everything he read said the Peak would work just fine. Companies are always going to say you have to use their fluid but it really didn't matter. He also said they were the same formulas. I don't know much about this stuff, but everything I've read said to only use DW-1. Is there a difference between these?

I told him I wasn't happy with how they handled this entire situation and would like to have them switch out the fluid for the one I asked for. He said he'd check with the shop manager tomorrow and give me a call back.

Here's the breakdown of my bill:

R&R trans fluid labor - $67.90 (they charge $97/hr)
Clean air filter - $48.50

Advance Automatic Transmission Fluid - ATF+4 - $6.99/qt X 7 = $48.93
(Does it usually call for 7 quarts?)

total - $180.64

I guess it's time for me to start learning how to do these things myself to avoid these situations in the future. If anyone can shed some light on the type of ATF they put in I would appreciate it. I need to know if I need to raise hell tomorrow or just let it slide.

Thanks again!

Catfisha

There is an internal filter inside the tranny, but you'd have to open the case to get it...and while you're in there, might as well do a rebuild... That other filter is a secondary filter that some people add onto the tranny cooler line. I've heard pros and cons on the subject...

As for the fluid, I'm not sure....

3.2TLc

Hey NavajoDDS, If the shop doesn't agree to what you originally requested, go talk to the manager personally and politely discuss the matter. Maybe if you would offer to help pay towards the extra cost of DW1 ..... Perhaps get a partial refund and go elsewhere or maybe try DIY, IDK.

The shop needs to own up and at should've at least called you if they were going to use something different than what you had originally requested. Especially since the job went into the next day. They shouldn't assume these things without your prior approval.

As of now, a full 3x3 "Drain & Fill" would be required to remove the Peak ATF product. This would mean buying a case of Honda DW1. Sorry for the situation, but doing the D&F is almost as simple as changing motor oil.

On a side note, what was the filter cleaning work done ? Seems questionable.

navajoDDS

the funny thing is that he said the DW-1 would cost $5 more a quart and I told him I would have happily paid for that. He did some more checking and saw that he could get the DW-1 for basically the same price. I did a search for Peak ATF+4 and Peak has 2 ATFs: Peak Dexron III/ Mercon ATF and the full synthetic Dexron VI. The full synthetic does say it's acceptable where Honda DW-1 is called for. I'll talk to the manager tomorrow but I was curious if anybody here uses anything other than DW-1 and what the results were. I've heard people say on here that the wrong ATF can wreck these transmissions.

I have K&N filters, so thats what they cleaned. $50 seems a bit steep to clean it. Might as well just put a new one in there for that price.

AMart83

I would have asked for a full refund and taken my business somewhere else. Come to think of it, I would have just done the transmission fluid change myself. If they're willing to skimp out and not follow your instructions, how can you trust them to work on your car? That's just my 2 cents.

AMart83

If it weren't for the fact that you checked your invoice, they likely would have never told you that they were using a different transmission fluid. Agreeing to take job on while disregarding your explicit instructions constitutes lying in my book.

01tl4tl

so one guy looked up trans capacity in a book = 7 qts, not knowing how much actually comes out- compared to a normal car trans, or about the EXTERNAL filter on the trans
so basically they have never seen a TL before

total bs on the he did research- same person who didn't know how much fluid- also told parts store to send some atf, DW1 is a buck or 2 more at the dealer-retail price!!! but they got this crap for a buck a qt,,only used 3, sent the rest back and charged you for 7, that's called FRAUD
tech ( I use the term loosely here) probably didn't ck the level afterwards because he didn't know how much it really drained, pop the plug and go have a smoke
it will drain up to 3.5!! SO it might have 7 qts of new PLUS the 4 that was still in it- I give it a few miles before it explodes = do I LOOK like Im kidding?

the OWNER is who is responsible for the company, also look up your states bureau of auto repair, you have a valid complaint against them and all damage this fluid issue causes-
mention acurazine- the internets largest gathering of acura enthusiast and major gurus- tell them a special thread regarding this issue and place of biz is currently on here,,amazing what happens when you go online and tell 10,000 people of your bad experience

ANY FLUID but Honda dw1 is the wrong fluid. how do we know- because the cheap or brave have tried about everything out there, guess what keeps the trans alive?
guess what kills it? the wrong fluid

a full 3x3 which is actual 4 times (1st time done cold) of draining trans of the approx. 3 qts it will give up at one draining- with the rest trapped in the torque convertor and internal lines- a normal car has a pan you remove and access filter and drain a good amount of fluid- still has sone in TC that way too
you need to do a 4/3x3 follow owner book exactly, to get rid of offending fluid= you need to push more fluid thru

K&N filter calls for cleaning every 50,000 miles, and the kit to clean and re-oil is $15 at any parts store AND does the job 5 times!! ck if its been over oiled- that will really cause problems! takes a few minutes to spray the cleaner on - the rinse and blow dry- spray new oil and done
don't trust these same people to know how much filter oil is correct- the whole can I guess?? dededeeeee,,no 1/5!!
my neighbor did that- applied whole can of oil the filter and fouled every system downline -

01tl4tl

I would make a written complaint to the owner, add copy of this threads post, with copy to manager and to the State

AND do the work somewhere else or at home- I would not trust these guys- its like sending back food, will it be spit on when in when it returns? will the shop actually use the right fluid and procedure?

you should get a refund and be happy with that- don't let that shop near the TL again
For the overcharge and lost time with them- tools and parts become a simple diy for you

ps Go CK the atf level before you drive!!!- if its really got 7 added.......

Catfisha

Wait....they charged you $50 for a fawkin' air filter? ! Oh helllll nah!

navajoDDS

Thanks for the quick input. I will definitely be talking to someone tomorrow about getting a full refund. I'm thinking they must have flushed the fluid, hence the 7 quarts. I was also very specific about NOT flushing. I just now saw they have had a few BBB complaints and luckily most of them were resolved with refunds. The whole thing really pisses me off. I would have been even more ignorant if it wasn't for you guys here. Looks like I'll be taking a crash course in the 3X3 drain and fill technique. My father in law owns a lansdcape company and should have the tools I'll need for the job. Between dental school and a new baby this was the last thing I wanted to worry about, but it needs to be done. Thanks for everyone's input, I'll be sure to mention the forum when I talk to them. I'll keep you posted.

AMart83

Such as the folly of buying a used car. When you buy a used car, there's work you gotta do to ensure you don't waste the money you invested. But once you do everything that needs to be done, hopefully you will just need to do minor upkeep from here on out and the car will last you until you can afford to get yourself into a brand new car and you'll never have to worry about your car again as long as it's under warranty.

01tl4tl

all you need for tools is a 3/8 inch drive Breaker Bar and probably a bigger bar to slip over it for leverage
the bolts often stick in tight
top filler bolt is 17 or 19mm ?? who on here knows for sure???

no way these people knew how to do a drain and refill twice-justifying the 7 qts- while ordering an internal filter they cant actually replace??? and WRONG FLUID
Take my word- I was industry for too many years and have the ulcers to prove it- horrible business to be in for honest type people~

they effed!!- your BEST resolution is a full refund with them not allowed to touch anything again- please see my post on retaliation~

DIY with our instructions- we can help you- even the newest person (and grown woman) to cars has been walked thru the intake manifold cleaning!!

this is remove filler plug, to know you can- and allow air vent during drain- makes it better/faster
the drain plug fits the end of 3/8" ratchet, now let fluid drain as much as possible

01tl4tl

hey Navajo DDS Clear some space in your inbox
here is the info you asked for on shopping for tires on craigslist
link to one ad you go from there - type this- 205 16 tires - in the search box on CL for your city
here is one place BRAND NEW 215/55 ZR16 Extreme Contact Continental tires
those are way more tire than you need performance wise, many ziners would crave them
AS LONG AS you don't get weather below 32 F, buy those!
or ask if anything in a basic tire with normal Mud/Snow rating

75 per tire mounted balanced taxed= out the door is a great price- the ones in linked ad

50-75 out the door is great for any decent tire = off brand names,

navajoDDS

I cleared my inbox. I'm still on the 15 day probationary period so I can only have 2 messages at a time. I've been doing some searching on CL and have found a few good options. There's a set of Kenda's for $325 out the door, or some GT Champiros for $270. If it wasn't for the nasty Ohio winters I'd jump on those Continentals.

I am going to give the tranny fluid change a shot. My father in law has a landscape company and should have the tools I'll need. Do I need to get a special washer? I'll do some more research before I start with all the questions. That being said, Any suggestions on where to buy the fluid from?

01tl4tl

see if there are reviews online of either tire, kenda should be fine for your needs

grab a few atf drain washers at the dealer- ALSO get a couple of engine oil drain plug washers to have on hand, and 1 for atf filler hole bolt if you want to be extra safe

AMart- you saw how to look up tires in your area? and some actual prices! good luck in your search

navajoDDS

Does anybody have any experience with Milestar tires?

AMart83

I checked right after you made your post, but my results were nearly as good as yours lol. I can get 205 55 or 215 60. But I'll just call up the shops that did yield results and see if they carry 205 60s. Thanks for the sharing the info 01tl4tl!

3.2TLc

Any of those sizes will work equally well and serve your basic purposes.
Just go with the best overall package value installed and balanced. Compare the treadwear ratings.

navajoDDS

It turns out they used AMSOIL ATF. The guy I was originally talking to is no longer there anymore. The new guy said AMSOIL is better than the honda stuff. I told him I still wanted a refund. He said they'd be happy to put in an inferior ATF in there if I wanted, but I still pushed for the refund.

01tl4tl

tell him if you get a WRITTEN GUARANTEE that fluid is better than Hondas FOR YOUR TRANS- not just better fluid in general- and will give you a free acura rebuilt trans when this one tanks and fluid is found to be the problem? then leave it in there
BUT
more lies anyway- how many times has the fluid type and reason changed so far in this story????
Do you really think they put in amzoil for that price? funny you don't look that stupid!

remember these same people charged the price of a new k&n for a simple clean and reoil-- do you trust a word that escapes their lips now?

01tl4tl

its amazing how many guys working at shops disappear overnight ~

navajoDDS

You're 100% right. He tried so many times to have me come in so he can replace the fluid with the "inferior" DW-1. He just could not believe why I wouldn't want the vastly superior amsoil. I repeated what you said about sending food back to the chef. They lost my trust. He even admitted that they should have never charged $50 for the filter. I also said they overfilled my fluid. It's about an inch or so over the top dot. He's supposed to call me back and process the refund.

If one of my patients wants a tooth-colored filling and i give them a silver filling because it will last longer and have a better seal, I'd be in trouble. I really appreciate everyone's input. I'm usually a pretty laid back guy, but you lit a fire under me!

3.2TLc

Good luck and stick to your guns !!!

Keep us posted.