EnvyAce

Past couple of days ive been tackling the timing belt job. I got the new water pump in and got the old belt off. I took it off without the drive pulley being on TDC... which means both the camshaft pulleys are not TDC either. I used a wrench to get the front camshaft pulley to TDC... but cant get the rear one to TDC... it just springs around it and wont get to TDC. im planning to hav some1 hold it still at TDC when putting the belt on.

Also, Im not sure what TDC is on the drive pulley... is it the groove on the pulley aligned with the marker on the oil pump? or when u put the crank pulley on... its the dot on that pulley that needs to be aligned with the marker?? The service manual confuses me in this.


thanks

EnvyAce

anybody please? I need this information ASAP

acutee

Normally, there is a mark on the cam, and normally it lines up on the top mark behind it. if You took the belt of without having it set to tdc, normally the cam jumps when the belt is removed. If they didn't jump, just install new belt the same way you took the old belt off. IF it did, you need someone help to put on the belt while you turn and hold the cam in its original position.

I have done it before without setting it to tdc, but you have to know what you are doing. The key of doing it is that you have to mark on the old belt and the teeth position on the cam, then count the same number of teeth on the new belt and put them on exactly as the old belt.

EnvyAce

The camshafts are jumping.... but I cant get the rear one to jump to TDC. I got the front one to TDC though.
The problem is that the belt is already off. I didnt see how many teeth the old one had on each camshaft.

What is TDC for the drive pulley though... I cant seem to get a sure answer. Is it the groove lined up with the mark on the oil pump? Or is it when I put the crank pulley on and use the white mark on the crank pulley to align it with the mark on the oil pump?

acutee

Go to this link and it will have step by step for you.

http://arrc.epnet.com.oh0049.oplin.o...ain.autorefctr

bibledriver

Cams don't have TDC technically. Just make sure you have the crank at TDC and that both cams have their timing marks aligned.

Not quite sure what jumping you are looking for to align it but in my experience, it is not automated; you must position it exactly where you want it. Just nudge the cam along with small actions, not fast or drastic, not allowing it to "jump" forward or backward until you get that mark lined up.

Turns out that I will be doing mine tomorrow too. If you are still wrestling with it and I am in there, I will be glad to help with what I am seeing on my side. I have done a handful of T-belts, but not on the J32 until tomorrow. Good luck

bibledriver

Also, the rear cam has only one timing mark, align it to the mark directly behind on the head (cam mark will be at top, aligned with mark on head). Then Make sure that front cam has the #1 pointing up and aligned with the mark on the head. That is the proper positioning to install new belt.

EnvyAce

thanks guys.

But I was actually asking for the TDC of the pulley at the bottom, when you take of the crank pulley, under it is the timing belt drive pulley as the service manual calls it. What is TDC for that pulley... is it the little groove facing up??

I got the new belt on, but I had some1 hold the rear camshaft at the timing mark with a wrench.... but everything looks to be TDC now. Anything i should check before I can close it up? Im almost positive everything is TDC according to the manual at least. But i did have to turn both of the camshafts several times before I could get the belt on.,... that shouldnt be a problem should it?

bibledriver

you were correct about your TDC statement. Turned the camshafts alone without the crank?

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

I would not close it up without rotating the crank several times by wrench listening for any strange noises. Last thing you want to do is put it all together go to fire it up and end up crashing a valve into a piston and toasting your motor. This is why timing belts are not a DIY unless you know what the hell you are doing.

bibledriver

That should be in the manual. Also you will be able to visually see, then, that your alignment of everything is right on.

EnvyAce

i got everything to TDC and got the belt on... my only question is that does it matter how many times i turned the camshafts without the crank... as long as they are TDC now should it all be good?

EnvyAce

i will rotate the crank b4 i close it up to see. Ill be doin that in that next hour or so

bibledriver

Just as long as you lined it up, you will be fine. You didn't feel any internal contact when you turned the cams did you?

EnvyAce

I got everything back together and started the car up.... seems to be fine. The only thing is I couldnt get the Dip stick screw tight for some reason.. Ill try again tomorow but it seems to be shaking and making some noise. But the car is running fine otherwise..
Thanks for all the help

bibledriver

the dipstick is making noise, or the engine?

swalch@stanford.edu

If it runs well with normal power you got everything timed right.

That bolt for the dipstick tube is a pain. I have a 1/4" socket set and used that with a 10 mm socket.

EnvyAce

yea i actually got it using exactly that.... It seems quieter now.... Im not sure if the belt needs to break in or sumthin... but still slightly noisy very slightly...

The car has normal power and runs very smooth. just that slight noise i guess ill see if it goes away in a little bit

fsttyms1

Whats shaking and making noise?

Now with all the all the belts on With the crank on, with the line on the crank aligned with the arrow on teh cover, do the 2 camshaft marks line up properly with the plate behind it?

VQPower37

everything is TDC, i checked several times. But the car is louder. Seems like something is loose not sure what. The dipstick I have tightened already so its not that. I lost one bolt off of the rear camshaft cover so its missing one bolt. Not sure if thats whats making noise.

Seems like the noise only comes when Im in higher gear and accelerating (as in trying to speed up in that high gear).... if im cruising though it wont make the noise.

VQPower37

This is EnvyAce btw, i didnt know my friend was logged in

Gee-TR

might be that bolt you lost man, I would take the covers apart again and make sure its not that, bolts in the cover can do a lot of damage to the motor once it gets lodged in somewhere. are the pulleys tightened to spec, how did you move the cam gear when you were trying to get tdc, if you were using a wrench on the bolt you could of possibly loosened it a bit, check the crankshaft also. Good luck

bibledriver

Did you change the belt tensioners?

bibledriver

Hell, I just got the pulley removal tool, and I have to say CRAP. How in the who-ha did you break that nut (not to be confused with busting your nut)? That bolt is insane. Soaking in PB Blaster I have so much leverage I am SCARED! Never had one this tight!

bibledriver

I can honestly say, even having broken loose bolts with more than 300 ft/lbs of torque, the sound when this bolt broke sent fear through me! That thing was seized good.

fsttyms1

yep, thats a tight one.

fsttyms1

nothing other than your work should have made it louder. If there is something louder you really need to reinspect every thing. Get that bolt (kinda doubtful that cover would make noise with all the other bolts in it.

bibledriver

Try this:
1. Go take your serpentine belt off,
2. Start your car,
3. listen and evaluate if the sound has gone away. (you can drive around the block this way - residential - and listen too.)

if it is quiet you have isolated your problem to the accessories, not the engine.

I am suspicious of your serpentine belt tensioner. I have had a noise, kinda rattley, for quite a while, worse under electrical load or w/AC on. Made me think alternator, but I got to thinking that both of those events would load the belt and therefore tensioner more. I replaced it last night during my T-belt R&R and now it is quiet as a mouse (and the tensioner is MUCH less than an alternator, so I am happy!) I just think your belt tension having been moved around a bunch during the process may now be "grumpy."

VQPower37

im almost positive the alternator and the power steering belt are not the ones making the noise. Ive heard them noisy before, thas not what it is. But i guess I can still give it a shot.... Seems like the noise comes from that area though the front right wheel well........

The bolt that I lost off the rear cover was outside, so its not stuck in there or something. I was using a wrench to turn the camshafts but I really doubt that they got loose at all, they were pretty tight.

I have a question though, since I ended up turning the camshafts so many times is there any way the valves got loose or something, making them noisy? Or it seems like its sumthin outside. like that cover? The noise sounds like its something rattling or shaking so I hope thats it and nothing major.

bibledriver

That is not how it works.

Those camshafts turn over a billion times during the life of the car. They can handle you turning them. I do worry that you made valve contact with a piston or two, but unless you were turning them with a high speed tool, it would be non-traumatic. Camshafts won't be loosened by you turning them.

I am not talking about the belts being noise, I am talking about the things your belt runs being noisy. Do me a favor: satisfy my curiosity, disconnect the Alt/AC belt, remove it, and start your engine. 5 minutes and you will have an answer and will have explicitly ruled it out or proven it true.

Grumpy, aka making noise. Give it a shot, man.

EnvyAce

i was not turning the camshafts with any high speed tool... jus an old fashioned wrench. So as long as the camshafts and the valves are intact im happy for now.

I will take that alternator belt of and drive around. Ill do that sunday probably cause 2moro im getting a new tranny in. Will let you know what the result is bro.... i hope its nuthin big.

acutee

Did you check all the marks on the cam and on the back covers after you installed the tbelt like fsttyms1 mentioned? If the sound is from the engine, it could be that you are a tooth off on the belt.

fsttyms1

if its just one off it would cause issues. Did you install the belt COUNTER Clockwise?? It needs to be installed in that direction to make sure its tight

bibledriver

If it were a tooth off, you should be able to feel the difference.
Did you put a new T-belt tensioner? If, not how did you go about compressing the current one? If so, you did take the pin out, right?
Did you for sure tighten the idler pulley?

EnvyAce

yea everything was checked after for TDC... eerything looked good. I dont feel any difference in power or anything. The current tensioner I compressed with a C-clamp and placed the pin when the holes lined up... then after installing it I pulled the pin.

The belt was installed counter clock-wise too...

The idler pulley was tightend to specifications... i think it was 33 ft-lb.\

bibledriver

Ok, cool. Tell us what happens when you remove your ac belt.

EnvyAce

so I finally got a chance to try and take of my ac belt. The noise was still there after that. Now that I can hit VTEC... which I had a little trouble with before (other thread)... I can hear the sound getting faster as the revs move higher. It sounds rattly as crap when its in VTEC. It sounds like a loose bolt or something, which is why I tightened all the timing belt covers just to make sure everything was good. Any other ideas what it could be? Is it just a noisy belt that needs to be broken in?

fsttyms1

Nothing needs to be broken in. Take the covers off and get the car running with the covers off to listen for the noise and inspect every thing behind them.

bibledriver

I wonder if the T-belt tensioner is the cupret. Kris, you ever heard of that. Otherwise, the only thing I can think of is the bearings of either the idler or tension pullies themselves making noise (which IMO is less likely than the tensioner). When I bought my parts from Acura to do the T-belt they practically calculated the T-belt tensioner by default (indicating that it is a common failure part/not worth not doing like the water pump).

Like he said, take all the covers off, reinstall the crank pulley (no belt) start the car and listen (dont go getting anything stuck in there, bad news!).

fsttyms1

The tensioner is hydraulic and shouldnt be making any noise. If any thing it would be the tensioner pulley.

They did have some tensioner issues with i believe the 03?? leaking and loosing their strength , but they shouldnt make noise.

He needs to take all the covers off and inspect every thing.