S PAW 1

Originally Posted by S PAW 1
FWD cars are great until you hit the 250+ HP barrier.



Actually, Dr. moocow said that. I was just quoting him.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^ This is true.

Currently, the technology barrier is 290-ish hp for FWD cars to maintain good handling capability. Otherwise we would have got the 300hp RL in the FWD, not the AWD format.

Big power FWD cars, such as the North-Star V8 FWD Cadillac, are only good at driving straight. Anyone dare driving that Caddy on the mountain-side twisties the same way as for a FWD sport sedan like the TL does there, will find him/her-self flying off the cliff side in no time. At this moment, there isn't a qualified FWD sport sedan that exceeds 300hp and also will handle very well.

This makes sense because for high power FWD cars, the two front tires have to do the double task of acceleration and steering tractions while leaving the two rear tires counting their fingers. But for high power RWD cars, the traction on all four tires are fully utilized when the fronts are concentrating on steering traction and the rears are solely on acceleration traction. For RWD cars, one can dump lots and lots of power onto the wide-ass rear tires with little adverse effect on the front end steering performance.

tidus888

dude.. before all you people start arguing about FWD and RWD.....

go look for the article in a Japanese Magazine XaCar where Keiichi Tsuchiya test drove the new TL-S(UA7), New G35, and the IS350 at Willow Springs....

1. TL-S 6MT - 1:36:67 sec <--- FWD
2. IS350 - 1:38:24 <---pwned
3. G35 6MT - 1:38:67 <---pwned

reference: http://forums.thecarlounge.net/zerothread?id=3177228

Stock car!!!!



my 3rd Gen TL is over 300hp after S/C... i am not having any trouble...

then you might compare power and stuff....

go youtube... search for the video where the new Civic Type-R, S2000, NSX, Integra Type-R, 350Z, NSX-S was kinda racing each other... Civic Type-R (FWD) placed 2nd in that list of cars! =)

S2000 and 350Z both have more power than Civic and RWD... they lost...

I've driven NSX and stuff... but i was really surprised with the performance of a FWD TL...


for those who talk about even with the same HP.. rwd would benefit/win... maybe in some cases... but from the examples i showed you... FWD is not as bad as you think...


ps. You can't compare 2g tl type-s 260hp.. coz the new correct will drop the HP rating, and plus, some 2g type-s has reduced power ECU... there is a little sticker that you will see to prevent the TRANNY from get screwed! FACT from HONDA DEALER FRIEND in SERVICE =)

I myself pwned an endless list of RWD car in the same class... so yea! =)

just remember! a lot of times.. it is the skills that counts =)

fsttyms1

The new SAE ratings dont mean crap and dont have any thing to do with this discussion. (in any case then our lower HP TL-S are faster than your higher HP 3rd gens)

And the New ECU Give me a break. Show me this "supposed sticker for one, Ive got the ecu laying on my desk if you would like to point it out to me.
2nd How come after 2 ECU swaps from 5 total trans replacements, my car was faster. It doesnt reduce any power peak. I reduces during shifts, not overall

tidus888

new SAE rating J1349 Rev 8/04 has changed the way horsepower is measured.. and from that the J32A3 Engine's HP Rating went down to 258HP from 270HP while BMW's changes wasn't that much... which you are not comparing properly... the fact that underpowered TL-S FWD can beat the higher power RWD and the car is OVER 250 hp.....


Check car and driver yourself and you will find the 3rd Gen TL (in terms of 6MT as tested) is faster than 2nd Gen TL Type-S... also the car is heavier.

from C/D

2G Type-S: 60 in 6.2 seconds, 100 in 16.0, and the quarter-mile in 14.8 at 96 mph
3G TL: 60 in 5.7 seconds, 100 in 14.6 and the quarter-mile in 14.4 at 99 mph


anyways... if you wanna know more about the ECU... randomly pulling off you will find it within AZ forum
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62117

i am sure you will find more if you do a search...


i have service managers in Honda dealership that knows that story... so yea...

BlakeTypeS

This may not be practical but how possible would it be to convert a 2nd gen TLs from FWD to the SH-AWD used in the newer RL models.... I know it would cost a fortune but just wondering if anyone has thought of doing this??

02type-s

I wish the TL was RWD

fsttyms1

Auto VS auto, Not auto vs 6 speed. Hell without headers i pulled a 14.9 with my 225 hp TL-P. Ive run my 6 speed swap against 2 different 6 speed gen 3s and i beat them every run every time! Im running slightly less than 13.9 (which is what my friends SC'ed maxima runs in the 1/4 and i have a slight advantage on him) with intake headers and exhaust

Oh i know all about the ECUs. Explain to me how if the reduced power how my car got faster, not slower.
What does resetting your ECU have to do with our discussion?

fsttyms1

It would probably be cheaper to just buy a RL with it

acitydweller

I think a 2nd gen TL-s would drive and handle like an older 5-series bmw with a inline 6.

thisisnotdave

Damn 13.9! Thats Lt1 camaro territory! I wish I could crack 13's in my hoopy, I still have a looong way to go.

fsttyms1

It can drive better. Just knowing how to maximize FWD is key.

BlakeTypeS

I don't think it would cost as much as an 05 RL but why couldn't you get the rear end/transfer case and transmission from the RL and install it. I do realize it would take some fabrication of brackets and the drive shafts would probably have to be shortened or extended but it seems possible. I was just wondering if anyone had considered it. Anyway Acura has no choice but to offer some sort of RWD/AWD in the up coming TL if it wants to compete with any of its competition. Even Hyundai has began to offer a 300 horse+ Rwd sedan and coupe and Apparently its faster then a BMW 335i ( I realize it doesn't matter how fast it is because it will never change the fact its a Hyundai). Anyway I love Acura just not FWD. I guess for now I can only dream for a TL that can hang with the rest...:0(

fsttyms1

Because its not just a rear end and drive shaft. The SH-AWD is ALL electrically controlled buy all sorts of yaw and other sensors ad computers. Thats just the tip of it. Then you have all the wiring and frame and body work. Unless you were able to find a really good deal on a totaled RL that you could gut thins from a RL would be cheaper

2000tlrjm

Wow, you know, a RWD TL would definitely be an added plus, but unfortunately, we won't know the full benefits. And the whole taking the AWD system from the RL and putting it into a TL, NO. Just remember that an RL is heavier than the TL, and I can bet money that the transmission is part of the reason for the weight difference. I personally don't want my TL to be any heavier than it already is.

azn_xxxd

Man RDW tl . this gone be bad ass lol

2000tlrjm

I can't wait to test drive the '09 SH-AWD TL! When does it hit the showroom floors?

scottDOTb

I would rather have awd than rwd. Ever driven in heavy rain or snow in a high power rwd car?

JCharged

iTrader: (5)

I want a real AWD performance car from Acura.

Ain't nothing wrong with FWD...I have fun in them as my daily.

RWD is fun too but damn so much more to worry about on the roads.

Regardless it still moves AWD, FWD, or RWD.

fsttyms1

Yes. And with snow tires its not bad (that and a general concept of how to actually drive a car in snow) Ever drive a 2wd S10 with a LS1 in it in the snow?? Very easy with snow tires on it. It would go thru snow as good as 4wd.

scottDOTb

I drove a 98 corvette in the snow/sleet.. One of the worst experiences ever trying to go up a hill to get into my neighborhood. I don't know if it had snow tires though.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

The nice thing about NC is not having to worry about snow so RWD or FWD doesnt matter in that aspect.

Tinky

I've always wanted a rwd vehicle & I love this car so putting them both together would be the icing on the cake. I couldn't ask for too much more.


*awd would be even better*

2000tlrjm

AWD WILL be better. Check out the '09s. You have the choice of FWD or the SH-AWD systems. THANK YOU ACURA!!!! You finally made a TL to compete with other luxury sports sedans.