typeSmaximum

….the 300M Special? I don't know why the mods closed the last thread someone else made?

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=32369

Because its not a TL? Well it’s a car in the same class/price range and power, why can't people compare it to the TL and talk about it? Maybe because of the title, and not enough TL talk?

I'm interested to see how our cars handle in comparison, as well as standard feature set though.

Also I don't know why people throw out false comments like it weighs probably 5000Lbs, (as if the TL is light) when the Special weighs 3,651Lbs, regular being only about 56Lbs lighter. The suspension is also not from the 40's, before the first 300M was not even built. (Note to commenter, if you only know one manufacturer, Honda, don’t make up stuff about others.)

Now what I like about the ACURA TL TYPE S, is that the S has noticeable HP over the regular TL while the 300M special only has 5 more HP over the regular version (using premium gas). 5 more HP!! Is that a joke? The regular can use midgrade fuel and only makes 5HP less! They give it a body kit, more aggressive look, dual exhaust over single, and only 5 fake paper-marketing HP!!! Rumor was 300Hp, that would have been nice, and good to match the name. I think its a nice car, however I'm tired how domestics now (including Chevy with some of the fake SS cars except the camaro) think performance is some badge and a different look recently!! I think the TL-S comes out on top for being more "special" and better resale value.

BLEXV6

Dude, you cannot compare a Chrysler to a Honda product due to a reliability and fit and finish difference. All you need to do is own a Chrysler. How can you buy a Chrysler when the TL is a much better car for less money.

BTW, have a further look on this page, and you will see the mods did not delete the 300M post.

Ruski

On paper they say 5 more horsepower, but the people who bought 300M Special say that it feels like much more than only 5 more horsepower.

Also even a non-Special 300M, with 250HP and 255 lbs*ft torque (compared to TL-S' 230 lbs*ft torque) on regular gas, can really move. The only reason it does not win 0-60 drag races is that it's transmission is not geared for that at all. However the 300M Special's tranny has a much different gearing.

As for fit and finish, I would say that 300M is much better than what you think about it.

Ruski

hey dude who said that 300M's suspension was built in the 40's - your brain was built in the 40's.

300M's suspension is great and can certainly take on the TL-S' suspension.

300M has great handling, turns great and goes through slalom as fast as a Corvette.

EZZ

Where the h*ll did you get the notion that the 300M is as fast as a Vette I hate to quote mag times but comparative slaloms are only on Mag times. R&T Z06 = 67.1mph 300M = 59.4. BTW the TLS got 61.0 mph.

Guest

I really don't know why people started dogging domestic cars, when you consider that Ford makes the Mustang (40+ years as a musclecar) Chrysler with the Viper, and Chevrolet with the Corvette (considered by many for the price one of the best sports cars ever produced). Even the NSX has some quality issues, as does Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini (a former Chrysler vehicle at one time ?). Even though I now own a Japanese vehicle, I still admire Chrysler for at least trying to push the envelope cosmetically, if not mechanically.

BLEXV6

I don't want to start a fight with any of you, but the quality and fit and finish on Hondas is miles better than Chryslers. Have a look in consumers reports. On a regular basis they rate used cars and the North American MFGS are always in the category of "used cars not to buy" and Hondas, Toyotas are always in the category of "used cars recommended" cosistantly every year.

Why do you see N/A vehicles with huge depreciation. If you do not care about quality, reliability and fit and finish, the 300M is for you.

AKRY

Try say that again... my 1993 Jeep GC Limited has less interior rattles/squeaks than my TLS... even all body panels are aligned properly.... whoever saying Honda's build quality is miles ahead of Chrysler(or some domestic cars) is just either, 1. Ignorant/Stereotype(I am sure most of us ain't), or 2. You haven't driven/sat in one for a while.... If you are comparing domestic to Toyota, then, I would agree with you.... but NO, Honda's fit/finish isn't as good.... we got tranny problems, interior fit/finish problems, paint problems... even Chevy Cavalier I saw at dealer has smooth paint surface... why can't Honda do the same???

Audi has HUGE depreciation as well, so does that make it a less of a car?? No, A8 ijnterior fit/finish even surpassed current S-Class(W220)....

300M is a very well build car, for a domestic.... the one I drove was very comfortable, plenty of ZOOM ZOOM for such a big car(300M is bigger than TL, on par with my S-Class), 2001 and on 300M has Luxury Package, which includes real walnut wood and wood/leather steering wheel. Some material parts don't look too upscale, and 4-speed auto is pretty much behind what's offered by competitors. And there seem to be quite a bit of road noise.... but overall, very well build car.....

Andy Kuo

Greymage

Anecdotal evidence is useless. I'm sure your 1993 Jeep GC may be much better
than your TL/S, but the fact is that the stats over the population of cars show Chryslers with worse reliability than Hondas. Obviously due to the standard curve there will always be good Chryslers and bad Hondas, but I tend to believe Consumer Report's reliability ratings over any one person's experiences.

dj5

Hope Chrysler has improved in the last 3 or 4 years. I sold my 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee and it was a POS. At 70,000 miles it was falling apart. Transmission, CV joints, cracked exhaust manifold, etc. I would never consider buying a Chrysler product again. Some of their cars look nice but I don't trust their quality and reliabilty.

1SICKLEX

I think the 300M and Tl have the SAME interiors. Same panel gaps, plasticky leather, fake wood, white gauges etc. I like the 300Ms chrome surround rims and it is VERY roomy inside. I think both interiors are quite comparable.....

Ruski

Well, there are two breeds of 300M, just like there are two breeds of TL.

Maybe the normal 300M's slalom is 59.4mph.

But the 300M with Performance Handling Group package gets much better numbers because its suspension is much sportier (to the point when many people think it is too harsh)


check this site:

http://www.so-calspeedshop.com/whats.../300Mtest.html

hemants

Regardless of any personal anecdotes, the only OBJECTIVE measures we have of reliability would put Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura above most.

Of course, this is a distribution and every distribution has tails.

EZZ

That was a modified 300M that cost $10k more! Anyone can modify their cars to be faster. With $10k more on the TLS, it would still be faster than a modified 300M.

I think the 300M is a nice car but it is not performance oriented. The gearing is aggressive on freeways but not stoplights (thus the slow 7.8 sec to 60). Comparing that to a corvette is rediculous. The Vette is one of the fastest production cars in the world (0-60 in 3.95 secs) and has a lateral grip of 1g. A 10mph slalom lead is a HUGE lead.

gohawks63

All I'll say is that a good friend of mine had a 300M which he traded in for a TL-S. He tells me that there is absolutely no comparison between the two cars no matter what you look at, performance, fit and finish, quality, reliability.

The TL-S wins hands down.

You can take all the articles, ratings, anything, I think when someone has lived with both cars, that speaks volumes.

MikesTypeS

Hey guys you seem to be forgetting one big point... That the 300M or any other car sells $$$$. The point is despite whatever quality issues these cars sell and continue to sell. Many people sell their cars before they get major problems with them. I bought my Acura, because I am going to keep it for the long haul.

Ruski

EZZ, did you see that there are two columns for 300M performance?
one on the left is for a regular 300M with Performance Handling Package installed at the factory. The column on the right is for the modified 300M (extra $10 K)

The numbers quoted in the left column are pretty impressive and in the territory of a normal Corvette.

Now the 300M Special has most of the mods that the $10K package from SoCal speed shop has, but only for $3K more than a normal 300M.



goaub - well, maybe your friend has an affinity to Acura. I drove a 300M with Performance Handling Group package for 3 years and I miss it a lot. Not to say that my TL-S is bad, but 300M "spoke" to me in a special way.

EZZ

A normal corvette doesn't do 0-60 in 7.1 seconds...and the slalom times are only relative to the slalom setup. I just don't see the 300M anywhere near corvette range (0-60 in under 5 secs!!). The lateral is still a full 0.1gs away which is pretty extensive. It does seem that it will probably be faster than a TLS but that is expected with mods.

Mr Hyde

Maybe I shoudl have got a quality Lexus like the ES huh??? No thanx I'll stick with my car and pop a Xanax before I drive if I want the same experience.

1SICKLEX

What ever toots your fiddle.....I don't think I said anything wrong, objectively speaking the quality of the two interiors are the same. If it makes you feel any better, I'd get the Tl over the 300M cause I trust Honda WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than Chrysler.......

DJ Iceman

What is your basis for saying "objectively speaking the two interiors are the same"? What cold, hard facts do you have that support that assertion? Because it sure sounds like a subjective judgement to me.

Mr Hyde

Dont mind him, he has a very hard time differentiating fact from opinion. Namely his opinions become objective while facts from others become subjective.

SCWells72

I'm not saying that I agree with 1sicklex, but I think I know what he's saying in this statement. The panel gaps, leather quality, fake wood, instrument and console arrangement, etc., are very similar between the 300M and the TL-S. Those are objective facts.

It is true that the interior of the TL-P/TL-S is one of the places where you can see Acura's cost savings in action...only providing leather seating surfaces instead of full leather upholstery, tacky looking fake wood, abundance of hard plastics, bulging passenger side airbag, etc. I think that a cheap looking interior is one of the reasons that people attack the 300M also (aside from Chrysler's perceived reliability issues), although the 300M now has real wood, full leather, etc.

Ruski

Also 300M's front passenger's air bag has no visible seams.


Hey EZZ - please don't put words in my mouth. I NEVER compared 300M's 0-60 to Corvette's 0-60 (or any acceleration tests). Only a sick individual would even think about a possibility of such comparison. I only pointed out the similar slalom speeds

1SICKLEX

I am real anal about interiors. I HATE panal gaps. If you look at most cars the doors don't meet the dash right. The leather is like 3 different colors (a HUGE 300M issue with me). How the airbag fits, glovebox. How are the seams in between the seats. Do the switches feel cheap, are they sturdy. DO the blacks match or are they 15 different tones of black. Most cars have these issues and some a hell of a lot more than others.

Don't get me started on fake wood,AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, if you can get fake wood in a 12k Corolla or Kia, what place does it have in ANY 30k+ car or truck.

The 50+ k Escalade is a joke judging by it's pathetic interior alone, if you fee that is luxury........

Slalom. C'mon, a GS 400 can do a .91 easily L-tuned and compared to a vette or say M3 at the same .91, guess which car FEELS a whole lot better. THe vette or M.

Some cars are capable of great slalom numbers but trust me, the driver is SWEATING!!!!

Oh yeah the 1992 ES interior is just as solid as most of these 'NEW" cars IMO.......NO PANEL GAPS!

EZZ

Haha. Sorry, didn't mean to quote 0-60. I still think the slalom speeds favor the corvette heavily. However, the 300M with the package ran some impressive times. Those times are still slower than other sport sedans times. For example, the 300M with the package had 4mph faster than stock but in other Mags, the IS300, BMW 330 both ran about 8 mph faster than the stock 300M. So that puts the 300M midway between a TLS and a IS300.

typeSmaximum

First of all, they did not delete the other thread, nor did I say so, or how could I link to it? I was asking why they would lock it?

Secondly, Ruski..Who's brain are you talking about, not mine, maybe yours? If you had read the first post, I said it was NOT made in the 40's and does NOT weigh 5000Lbs unlike y2ks2k said in the last post on the thread I linked before it was locked. You did not say his or her brain, but "your brain" so I'm not sure you are reading right.

"Probably weights 5,000 pounds. Besides the fact that its supension and body design is still probably from the 40's" --y2ks2k

I then noticed he had nothing but honda products and it upsets me when people say things they have new clue about. I then noticed I could not reply, and was wondering why the mods locked the thread, and had to say something so did it here.

I'didn't know this was such a hot topic, but what I was looking for is the handling and speed, which I got

DJ Iceman

I still contend that statements like "The TL has a cheap interior" are subjective and not based on facts. Comparing 0-60 times or gas mileage can be objective.

I admit that I wish the TL had a full leather interior, and some of the plastic parts are not as "solid" as I'd like (opening/closing the glove box, for example). On the other hand, I think the real wood vs. fake wood thing is completely overblown. Maybe I'm just an ignoramus, but I can't tell the difference! As long as it looked classy and matched the interior, I wouldn't care if a $100K car had "fake" wood. And the TL's interior is classy, ergonomic, and clean. I've only had a 300M as a rental car, but in my subjective view the materials quality and layout was much poorer than any Acura.

Ruski

typeSmaximum, I did not refer to you. Sorry if that made you feel this way. I referred to the posted in another 300M vs TLS thread who said that 300M's suspension and looks were from the '40s.



Now, whoever is complaining about only seating areas in TL being leather - most modern cars now are like this. To get full leather, you need to buy a Lexus Coach edition or an expensive Jaguar or even more expensive Rolls Royce or Bentley.

1SICKLEX

I think the 300M interior looks good. Love the chrome rings. Decent design, good sized buttons, shifter looks awful though...

TL interior has the classic great Honda/Acura guages, good layout, simple and understated.

Next time around I think both cars interiors will get better quality control wise......

typeSmaximum

So 0-60 with the better gearing of the Special, and close power with the TL, who will still win? Stock, I think the Special may even outperfrom the TL-S in handling.

EZZ

Stock, I think the special would outhandle the TLS. In a straight 0-60 match, the TLS would have the advantage.

Guest

The Lexus Coach Edition only used "Coach" leather instead, they didn't add more leather. And by the term "seating surfaces", it usually means only the areas where your back and bottom make contact, so the side bolsters, seatbase, and seatback are synthetic. The C/E-class, 3/5-series, A4/6 and ES/IS/GS feature full leather (at least as an option on some) btw.

Lrpba300

Uh, another point here. Not to take sides, but personal preferrences aside, the 300m looks good. However, something I ALWAYS take into concideration is the resale (trade-in) value of a vehicle. Honda/ Acura, like it or not, have a greater resale value on car lots than Most american cars. I don't have Blue book figures handy, but I bet the value doesn't hold up as well as Toyota/ Lexus, Honda/Acura, or Nissan/Infiniti compairable cars. When I've spoken to car salesman here in this area, they always say, "they can't keep Hondas/ Acura's on the lot. The cars sell themself's". It may be preceived value, or a truism that just exsists in business sense!