neuronbob

Hi folks,

I am new to AcuraTL.com, and I have a big decision to make. I've been drooling over the Acura TL series this year--so badly that I'm now willing to trade in my 2000 Intrepid (please don't laugh, it's been an excellent car, and for its size, I can drive it VERY aggressively in the twisties!). Another reason I'm willing to trade in is because it's time for me to return to the Honda family of *reliable* cars. I've owned several Hondas in the past and have been a fan of both Honda and Acura since the '80s (anyone got a 1990 FWS Prelude? my dream car in college).

The only decision left, folks, is whether to go TL or TL-S. I recently test drove both (neither as aggressively as I'd like, though ). I frankly didn't find that much difference between driving the TL and TL-S other than that the TL-S had, not surprisingly, better pickup from a stop, and that the TL-S was firmer. Both cars have exemplary communication with the road, have the sport shifter, and beat out my beautiful Intrepid in acceleration. I see people on this bboard who enjoy and mod both the TL and TL-S.

I've decided I'm going to buy a TL-series, without navi, and will be purchasing in about three weeks from now. So, I need help: TL or TL-S? Do I need to spend the extra money for the S? I can afford either, so cost isn't the issue. But is spending the extra 1-2k worth it? Thank you for your deep wisdom....

Bob

daverman

Yes, yes, yes. I have the TL-S and it's worth the extra dough. You get bigger wheels, firmer suspension (but not uncomfortably so), and a more powerful engine, as well as VSA, torque-sensitive steering and a more responsive steering wheel.

The extra power is noticeable not just at pickup, but at 3800 RPM when the butterfly valve opens in the intake plenum. That "pre-VTEC rush" is exhilirating... until you hit VTEC for real, that is!

If I had to do it over again, I'd go for the Type S, no question about it.

SL1200MK4

I would get the Type S just for the Engine, VSA, rims, and that torque-sensitive power steering.

But one thing that I would like to point out is that... I don't know how bad is the build quality is your car, but the TL is made in the States as well. And myself don't have a really good exprience with the service at Acura. I will never buy another Acura just because of the service and the build quality.

To be honest, it seems to be an better deal at first, then I realize that it does got $hitty build quality (rattles, ECU computer failure...etc.) You really get what you paid for, and I had rather pay more for the Bimmer/Lexus.

BLEXV6

The bottom line is that you can only decide which car is best for you, based on the test drive. If you need more power, with this in the S you also get a noisier engine and firmer ride. With the non S, you get a smoother and quieter ride.

Regarding quality, I have 12,000 miles on my TL and I have had no problems and think it is a high quality car. The problem with people on this board is that they are really anal and should have spent more a got their Lexus, but they didnt did they?

daverman

You say "anal" like it's a bad thing. :p

I've got a couple of rattles and squeaks on my TLS, and I'm taking it to my dealer's once again to get them figured out.

It's true that TLs have their fair share of fit and finish problems. Buyer beware! But I think that you still get far superior value for money than anything else you can shake a $30k stick at.

SL1200MK4

well I am not bashing the TL here... come on... I own one and drive one after all...

I am just saying that... it's got it's own problems and to be honest you get what you paid for... At least that MHO. Another way of saying it is that maybe some people can live with some rattles here and there... but some are willing to pay for the made in Japan and perhaps better quality lexus...

And if you are comparing it to the bimmer... well if you drive your car hard and handling means something to ya... then you will appreciate the depth of engneering BMW has to offer...

Bartleby

Get the type s. i got mine 5 months ago and havent looked back.

2001TL4KCdude

get the TL (w/o type S) spend that extra on a Navigation. You got 225hp.. Who you gonna race? 225hp V6 is very very powerful. Look at the other V6 sedan and most of them have <200hp.

wiggingboy

I also traded in a 99' Dodge Intrepid for my TL. I"m gald i made that choice. I felt like i was driving around town in a boat.
only regret is not getting a type s.

hooked2TL

i think all of us if we could, would get the Type S. I'm happy with with the Tl-P, but if i could, it woulda been a Type S.

Shyne

get the type-S...Buy a few mods to really buckle it down to tha road such as springs &sways and help it breath a little better with an intake and exhaust...make the dealer include a spoiler and body kit at closing just to make them throw out a deal...Shyne

neuronbob

To wiggingboy: The 2000 Intrepid was actually much better than previous Intrepids in that it came standard with 16" wheels/tires, and wide ones at that. This alone makes it MUCH more fun to drive than your '99 probably was. it also had more power (200 hp for my base model). It definitely doesn't drive like a tank--I only notice the size when I have to back up--I've thought about putting a backup alarm (you know, BWEEP-BWEEP-BWEEP!) on it. My biggest regret with the Intrepid, though, is that I didn't wait six more months to get the R/T.

To everyone else: It's sounding like the TL-S enthusiasts are making their appearance. In order not to repeat the mistake I made above with the Intrepid (e.g. not getting the "phatter" R/T), I have been heavily leaning toward the S.

As far as build quality complaints go....you guys should go to the Dodge Intrepid repair boards at edmunds.com. You guys gripe about minor fit and finish troubles. The Dodge guys gripe about doors that don't quite fit in the frame!!!! And believe me, transmission problems don't faze me! That's why I buy extended warranties! Even Hondas built in the USA have generally better build quality than American cars (though they're getting better), and I'm willing to take the risk. Good example is my very own Intrepid. The tranny failed at 625 miles. I would have dumped the car except that my dealer was wonderful--instead of DaimlerChrysler's prescribed part replacement, they convinced DC to buy me a whole new transmission. I've had no problems since and this car has actually turned into one of the most reliable I've ever owned.

So why am I switching? Even though I love my Intrepid, I just plain like the TL-series better now.

AKRY

If you are not much into racing/speed/horsepower, TL-P is more than adequate, and you would be much happier with the ride comfort, and save the $$ and put it toward Nav....

Andy Kuo

Nate

Please listen to me here: GET NAVI. I regret not getting it all the time. Get the navi. Do it. No questions.

I'd go for the Type S just because you get a lot more for not a lot more money. But either way, get the navi.

Crav4Speed

I second that!!! DO NOT, i repeat, DO NOT leave out the navi!!! I kick myself in the @$$ everyday for not getting it and for what? to save an extra $20 a month??? get the navi... and if I didnt get my car 10 months before the Type-S came out I definitely wouldve bought the Type-S

BrooklynTL

I got my TL with Navi about a month ago and I'm lovin it. Money was an issue for me, I had a choice to use the 2 grand for the navi or get the S...I chose the navi.
I think the navi gives the interior much better styling, I hated that empty tray that comes out (still don't know the purpose of that thing), the navi can really be useful also because it also acts as a phonebook (yellow pages) besides just having it as just another cool gadget...if money is not an issue I would definitely get the Navi, no doubt.
As for the S, it was tempting to get for the bigger rubber and better rims (more for my taste), and the extra ponies of course.
It came down to what I thought I would be using more often which was the navi and also the difference in power isn't all that drastic..its not like we're comparing 0-60 time of a Taurus and a M5.
In my opinion, the bottom line is if money is not an issue like you said then I would get the Navi and the TL-S.

initialD

That's I want to say.Thank's

daverman

Yes, yes, yes. Get the Navi. You-must-get-the-Navi.

Come to the dork side.

No really, GET THE NAVI.

neuronbob

Yes-I-will-get-the-navi ....must....resist....temptation....urrrrg..

I'm not a big fan of the navi's technology. When I test drove the TL, I found it to be something of a distraction. In addition, I drive to several places that are not on the DVD's files. Though I'm a geek of the Palm-Pilot/cell phone/pager/getthefastestAthlonandmobo ilk, sometimes there is just no substitute for paper.

I'm still leaning TL-S because of the VSA and extra horses, but the TL is still in the race. I'll be test driving again shortly to make a final decision.

neuronbob

By the way, how much is an Acura rear wing? That's my first planned mod, if you can call adding a wing a mod. And have any of you had any success in having it added to your deal (e.g. thrown in)?

Thanks for all your comments, they are ALL very helpful.

More thanks if anyone can tell me where they got their deal in the Cleveland-Akron area. There are only two Acura dealerships (in Bedford and Akron) and I live only 1 mile from one, so I just need to know which one is better.

wbr

I just traded my 99 300M in for a TL-P. I have to say that I understand and acknowledge you comments about the build quality of DC, although I think the Mercedes factor will dramatically improve their quality. I loved the car, but it just wasn't put together like an Acura. As far as where the car is built; it's irrelevant. Acura's are designed and manufactured to Japanese specifications, just as Lexus is. The fact that they are produced in Marysville, OH has nothing to do with their quality. I am very pleased with my decision on the non Type-S. It would easily keep up or outrun my 300M, and it's more quiet and solid feeling. It may not keep up with the 300M in the turns, but it feels like it can, and that's half of the battle. As far as the rear wing, DO NOT buy a non-factory one. I tried buying one from the link off of this web site at Autocarparts.com, and after sending 2 different wings, neither of them matching, I went to the dealer and had one installed that matched perfectly. It cost $600 for the spoiler and $75 for the installation.

wbr

I would like to say that autocarparts had no problem with me returning both of the rear wings they sent me, and refunded my money with no problem. They are competent and easy to deal with.

Nate

I'm glad to hear Tim at Autocarparts took good care of you trying to get your wing to match, though I find it strange it didn't match to your liking. I bought one from Tim (my first mod as well ) and it matched my silver TL perfectly! A "factory-like" spoiler runs about half a factory spoiler does, and they are the same animal.

mackdaddy

Get the Type-S, Bob. No doubt about it. You'll regret it later if you don't (as stated in the Intrepid deal.) The extra money is well spent here.

I choose no NAV, and do not regret it. I can live without this no problems.

If you don't mind driving to the Cols. area, you've got two additional choices. Acura of Columbus (my choice), and Lindsay Acura. Both are fairly competative.

Jim

PS - Acura factory spoilers are around $500 from this site (Tim.) You can install it yourself (I did on my previous Accord SE sedan) without issue. Just let the dealer install the new trunk springs, they're a PITA.

city001

I was like u at start... Wondered if i should get navi or not. I thought what's the use of getting a navi when i have maps.

After I got the navi....I'v never gotten lost ever again
So get the NAVIGATOR!!!

it's worth it!

city

cycx

Must...go.....faster.....
need....type-s

neuronbob

Checking back in, boys and girls! I just put a deposit on a silver TL-plain. It should arrive next week. I guess it's an advantage of living about two hours from the factory in Marysville, OH. TLs, as it turns out, are MUCH harder to find than TL-Ss, and especially without the nave, and the discounts are fewer, at least here in NE Ohio, and especially with only two Acura dealers in the area.

So why didn't I go with the S? TOUGH decision, probably the toughest auto purchase decision I've ever made. But the TL-P has everything I need. I don't like the idea of the VSA (I've heard a lot of complaints about it, and I feel I can drive in a curve better than a computer; I'd always leave it off if I had it, so why have it?). I LOVE horsepower. But 225 hp is enough to get me to 60 in 7.x seconds, good enough for me. As far as the ride, the S isn't really THAT different from the plain. And besides, replacing the shocks and tires for a firmer ride are not that expensive a mod, and I can do that once I've had the car for awhile.

JUST to make sure I made the right decision, I'm going to the dealer to test drive a second time this weekend--the dealer is willing to reorder if I change my mind--I was offered a decent deal for either the TL-P or S.

THANKS EVERYBODY! I'll be looking for mods in this forum, and will update once I have possession of the car.

neuronbob

I took delivery of a 2002 Nighthawk Black Pearl/Parchment TL tonight....
Long story.
I visited a total of three Acura dealers. One I just didn't like. The second gave me an excellent price for the TL, but when I showed up to make a deal the sales team failed to take me seriously. I was offered a ridiculously low trade in value, and was basically refused a chance to negotiate. At least they were honest and stated they didn't want to deal with me. I'm not sure whether it was because I look younger than my age (I'm 33 but look to be in my early-to-mid 20's), am black, had my wife with me (usually a good thing!!!)or what, but that particular dealer lost a sale. His loss!

The third dealer is virtually around the corner from where I live. They took me seriously and treated me well from the first test drive a couple of months ago (though they admitted later that they initially thought we were just a couple of young kids looking for a ride --say that to me when I'm 50 and you've got a bud forever...). They offered a VERY reasonable deal on my trade AFTER giving the standard spiel that the used car market was horrible, which is true. I didn't get the best price on the TL itself comapared to the other two dealers, but a) TL supply is tight in my area, and so this is expected and b) sometimes you get what you pay for--in this case I got a responsive salesman/dealership. They also had one of the colors I wanted--no silver, but NBP/Parchment looks just as cool in the garage...

Lesson learned: Sometimes buying a car is about more than the price of the car. The dealer learned that when you respect your customer, you get a sale. With the first two dealers, if the salespeople were so picky, what about the service deparment? Didn't sound like people I wanted to deal with anyway.

Any case, if you find yourself in the Cleveland, OH area and want to buy an Acura....go to Motorcars Acura. I'll even give you the name of the salesman I used on request. If my experience in the sales department was any indication, they've got a long-term customer, especially if the service department is fair.

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP! Will post some pics when I get some time off.

---
neuronbob
2002 NBP/Parchment TL-Premium
No mods....yet!

mackdaddy

Congrats, Bob! Welcome to the famly.....

Enjoy the ride - Jim

bebber

Excellent. Nice to hear that you got your TL after your careful searching and research.

One question: did you get the Navi?

typeSmaximum

No navi here and I don't miss it. Its not like any of you use it everyday. If I were to get the MDX, I would get the Navi, as it has a feature for off-road, and would use it more for trips.

bebber

I use my Navi all the time. More often than not. Even just today, I wanted to take a different route home through some nice residential areas and used my navi to find some neat routes through the hills.

The overall consensus among most navi users, is that it proves to be much more useful than you would initially expect. This of course is dependant on whether your neighborhood is mapped on the DVD.

typeSmaximum

Well I know my city pretty good, and its not too small. Its not on the DVD anyhow, only major streets, so it wan't that good of an option for me. I've seen otheres with DV< and use it a lot for the first few months, then never, only on trips, so not worth it in my case.

neuronbob

I decided against the navi and don't miss it. Though the Cleveland area is pretty large, I'm familiar enough with most of it that I wouldn't use the navi, so why pay for it?

wbr

Get the rear wing and tint your windows. Those 2 things make such a dramatic difference in the look of the car. I think you'll really like them.

neuronbob

...one step at a time. I'll probably start by replacing the stock air filter with a K & N filter. If I can find a decent tinting shop around here, that's certainly an option. Do you have pictures of your 35% tint?

Nate

Congrats! Too bad you didn't listen tho.