Does anyone know any computer chipset available for 2001 3.2TL?
Any company produce chipset for 3.2TL yet??
I am sick of the factory computer..... RPM ever never go higher than 6500rpm ......damn~
I wanna modify my computer chipset.....but it seems never available in the market .......

 

Are you trying to rev your engine past redline? Remember that your engine computer stores your highest RPM number. If you ever have engine trouble, the Acura dealership will ask you about running past redline and may give you problems with your warranty service.

 

Why would you want to pass 6500? Max hp is attained at 5600rpm. You are not making anymore hp after that point unless you have a whole bunch of engine mods.

As for revving past redline, the rev-limiter will stop you from doing any damage. If the ECU really stores the highest rpm, that value should be equal to or less than what the rev-limiter is set to. Eitherway, the dealer should not give you any problems.

 

Jet Performance may have one for the TL. But not for the TLS.

Also, the purpose of a chip isn't and shouldn't be to let you turn more RPM.

It should be about changing Air/Fuel ratios and VTEC timing to eek out additonal HP and or torque. Usually at the expense of gas mileage.

RUF

 

I was told that there is a chip available for the TL. But it is available only in Japan/HK. My source told me he could get
it, but when I asked him to get one for me, he stalled. I have no reason to believe he would lie to me, but then again...

IF this chip exists, and IF I can get my hands on one, I'll definitely let all of you guys know. BTW, what's the website for Jet Performance? Tried looking it up, but couldn't find it. IF Jet indeed does sell chips, I think we would all know about it by now.

 

Here is the URL for Jet Performance Products.

http://www.jetchip.com/

I talked to them last in April and they were in the process of testing the TLS, but didn't have enough time with it yet. Their guess was that September of 2001 would be the soonest that they would have something out.

As for the TL, I never inquired on that since I don't own one.

RUF

 

I found one more site that may be of potential interest to you.

http://www.performancespecialist.com/

I don't know anything about them and there for make no claims or recommendations on their behalf.

I trust that if you find out more about them you'll share your experience with us.

RUF

 

Thanks Ruf.

 

You may want to read this:

http://www.acura-cl.com/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=1&t=009248

 

OK, SSman66, i've read the link you provided. And it opens up a whole can of worms. One guy says you can't, one guy says you can. Who to believe?

 

I would be quite skeptical of the claims being made by Jet. Here are the facts:

1. The factory chip can not be reprogrammed.

2. The only way to alter fuel/timing maps in the original ECU is to:
A. Use a piggyback chip with alternate programming.
B. Replace the original chip and program.

Jet claims they are not doing either of the above. They insist they are reprogramming the factory chip (see #1 above).

3. Jet still has not supplied any dyno figures, or evidence of testing.

4. Jet will not offer a refund if there is no performance gain.

 

Those the chip have a backdoor? encrypted? How do you reset the ECU if you can't write?.

 

SSman66, something stinks, and it ain't what I had for dinner!
Sounds like Jet is a scam. When they don't supply dyno figures or
evidence of testing, it just shows they got something to hide. If they are legit, they should come forward with proof. The saying "let the buyer beware" still holds true. But what we really need is some independent testing to see if their claims are true. I wonder if anyone else besides the dude in the link have any experience with Jet chips?

 

"Resetting" the ECU is a misleading term. Using the PGM-FI tester you can clear codes and freeze data, but it does not alter the fuel/timing maps.

Each function of engine control is assigned a minimum and maximum value. Sensors are used to monitor engine performance. The ECU makes adjustments to fuel delivery and timing curve based on feedback from the sensors. Again, this adjustment is within the factory parameters. This allows the ECU to adjust to atmospheric conditions. Jet is claiming to reprogram the ECU with enhanced timing/fuel parameters. This is not possible!

The only models in the Honda/Acura family that have ECU's with the capability to be reprogrammed are the 2001 Civic and RSX.

 

Thanks, but if there is a minimum and maximun settings, can those be change thus gaining performance.

 

Please see my comments above. The factory chip <b>CAN NOT</b> be reprogrammed. Jet claims they are reprogramming the factory chip, which is not possible.

 

Unless the chip (modual) has a flash memory or build in firmware (microcode) the SSMAN66 is right.

However, I would question this whole debate because I sense a certain degree of terminology being tossed around and missused. What I mean is the use of "Chip" "reprogramming" and such. I think that mincing words will not lead us in the resolution of this.

That said, I support the technical position taken by SSMAN66 unless some gets the straight story from Jet. I believe the "reprogramming" Jet claims to be doing would result in a change. The question is will it be a positive one. What they claim to be doing is very much like what a traditional hot rodder does when tuning their car for improved performance. Sort of like adjusting the timing to take advantage of higher octane gas, adjusting the air/fuel ratio, changing out the vacuum secondary springs in a carburator, advancing the dwell and so on.

Unless the factory ECM has the intellegence built in, the factory ECM is designed to meet "standard factory specifications. All this means is that Honda is trying to meet EPA, CART, and other goals. The balance that must be taken to achieve all these means that the engine will not be running at its optimum performance potential. So all people like Jet are trying, or claiming to do is "reprogram" the ECM for better performance. Which could well mean that some aspects of the other goals or requirements are sacrificed. Now whether or not any of these "Chip" tuners can really do what they say is another story.

Bottom line is it is technically possible to modify the ECM or part therein. Remember, I'm not saying they can reprogram a "Chip", but modify the ECM by replacing the factory chip with a chip the burned, or some other form of remapping the logic in the stock ECM.

As for me, before I spend that much money on something like this I would like to have more facts and some documented proof. I'm interested and will check back with Jet, but in the end, no proof no dough from moi.

RUF

 

well put!!!!!

 

Jet claims they plug the ECU into a computer terminal that rewrites the program for timing/fuel maps. The chip that contains these programs is burnt in Japan. Once a chip has been burnt, the map can't be altered.

Like I stated on the CL board, if it is possible to alter the program, why wouldn't Honda/Acura do this for software problems? DTC P0700 indicates a software problem with the ECU, and it must be replaced. What would make Jet more of an authority on this than the company that spent millions of dollars to R&D the ECU and software?

Again, Acura/Honda are moving in the direction of a rewriteable ECU (2001 Civic and 2002 RSX), but the TL and CL do not have the capability.

 

SSman66, you work for Honda? If so, what dept? You seem to know so much about this stuff!

 

So you are assuming that the ECU can't be reprogramed, because of the fact above or do you actually know that you can't reprogram the ECU?

I hope JDL75 could put some input on this.

 

So an V-AFC would be the real answer, right? Though this can't change timing. JET is BS and I got $50 on it!

 

We may never know the whole truth to what what can or can't be done.

Knowing a little about chip technology and programming, anything is possible. But tampering with an ECM and not having the support of Honda will make it very difficult. And if they (Jet) succeeded at making a change I would have to wonder at what costs. Still I'm curious as to what Jet will come out with. And if they do come out with something it will be prudent to have some guarantees and some proof of gains and that nothing vital is scarificied in the process.

We know that other manufacturers such as BMW works in cooperation with DINAN and even offers the DINAN chip as an option through some BMW dealers. I'm also betting that BMW has a different ECM design that makes modification more easily. In the case of GM, some models require a simple chip change. So I've been told.

So on ward with our quest for improving the performance of out "toys".

Oh, and SSMAN66. Please keep that great insight and knowledge you have coming. I'm sure there are others besides me wanting to hear more on what can be done to extract those poor trapped little ponies under our hoods.

RUF

 

Bitium - I don't ever make statements based on assumption. I work for Honda Motor Company, and the statements I made are based on facts.

Patrick - Some of the topics discussed on this board present a conflict of interest with my professional life, so I can't reveal the department I work in. I can tell you that I work in the Technical Service Division, which is comprised of:

Service Communications
Automobile Warranty
Service Marketing
Consumer Affairs
Service Training
Special Tools
Techline
Service Engineering Information
Auto Engineering
Product Development/Special Projects

Just imagine where you think I would find the best fit

Nate - There is certainly a large piece of the story missing. Either the extent of modification is greater than they claim, or their claim of performance gain is BS.

Ruf - I can tell you exactly what can and can't be done with that ECU

 

Point taken


As for department:

Techline!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No way Bitium, SSman66 works in the auto warranty dept!!!
No but seriously, I think he's with Auto Engineering. Only the engineering dept would know what can or can't be done to the ECU. Am I right SSman66??

 

you wish.....we will see who is right.

 

I would say, since he made a list, that what he does is the last in the list. The rest is obviously there only to confuse you.

 

So since it would be a conflict of interest, and if you tell us you would have to shoot us. Right.

In that case, do what you can to get a Honda supported chip and or new and improved ECM for us.

I would rather have it designed from the manufacturer properly than hacked by some outfit that would publish a full disclosure on the pros and cons.

My two cents worth is that there are some legitimate tuners out there. The problem is knowing which ones. With you being a Pontiac guy, sort of, you should know that SLP is a great example of a tuner. So much so that GM took them under their wing.

Anyway, do what you can to help us out, but don't risk your responsibilities in the process.

RUF

 

If you guys want some more info on this, do a search on the CL forum. We have a member that has a friend that works for Hondata. They are supposed to do ECU upgrades for cars. From what I read on the forum, they actually dyno tested the JET Ecu upgrade on the Type S, and found no change. They also mentioned that in order for them to do anything to our cars they need a empty chip. Once that chip is burned you cant do anything to it. There are WAY too many things pointed to Jets direction that they are doing something fraudulent.

Spiro

 

SSMAN66, the OBD-II requirement specifies that engine computer programs be upgradable from the OBD-II port. So the ECU program can only be stored in flash memory, not EPROM. As a result, all cars starting from model year 1997 must be OBD-II compliance to be sold in the US, particularly in California. Why can Honda act differently ?

You also mentioned the ECU programs can be changed by piggy-backing another chip. But how can you make the ECU processor to access the new program instead of the OEM one. Basically, if you piggy-back two program chips, all the pins are connected in parallel. The address bus, power, ground, reset, read, etc., signals are ok. However, when the processor reads the execution codes, both chips receive the same chip select and read signals at the same time. Both chips will then output data onto the data bus at the same time. Data bus collision occurs and the data is completely corrupted. The car will never start, let alone run. The only way to make it work is to disable the OEM chip, and enable the new chip. So piggy back doesn't work.

 

wow.. i'm looking forward to seeing a response to this from SSMan... no sarcasm here

 

Yeah, I second that too

 

EdwardTLS - Honda/Acura vehicles were equipped with OBD II prior to 1997. In 1995 it was introduced on the 2.5 TL, Accord V6, and NSX. It became the standard for ALL Honda and Acura models in 1996.

What OBD II requirement states that must be programmable from the OBD II port? In the US, vehicle emission requirements are governed by the ARB (Air Resources Board) and EPA (Environmental Protection Agency). There is nothing in ARB or EPA regulations that require manufacturers to furnish the ability to program the control unit.

The regulation clearly states that the vehicle must be equipped with:

1. A malfunction indicator light that will illuminate in the event of an emissions-related failure (Honda had been doing this since 1984 - PGM-FI).

2. Memory that will retain a standardized trouble code, with standardized definition (DTC - diagnostic trouble code). Honda/Acura vehicles also retain "freeze data", which provides details about the conditions at failure.

3. A diagnostic port (SCS) through which freeze data can be retrieved (PGM-FI tester). The regulation states this must be a standardized port, located on the left side of the instrument panel.

I think you may be confusing "programming" with the ARB required ability to clear freeze data and DTC's (commonly referred to as "resetting the ECU").

The PGM-FI tester is nothing more than a scan tool with a snapshot mode ("flight recorder").

Everything that I've listed above meets the requirements of both Federal and State legislation in the US.

Your assumptions on not being able to utilize a piggyback chip are also incorrect. What you're asking is quite specific, and that is proprietary information. A very wise, and patient, tuner that has intimate understanding of Acura software/hardware can accomplish this.

 

A piggy-backed chip might not necessarily just be connected in parallel with the original one. It may selectively intercept, alter, or relay the signals going to/coming from the original ECU. Bus contention is then not a real concern. At any rate, there could be a master/slave arrangement going on.

Whether or not the ECU can be reprogrammed of course depends on what kind of Chip it is. An ECU is more than a simple memory element, so it is not a ROM, PROM, EPROM, EEPROM, or RAM for that matter. The ECU is a chip capable of complex logic, and likely containing an embedded processor too. It is then either a custom fabricated chip which cannot be altered in any way, or it is an FPGA (Field programmable gate array) style chip which can be programmed and reprogrammed using a computer by inserting it into a programming socket and using compliant programming software.

Since SSMAN66 says he works for Honda and says that the ECU is the non-programmable kind, I tend to believe him. Therefore, any kind of aftermarket performance chip will have to be specifically designed for our engine application and either interface with the current ECU or replace it entirely.

-Trojan Engineering.

 

EdwardTLS - I'm still awaiting your response

 

Sorry for the late reply. My dial-up connection and Netscape 4.76 at home don't work very well with this forum. So I come in here during at work.

SSMAN66, you are correct about the non-reprogramability of the Honda OEM memory chip. I dug through my old OBD-II documents and found that firmware upgrade is actually an option in the SAE extensions. It is not an OBD-II requirement, but many other car makers have incorporated it into their newer cars.

I'm a small hardware design engineer working in a small company. In my previous job, I designed computer-based engine diagnostic scan tools for North American and import vehicles. I'm always interested in knowing how the same thing can be done differently. So forgive me if I asked too many questions.

In general, an engine computer (let's call it PCM - powertrain control module in Honda's terminology) consists of a fast CPU, RAM, PAL and/or FPGA, high-current drivers, ADC, and most importantly ROM, etc. The complexity of the modern emission requirements rules out the option of using a FPGA with a 32-bit CPU core, in terms of cost. The ROM is where the execution code or program is stored. There is nothing propiatary in the basic hardware. Anyone with some electronic background can open up the PCM and trace out the complete circuitry with enough time. What considered to be propiatary is the PAL program, the FPGA program, and the ROM program. The ROM program contains the delicately balanced timing maps used to unleash the ultimate power from the engine. This is the golden place all aftermarket chip tuners are going after. To make their jobs difficult, some car makers put dummy maps in various locations such that the actual maps' location can not easily be found and tampered with.

I don't see the reason to piggy-back something, wherest the easiest chip update is either to replace the OEM ROM chip or to replace the whole OEM PCM, if reprograming cannot be done. Unless they want to charge an extra ugrade fee for an otherwise trivial task, or they want to protect their chips from illegal distribution. I have seen an chip tuning company incorporating a PAL underneath its chip to scramble the data and address bus. I have also seen a Japanese company using black epoxy to cover up the areas that had been modified.

 

EdwardTLS - You would be correct in referring to the control unit by any of these acronyms:

ECU - Electronic Control Unit
PCM - Powertrain Control Module
ECM - Engine Control Module

Honda has used all 3 of these in reference to the same part. The parts catalog says ECM, the service manual says PCM, and many bulletins say ECU.

Replacing the chip with another that contains enhanced software is optimum, but not always possible. The chip has many more functions that simply controlling fuel/timing maps. The tuner would need all programs for chip replacement. Trying to decode the immobilizer (contained on the same chip) will prove to be a very slippery slope to climb. Since the primary interest is altering the fuel/tming map, many tuners elect to use a piggyback chip.