asiankidd

Does anyone know about this mod and how to do it on our cars? I've done it with the 5th generation preludes before and it basically free hp, was wondering if anyone here has the knowledge of which water hoses leads to the throttle body which is used to heat the air going into the intake on cold days. Its suppose to be a noticable 1-3 hp....doesnt seem like alot but can go along way in trying to get 300+ hp.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Intake and headers will put you over 300hp at the crank. If you figure 35hp from the headers and 5-10 from the Intake (all at the crank), then that puts you over 300hp without re-routing hoses and such....

Bitium

First headers are 32hp at the wheels, you should be around 310 at the crank with those mods. But remember that's only at one point in the whole RPM range.

asiankidd

guys guys guys, my point isnt about getting to 300 hp but it is simply a way to get more out of our engines. Does anyone know anything about a air intake heater than we can somehow bypass like i did on my friends prelude.

Bitium

That I know of only the 99 TL has a air intake heater. Is on the filter box, Either get a CAI or short ram, or just cut the lines and put them together. I don't know how this is going to give you horses.

Closer

I don't know about the TLS. But, in general... in cold weather you'll get
a poor fuel air mixture. I'm sure in our car now, it'll just retard your timing
anyhow. Psychological gains if any.

Bitium

This might help you click here

asiankidd

thanks a bunch guys the link really help, do you know if its the same for the tl-s......the way its suppose to help is that if you remove it the air going into our car will be that much more denser (colder air) and will help alittle in hp increase...i live in So Cal so its never too cold here to ever use it....i rather have it out so i can use the cold air...thanks again

Bitium

NO, the TL type S does not have an intake heater.

Road Rage

AsianKidd:

I am afraid I must disagree with your analysis and recomendation. The water in the throttle body is there to prefent it from icing - not a problem in your area perhaps, but a risky thing to do in Minnesota.

Ad to free HP, I doubt it. The surface area and length of the TB is so small that it will not contribute a bit to the temp of the intake air charge.

Mr Hyde

Yup this is a bad idea, much more so if you have a CAI. The air rushing in there at high speeds is pretty cold as is. If you have a CAI it is even more so. Any condensation in teh iar could now freeze inside the throttle body which is not a good thing. You may get away with it in sunny California or Florida if it is warm all year, but even in NYC that would be a bad idea in the fall/winter. I dont think you'll get 1/10 of a hp from this mod and it can only caue harm, so I wouldnt do it. The air rushes through the TB so fast, how could it get heated significantly enough to compromise HP?

asiankidd

god damn where is the fire extinguisher???? nah i understand most of you guys are in other states but here in so-cal the tepms are kinda on the warm side, and the last thing i want is some stupid thing inside the heat the air.....who said it doesnt heat the air? Well for your information it does thats why it is there no matter how fast the air moves it still gets heated.......the gains have been dyno as increase in 1-3 hp the same as you would find by putting pullys in your car. here is the link of where i learn to do it on a prelude, if anyone cares to look at it it should be able to be done for the tl 's too http://prelude.vtec.net/gen5/ look under free/mods and throttle bypass...here is my back up , now please give me your opinions with facts too.....not just flaming poor lil old me!!!!thanks

Mr Hyde

Because some kid makes a web page you call that your back up? Anyone can start a webpage, that doesnt make something a fact. I checked the site and didnt see any dynos of anything other than stock cars. Since you mentioned this mod, it would have been nice to mention the fact that this mod is NOT for everyone, and the reasons why. Since you didnt other members did and thatis the great thing about this board.

If you read the guys disclaimer even he said he noticed some irregular idle problems.

"You will notice strange idle behavior on cold start if the ambient outside temp is much below 80 degrees or so. I don't think it will damage the motor but the idle will cycle oddly until the motor gets fully warmed up. I found that when the temp dips really low, it may not stop idling strangely at all, as the throttle body never warms up enough to turn off the additional air intake valve that's normally opened for cold start/fast idle"

The above certainly doesnt sound like something Id like other members complaining about if they tried this modification, and we try to keep everyone well informed about all mods pros and cons.
His "Thinking it wont damage the motor" does absolutely nothing for me.

No one was flaming you; a simple difference in opinion is not what constitutes a flame, it requires some degree of hostility, and I certainly didnt see any hostility in any of the posts in this thread until you just posted, and as a newbie, thats not exactly the best way to start out.

asiankidd

wow... i see your point completely...but you see im in so. cal when most of theo problems arent a factor here, they maybe in your area and i might not know about it, but sorrie....also...i did tell everyone that i did it on my friends prelude and it did help on his dyno .......i dont recall ever saying it was from the website...the website is simply there to help people who want to know what im talking about and where im getting my ideas.....also like you said any website can be made so what makes your opinions correct???......simply put.....there is something inside OUR cars that help warm the air in our intakes...in MY CASE i dont want it there and was wondering if anyone in this extremely diverse forum might have done the same thing, and have any knowledge that CAN HELP... i doubt your opinions of saying its bad idea is quite helpful, nor NICE. But either way your opinions are more than welcome...but PLEASE dont come off as being pushy or agressive......just trying to make use of this site thats all.......hope you dont take anything the wrong way

asiankidd

BTW love you car NICE COLOR.....Mr Hyde.....how much you pay for ????was it the navi or non navi?

EricL

Hmmm... Here is some food for though about a different car, but with dynos to prove what they did. Perhaps if someone put in a temp sensor to disable the bypass at a low enough temp -- everyone would be happy (we're talking about heat bypass when warm, and let it do its thing when it is nice and cold out). All said and done, here is something interesting... BTW -- a small bimetal valve would do the trick to allow heating when very cold out.

(The following is from a 1996 Pontiac Trans-Am WS6 site with dynos of every mod. Conventional wisdom fails again...)

Dyno Comparison -- Before And After Bypassing Throttle Body Coolant Hoses:




"Here, the dyno shows a 6.3 horsepower and 7.1 ft/lbs torque difference between having coolant run through the throttle body and bypassing it, with an average gain of 5.6 horsepower and 6.8 ft/lbs torque. I made the first test after driving the car for approximately 15 minutes. I monitored Coolant Temp and Intake Air Temp while making the run. At the beginning of the baseline run, the coolant was at 178F, intake air was at 80F, and the throttle body itself had a surface temperature of 102F. After bypassing, I again brought the car to temperature and repeated the test. This time, the coolant was at 180F, intake air was 80F and the throttle body was at 82F. To make sure the runs were accurate, I set the cruise on the dyno to 70mph in 6th and let the car run for about 6 minutes. After this time, the throttle body had reached 100F. I let the car cool to 185F coolant temp, and 88F intake air temp. Running the car again with these elevated heat readings yielded another .2 horsepower and -.2 ft/lbs torque compared to before heat soaking the engine. Check out the Dynojet Race Routine between the stock vehicle, the stock throttle body coolant routing and bypassing the throttle body coolant"

HERE IS THE LINK --> http://www.ws6.com/mod-8.htm

asiankidd

i dont get it...you say it wont help but isnt the graph show nothing but increase? am i reading the dyno wrong or what?

Mr Hyde

Actually my comments are going to be quite helpful to the majority of the people who dont live in areas where it stays above 70 all year. There are a ton of members here from NY, NJ, VA, and other areas where they get temps way below 70 almost 50% of the year. Plus my statements were mainly concerned with a CAI, something many members here have. This mod + a CAI in NY, NJ or any state other than a select few in any time other than july/august will be bad news. I'll stand by that statement as I have heard about it before. This is certainly not a new mod that someone just invented, and has been around for a long time. It just isnt for the majority of people out there. You asked what people knew about this modification and you are going to get the negatives along with the positives.

As far as who is the one being pushy and aggressive/hostlie, and lashing out at other members. I think you need to reread your own posts. You've been here all of 1 week and have like 16 posts? Thanx for the input, it means alot to me. I've been Moderating forums for years now, both here and before at other places.

As I said before its not a great idea for a newbie to just join a site and the start lashing out at other members who have been there awhile and are well known to everyone, like Road Rage who has been here for a long time and whos comments are always appreciated and valued and will definitely carry alot of weight around here.

asiankidd

ok.....so whats the iniation process??? so what if i am a newbie do you know how long i have been view this site before i register to start posting? maybe not as long as you but doesnt mean your better than all the youger people..... and just because im new doesn mean i cant give valuable information reguarding cars....i do apologize for bringing up a mod that may be usless to everyone, but it isnt for me which is why im asking.....i dont recall lashing at anyone at first. But if that was the case i do apoligize, and im and really thankful for the input

Mr Hyde

You can ask for info on any mod you want. No one is telling you not to ask. If however someone else posts the downside to what you are asking about, or posts reasons why the md may not be the greatest idea for most people, dont start lashing out at them.

Being patronizing and sarcastic to people who have been here, are well known, and for the most part know what they are talking about after you have been here for for a week is not the best way to come off. You are just going to rub people the wrong way. Just keep that in mind, especially if you want their advice and help later on. Thats pretty much the the last I am going to add to this topic on board etiquette.

Closer

Here's the simple math.

intake mod (removing the heating) 1-3 hp.
fancy spark plugs and wires 1-3 hp.
remove cat and exhaust 1-4 hp.

all these silly mods together might net 10 hp and probably cause some irritations.

for no speed benefit at all. Take it to a track. You'll notice at MOST .1 second. Even then... you don't have the consistancy to prove it. It's not racing. it's what I call a worthless mod.

This is just my honest oppinion. do what you like...
no flame.

EricL

No, perhaps I wasn't clear... I'll try again...


The dyno shows a gain -- YES (with the "bypass" mod).

However, I'm quite sure it WAS NOT 10 degrees F (ambient temp) when they did the dyno.

The "idea" that I was presenting (if someone is so inclined) was this:

The TB radiator heating is a "good" thing to have when outside (ambient) temps. are very low -- as others pointed out, you don't want to freeze up the throttle, etc...

If someone wanted to "make" an all-season version of the "MOD", they could utilize a small temp. sensitive "valve" to allow the warm coolant to heat the throttle body (etc) when it got too cold out. (OR heck, why not just put in switch to control flow...)

Finally, Closer has a point -- you are probably looking at modest gains depending on a lot of different factors...

asiankidd

very true the gains are very minimal, but realistically adding an intake and exhausts is the same field of gain but it cost money the reason i thought to do this was because it is free....and come-on who can complain to free stuff? just a thought

EricL

Well, I see your in California -- as long as you stay out of winter areas (like the mountains and high deserts) with really low temps, you could certainly try it...

You just might get a nasty surprise if you like skiing in very cold weather -- that's all I'm saying...

Road Rage

Hyde, you took the words out of my mouth.

And one other point - dyno runs back to back with the same car can provide the results that were posted. As an engineer I do not believe that a flow of air already heated across a few square inches of a heated aluminum surface will do squat for power, and certainly not survive a benefit/risk analysis.

Asiankidd, calm down - you will find there are people hear who will help you with questions down the road if you respect them and abide by the unwritten rules of engagement (politeness).

A respectful, well-stated disagreement is not a flame - if you believe it is, you may end up selling Amsoil (that's an inside joke to some of the Oldbies).

Keep posting, but try coating before you pop off.

asiankidd

if i did lash out at you i really didnt mean it, please dont take it the wrong way....especially you MR. Hyde...i meant no disrespect...for your opinions are very useful and appreciated to me and everyone else...but thanks for all your time and input...te dyno graph was really good thanks...lets continue with happy postings ....

Guest

No offense but a 1-3 hp difference on two separate dyno runs is not really statistically significant. It's well within the margin or error on those. If you're looking for 'a' horsepower, you'd be better off cleaning out your trunk and whatever else isn't bolted down to free up weight.

eric