PmpLuxCEO

Was washing my car yesterday, and I noticed the ability of the car to get remarkably dirty inside the door jams, trunk lid, under the hood. ( I had a layer of red dirt on the engine cover ) Which led me to inspect the quality of my car and here's what I found that kinda irked me. I drive on the freeway in Hawaii, which is pretty unconjested. All the roads i drive on are paved.

1) spot welds throughout
2) that plasticy material that bonds the frame together. Once dirt gets in there, you have to scrub it out =( And it either discolors the plastic stuff, or it just doesn't come out.
3) seal on my front windshield is not proper on the top right corner.
4) trunk shuts like a cavalier. . feels so cheap
5) The buttons for the sunroof. . WTH?
6) The front closes by slamming down the hood. I hate that.
7) My paint is chipped in several places on the front already.

I know acura cut corners to keep the cost of this car down, but it kinda bothers me that they didn't improve on the quality over the years. Don't wanna dog on the americans, but my 97 RL was made in Japan, and didn't have any of the dirty problems that I am having with this car.

Anybody else notice this or do I just happen to have a TL-S that just won't seal up well?

TL4Mo

Unfortunately it's not just your imagination....although ever getting Acura to admit to it is impossible. Although the paint durability SUCKS, Acura reps maintain that the 3 process paint job is thicker and better than others like Lexus. Can anyone say bullcrap?

I hate how the trunk closes too....does sound like a cheap car, when comparing it to our previous Infiniti....that thing sounded solid whenever any door was closed.

U2SLOW

I've had my 2002 TL-S for 6 mos now (5000 miles) - I am ready to trade it.
Audi A6 2.7T or Lexus GS300 sounds soooooo good righ now.

My sunroof, dashboard and rear shelf (where the woofer is) are rattling. My seat is clicking all the time. When I go over a bump, my car flexes so much and windows rattle. Tires suck and don't stick at all. Paint is an issue I can't even discuss without hitting something. My air bag on the steering wheel is not centered. Fake wood is starting to come loose on the center console.
Car is leaning so much in corners, it's like driving a boat. Folding rear seats are, wait, what folding seats? I am yet to see my gas mileage in 20s. Tranny is sluggish and hesitant in gears 1-3.
ON TOP OF ALL THIS ****, 2003 WILL BE COMPLETELY NEW AND REDISGNED, MAKING MY CAR WORTH $25,000.
Sorry, had to vent somewhere. How can I tell my wife that $33,000 I spent were a waste.

TL4Mo

It is extremely disappointing and a very EXPENSIVE lesson. Acura, what happened? All the relatives and friends of myne that owned older Acuras had a top-quality vehicle.....looks like they cheapened their quality for the sake of more profit. Acura loses, because their repeat customer percentages will drasticly drop. After this, we are going to another car maker...unless the new TLs or RLs improve their quality.

Madenning! Anyone from Acura, who gives a darn, listening?

Caprirooster

U2SLOW

Basically, you want japanese quality, make sure it's made in Japan.
Our union workers do not seem to care to much about quality.

hemants

Be careful trading in for "German quality". Sure you'll get a solid trunk thud and probably fewer rattles but you'll also get your share of "harmless" electrical and mechanical problems that will cost you through the nose to fix because parts and labour are so expensive.

When you put it in $$$ terms, the TL-S is still probably the cheapest performance car in it's class to maintain over the long haul.

Also, while Lexus quality is outstanding, it doesn't necessarily hold true of the GS series cars which seem not have as good a record.

1000bpm

The TLS may be just about the best value for money out there, but its quality leaves much to be desired. Consider my case :

1) Front driver door not flush with the body panel (grossly misaligned)
2) Uneven tail pipes
3) O2 sensor had to be replaced
4) Plastic decals on the sunroof buttons started peeling off
5) Rubber seals on the doors started slipping off
6) Motor in the passenger side seat stopped working
7) Sunroof squeak
8) Subwoofer squeak
9) Seat squeak
10) Rattles everywhere
11) NO PEACE OF MIND

I will say this …. who your dealer is makes all the difference. I relocated to St. Louis for 5 months last year and used to take my car to Frank Leta Acura. The service there was outstanding. Absolutely phenomenal. Made the entire ordeal a little more bearable. They were able to fix everything EXCEPT for the rattles and squeaks which I suspect will never go away. I initially overlooked the rattles and squeaks because of the pure driving enjoyment this car gave me. But eventually it drove me nuts. It’s a shame really … such a great powertrain/suspension negated by poor QC. If Lexus and Infiniti can make rattle free cars so can Acura.

Hope Acura gets its act together soon.

Guest

My 2000 323ci rattles, flexs and has irritating noises coming from the sunroof and rear seat. I hate it and was thinking that the TLS may be a good replacement! Reliable-Acura etc. Interesting to note that TLS has many of the same issues.

PS-the Audis rattle alot too! Like any BMW-when showroom new-rattle free, then the noises start within 2000 miles.

BLEXV6

For crying out loud, here we go again, with all the whinners complaining about the quality of the car. Mine is great so far, as has been my Accord that was built @ the same plant. All you ever here from, is unhappy owners.

I am totally pleased with mine THANKS.

PmpLuxCEO

Just telling it how it is. If you just look at how the car is built compared to lessee. . the first gen TLs, you will notice that it just doesn't compare. I definitely noticed the difference in just the feel of the car. If your car doesn't have the shakes and rattles and creaks, that's great for you, it's still a poorly made car. If your paint doesn't chip as easily as others, consider yourself lucky. my RL didn't have a single paint chip on it, and I drive on the exact same roads. My TL-S creaks whenever I come out of a driveway. I have to admit that the drivetrain is great, but damn, I would pay the extra money to have the car made well.

It's like saying that your TEAC receiver runs ur home stereo very well. so what? It's still a piece of crap because it's poorly made with cheap components.

1000bpm

BLEXV6

Not unhappy. I love my TLS ... but I will admit its a love-hate relationship at times. I had an '02 TL before I traded it in for my TLS and that rattled like crazy too. I'm willing to overlook rattles and squeaks, but unfortunately those are not the only problems I've had with this car. In any case, a car that costs $30K plus should not be rattling this much.

Oh yeah .. and the topic of this thread was "Build Quality Opinions". My opinions are based on my ownership expereinces with an '02 TL, '02 TLS, riding in my friends' TL's and numerous test drives at various dealers.

If you havent had any trouble with your TL then good for you buddy, but theres no need to be such a jerk. most of the posts in here are by owners talking about their legitimate experiences.

BLEXV6

Oops, didn't mean to be a jerk. I guess I have been lucky. I consider myself, quite anal, regarding quality. I have had 6 Hondas, all of which have been great. However I have always considered Toyota/Lexus when buying my cars. I could never justify paying the extra for the aforementioned. The Toyotas/Lexus always seemed slightly better in quality. I assume if you really wanted th Lexus you would have got it. But you chose the Acura, twice. Why? Probably its just something about the Acura that gives you that Drivers feel. Lexus, unless you get a SC430, they are not that sporty. I think the build quality is quite good on both my vehicle.

I did not mean to offend, I was just trying to see if anyone felt the quality of the car was good.

I apologise.

Mario

Stay away from Audis as well. I owned a 99 A6 and I had so many problems with the car, so I finally turned in my lease early. My wife's 00 3 series have been trouble free though, fingers crossed.

Here are the problems with my TL-S:
1. Passenger door's front edge was scratching the front fender (bad door alignment which the dealer fixed. I've NEVER had this problem before.)
2. Rattles from the back seat area (this is actually a very common problem with cars, so it's not a big deal to me)
3. Headlight went out (poor grounding)
4. Engine rattles under medium acceleration from stop
5. Car handles poorly (not a quality issue, handling is just not very good, though most people wouldn't notice)
6. Cracked foglight (dealer won't replace under warranty, this is another first for me, shouldn't fog lights be crack resistant)
7. Sound system is lame (what bass?)

Despite all this, the acceleration and features on this car sometimes make me forget about these annoyances. Not sure if this is a car I would keep for a long time though.

U2SLOW

What's driving me insane is that I have wasted 4 years of research and $33,000 and this is what I'm stuck with. I REFUSE TO JUST KEEP TURNING UP THE VOLUME ON MY RADIO. 1) radio isn't that good either, 2) that won't fix anything.
At least my wife has her perfect little Infiniti that is rattle free @ 26K miles, and she treats it like ****.
Maybe if we all send a letter to Acura on a certain date, it'll get somebody's attention.

jkozlow3

Great idea!! I love it!!

yahtzee

I would be pissed as well if I had wasted 4 years of "research".....Especially, when you could have checked the whining section of this board and maybe spent about 15 minutes to find out that our car has just as many "complaints" as any other.



What the hell did you do for four years to research a friggin car? I wouldn't do anymore research if this is what it gets you. Have you considered test drives?

Ruski

you guys are scaring me, a relatively new TL-S driver.

I used to lease a Chrysler 300M and despite everyone's prediction it turned out to be a great car. Did I make a mistake by switching to TL-S?

yahtzee

Hell no.

DuckBlue

wow, i thought mine was just a fluke that my front passenger power seat stopped working just last week.. didnt know others had the same experience.. when i took it in, they had the motor replaced

unfortunately, when i got the car back, my one touch driver window stopped working.. i guess i'll have to take it back in again

Crzy Acura

11k miles on my car and i just LOVE her! Used to have one rattle but it went away on its own. Love the car, and for 31k its the best car in its class IMO. Oh if you guys think other cars dont have little problems then go check out other forums. Audi has problems as well.

PAW

Has any one heard if the build quality of the Accord has slipped also? Since they are built in the same Ohio plant.

1000bpm

Hey BLEXV6,

Its cool ... no offence taken. Btw I had an ES 300 before the TL .... TOO BORING. STERILE!! Didn't have a single problem with it though, in the 3 years that I owned it. Not a single rattle. But ultimately the ES 300 didn't engage me the way a TL/TLS did. And for ME that was a bigger shortcoming than rattles/squeaks and fit/finish issues. Now the GS 430 ... that's a different story. Would love to own one, just can't afford it. As for german cars, yeah the 3 series, 5 series, S4 are all great cars for the driving enthusiast ... but then there are the reliability issues. Common sense tells me to steer clear ;-)

I think a lot if us take our TLS'es for granted. All it takes is a 5 minute ride in an ES 300 to realize how good we have it in terms of power, steering feel, and handling.

Ajay_RENAMED

This car is too cheap, it really should have been priced around 35k so that they wouldnt have had to skimp on some quality issues. I leased the car for 3 years, I got it in July 2001 and if i could i would get rid of it tomorrow. If the car rattles and flexes this much now i can only imagine how its going to be at 30k. Maybe ill get lucky and someone will steal it.

Guest

EVERY car has some issues, even a $120k SL600 (maybe even moreso than a TL/TLs), it is up to the individual to decide whether they are going to stay on the dealer's a$$ or just live with it. If you live with it, you have no one to blame but yourself. Remember, any car built doesn't come out of the factory with a few "expected" problems, they are supposed to be 100 % trouble-free for the entire warranty period, if not, make them fix it. If you get sick of constantly bringing it in, sell it and get something else.

Guest

I agree with 1000bpm, you really can't have everything in a car for such a low price, something must be given up to some extent, in this case Acura had to set it's sights lower in overall quality, every review you read will state this upfront, but the sticker more than makes up for any minor issues. I don't know what would happen if they moved the price up to $35k or above, you may get those that were concerned with past quality balking, while first time owners (knowing the old price) would want to see where the difference is before purchasing. Paying more doesn't always guarentee you better quality, maybe more features and sometimes faster car, but again you could still see these problems, but only now you paid $60k to get aggravated.

1SICKLEX

For the record the IS is one of the sportiest sport sedans PERIOD and the GS and SC are eqally sporty.

A magazine said it best, for 27-30k the Tl is an outstanding buy, if it was 35k it would merely be okay (and sell just as swift as the previous model).

Mario

Dude, what's this have to do with the topic? BTW, the SC is beautiful!

Edward'TLS

Think about this. If Acura spent more manufacturing cost in building a better-than-now quality TL/TL-S and jacking the selling price of each car for a few thousand bucks more, would you still buy the car ? I honestly think many won't. One of the reasons why the TL has become the sales leader in its class is its value (price/features and price/performance factors). There is a delicate balance between cost and quality.

TL4Mo

I certainly understand the point about using higher-quality materials driving the price up. That's not what I'm personally upset with (that makes sense). But when I have a poor quality of workmanship...that makes me upset. Are you saying that the assembly line folk get paid more if they do a better job...thus to keep prices down...the guidelines of quality were lower?

gohawks63

I agree! And then you get the apples to oranges comparison:

I'm trading it for and AUDI 2.6 or a GS430. Yeah you could and spend $10K to $20K more.

I agree it seems as though the TL has a few more squeaks, but I'm attributing it to the improvements in sound deadening (sp?) that allow you to hear this little stuff. Sure BMW, Mercedes, et al might have quieter interiors, but your paying more for it!

I had the rotor warping and windshield smearing problem along with a few squeaks. Dealer fixed it all! 9K miles later I love my car more than I did the day I bought it!

I'm sorry if I'm coming across a little strong, but it seems ridiculous when people compare their cars to others that cost $10 - $20K dollars more.

Geez, I guess I could say that Acura sucks 'cause my car isn't as fast as a Ferrari or as quiet as a Rolls Royce.

U2SLOW

I don't think anybody is comparing our TL w/ more expensive cars.
What people are saying is that now they are more willing to spend $5k-$10k extra to get into a better car. The only thing Acura did good on our cars is the engine. But no matter how good that engine is, who'd pay $30k++ to get it.

MikesTypeS

Just my two cents.... My car rattled in the back headliner area a couple of days after I bought it, and when I took it to the dealer, of course, the car didn't make the noise anymore. But, the tech. told me that it was a common problem and it would take 2 days to fix I lowered the car about 2 months ago and it really rattles now... Do any of you guys know if I can take it in under the warranty without them saying that the noises are the result of lowering the car. I was wondering is my car the only one with this sticky substance on all of the door jams. It seems like whoever job it was to put it on put way too much and it is a ***** to take off. Its worse than tar or gum. One more point my mom's 1998 camary V6 with 40,000+ miles doesn't even have one rattle.

thejavagod

I don't understand it... the cheaper Accord has a much much better finish???

TL4Mo

Regardiing the letter on the same date....doubt it will make Acura do the right thing or jump to action....but sure am willing to write my own letter and compile it with others!

Just tell us when.

gohawks63

I hear you, but someone who say bought a Cavalier Z24 or an Impala could make the same argument. They could go around saying, "my car is such a POS it constantly (fill in the blank here), for $10K or $15K more I could of bought a TL". Most of us would laugh at him or her for even putting the two cars in the same class.

What I'm trying to say is that a TL is not in the same class as a Lexus GS or an Audi A6 so it's ridiculous to compare the build quality between the two.

I guess you can look at it another way. Before the '99 TL came out, most people ( I say most not all) who were driving BMWs and Audis wouldn't even consider an Acura TL. The fact that some even consider comparing the two is more credit to the car.

Just my .02 cents.

Road Rage

The first poster introduced the thread as build quality, but all his gripes were design issues, not build - there is a difference.

A TL-S built to finicky standards of some of you would cost $55,00 AND BE CALLED A LEXUS. 'Course, when you visit that Forum you will see the same gripes ("My vanity mirror bulbs are not blue enough"). Jeesh.

I have had 3 TL's, and only have had to go back to the dealer for a build defect one time over a 4-year period, other than the stupid seat belt buckles. Lucky? or Typical? I have owned over 55 cars in my life, 30 bought new, and cannot say the same for any three year stretch of ownership.

A 260 HP mid-size car with SOTA engine refinment and full options for $31k - cut the car a bit of slack, for cryin' out loud. Some of you guys are starting to sound like Nancies.

city001

this is what happens when it's made in USA...build quality is not as good as MADE IN JAPAN....

that's why my dad prefer cars made and assembled in Japan...must more detailed..

city

Crzy Acura

I would agree with you.... BUT our tranny is made in Japan.

Edward'TLS

Labour cost is not a issue here. Robots and machines are extensively used nowadays. But if the production line speed can be tuned slower, the painting process or baking process or panel alignment process can be improved = better workmanship. But all this means lower overall output and thus high cost per car.