PmpLuxCEO

yes, here i am, the guy that started this whole mess.. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one with gripes concerning the way this car was built. Well, as of now the TL-S is on the market to be sold. I am gonna either get an older lexus SC300 with the manual gearbox, and attempt a supra TT engine drop. OR. . . just drive my old school porsche and save up for a place of my own. hope everybody else gets what they want. If you keep the car, make sure to upgrade ur brakelines, and soften the suspension.

Can't say i didn't like this car, performance-wise. . Just wished the car was built better.

PEACE

Guest

That you guys have the same problems we have. I am not mentioning my car because of constant battles but it seem to be that newer age cars are getter worse and worse in quality, regardless of manufacturer.

When you spent xxx K dollars on a car you wish you had the best but its beginning to show that xxx K dollars is not enough. No matter the manufacturer/model/country, the complaints seem to be the same. All seem to point to cost cutting crappy quality. Paint seems to be at the top of the list (thanks government regulation!)

I hope these car manufacturers will realize that it is this kind of crap that we are tired of seeing!

Good luck to all in getting your issues fixed under warranty with little hassle and keep it shiny side up!

TL4Mo

Just wanted to let you guys know, I discussed the whole EPA paint issue with a nephew who works at a paint & body shop. My nephew was totally unaware of this new regulation with the paint (they use PPG)...which may not mean anything. But my nephew, and another friend who is experienced at paint & body, stated that water-based vs. lead based should not really make a difference, if a proper process is followed AND enough clear coat is used. I think he mentioned that if a merely 1-stage process was used, yes we can expect to have chips down to the metal. So, my "common sense" sounds on target.

Any one else?

Guest

I have made my dissappointments know on this forum. I'm new to this forum and have had my car for almost 2.5 years and everyone is echoing my problems. I to thought that I just had a bad car but it appears that a larger population experiences the same problems.

The users of this site that attack us for expressing our problems need to understand that we spent a good deal of money on essential an Accord hoping to get the famed reliablilty and perfection that Honda is known for. We didn't get it. I thought that maybe it was because it was built in the USA but one of our biggest problems is the tranny which is built in Japan so I'm not sure thats the problem. Just because you have not had any problems or don't mind the body flex or other issues that all TL's and TLS's experience, be patient because you just might.

Shane

TL4Mo

Well said Hammerton, this is my wife's and my first HONDA product. We've both owned Toyotas and Nissan's (even 1 VW) before this. Due to the Honda reputation (and relatives owning both Honda & Acura) our expectations of quality are high...and have not been fully met

Sad to say, this is the most we've spent on a car and haven't been TOTALLY satisfied.

Mr Hyde

Other than the tranny issue most of the complaints on this site have related to rattles and poor paint (chiping/swirls).

The TL-S apparently has its share of rattles although in my case all I have had was the squeeky moonroof and driver seat buckle, one fixed hastle free by the dealer during a routine service stop, and the other by me with some WD-40 in the summer which has never returned since. While I can understand being upset over a rattle if you think other cars arent affected by similar problems read up on other boards as well you'd be surprised.

My Volvo S70 which new cost much more than my TL-S rattles much much worse in the dash, and from the door panels. Its also had switches and door locks go out on me, doesnt mean I dont think its a great high quality car, I do. Same for some BMW's I have ridden in both 3 ad 5 series. Higher cost doesnt always mean these problems wont occur just that they now occured after having spent more as Ted stated. Those cars can flex and jar things loose just like any other.

As far as the paint issue goes, sorry guys but go join any automotive detaling forum or ask any detailer the paints today are much softer than they were years ago. All makes have been affected. Take a look at any Black Late model Mercedes on a sunny day. Unless owned by a fanatic its probably swirl city; I see them everyday. The older paint jobs were much tougher and stronger despite advances in technique and application. Same for Honda/Acura. The paint is not as strong as it once was and using Black paint jobs as a reference those differences are easliy seen.

The EPA regulation changes are very well known, but theres a big difference between a regular bodyshop dealing in isurance accident repair and a detailer or body shop that deals in restorations and customizations as far as long term care and upkeep of paint is concerned.

In any case, I dont really equate the paint complaints(which I think are misguided) on this board or the rattle complaints as reliablity issues that really concern me.

The tranny issue is one I am concerned about, but the same complaints about the Accord V-6 arose when it was introduced. Being on a message boad it seemed like most cars had the problem which in actuality it was only a very small percentage. That doesnt comfort those that have been affected, but that was the bottom line, and that car is all over the roads today, but I dont hear anything about its tranny issues anymore and I ahev never heard anything about it from any major source as a problem with Accords in reliability reviews which I hope is what happens here. We shall see.

Guest

!. Tranny
2. Warping Rotors (Acura admits this one)
3. Rattles
4. Paint
5. Body Flex (probably eventually causing the rattles)
6. Acura's severe arrogance about the issues we are mentioning
7. A large number of individual problems!

More that just tranny problems, I even had to have my Rack & Pinion replaced even though I haven't heard of any other problems. If you have read my other posts I have had a large variety of cars including True Luxury and Cheap Econoboxes. Overall I am just dissappointed with the car and more importantly Acura.

Shane

fla-tls

Some of you may remember the overall quality of cars in the mid-1980's (remember the K car?). The mid '80s cars overall were hunks of junk. Car manufacturers cut costs to the point where their cars were absolute craaap. It was honda that stepped in and started raising the bar in the late 80's with the Accord.

I think that much of it was related to the fact that we had such a bad recession in the early 80's - interest rates were extremely high, and people weren't buying. Executives did whatever they had to to keep the companies running. Quality was job 3,123,513!

Well, now we're in a recession again... I hope this cost-cutting-to-the-bone thing doesn't occur again! It's a hard trend to get out of. One thing's for sure, if quality does go down even more in the years ahead - I'm keeping my 2002 TL-S!

Guest

Oh Yeah! I remember that Chrysler Crap! I hope it never gets that bad again. Although I think Ford is going in that direction. They are spiralling out of control. The economy and Chevy really put a hurtin' on them last year.

Shane

tea elle

The car flexes????????? WTF does that mean? You're telling us that you don't like the way the car handles bumps, curves, dips, and swirves? Dude, you're a freak! Maybe you're just driving too damn hard.

Me, I love my car. Other than my sunroof squeaking (which is an easy fix) I don't have any problems with noises. I love the way the car feels, corners, accelerates, sounds and looks. I'm thinking about getting a stickier set of tires, but other than that I like what Acura came up with in the Type S.

Every car has problems, some more than others. Its a crap shoot. I may be one of the luckier ones, who knows. My Legends were both great cars, but my '91 had a squeaky passenger seat. My '94 Legend Coupe was an absolute dream machine. My '01 TL had a squeaky seat too.

1SICKLEX

I think a lot of this ranting and raving is perception. Most people have NO IDEA their TL is built in Ohio and shares parts with the Accord. They see ACURA and no matter the price, expect the LUXURY owning experience. So when ANY LITTLE thing goes wrong the ACURA 4x8 badge screams at the owner like WTF? The owner is pissed cause he/she is saying to themself "wait this is an Acura" what is going on?

This same owner could own a Accord or Camry and have these SAME problems and may nag but not as much simply because it is a Honda or Toyota. They'll say to themselves "when I buy that luxury car" this won't happen and that is why they cost so much....

This really ain't an Acura thing, it's a perception thing. It could be any car manufacterer. It's just I have never seen so many people ***** about a Honda before.

daverman

1sicklex, perhaps the expectation of luxury is prompted by Honda's adoption of the Acura brand to set these cars apart from the "economy" Hondas. Am I wrong to expect higher quality from a car that is marketed as such? I'd expect my ES300 to have better quality than a Camry because Lexus sells it that way.

It's not perception, it's expectation. I don't expect a Corolla to be whisper-quiet, so when it rattles I don't care. But I do expect a car sold as a luxury model to be just that, and when it rattles, it annoys me.

1SICKLEX

daverman I somewhat agree with you. Expectation is very important. But to the unknowledable customer it is perception. Hell there are some people who have no idea the ES 300 is a hooked up Camry. Marketing is key, I am glad you brought it up. Marketing is ALL ABOUT PERCEPTION.

Hmm I think we are both on track here. I say we perceive these cars to be luxury cars, you then add we expect them to perform like luxury cars and when things go bad OH CRAP!!!

BTW I know all about perception and expectation, my first Lex was an ES 300 (which was so flawless it basically sold Lexus to my whole family).

1SICKLEX

BTW this is nuts, at the CL board, the top dog there is complaining about some of the same crap. B!itching Acura owners.
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...5&pagenumber=1

Guest

I actually did not buy the car because of the Acura name but the options and the fact that it was a Honda. I have not owned a v6 accord so I cannot say if their cars are having as many problems as ours but this is a quality issue not a name brand issue. Besides the TL is not a true luxury car and I did not buy it with those expectations. As a matter of fact a fully loaded camry is about the same as an Acura TL.

Shane

gohawks63

You have every right to expect a quality car, but nothing is perfect. Hell even Lexus claims "Pursuing Perfection" (previously "The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection").

With the exception of the tranny failures, most of the stuff I read here is minor stuff that should be quickly resolved, but people expecting a perfect car will never be happy.

1SICKLEX

This reminds me of the dumb newbie questions we get weekly at Clublexus and boy do those newbies get it!

Guest

Everyone hear needs to understand those of us having problems and in my case not minor ones as I have said before feel like Acura isn't doing enough to improve on design flaws that apparently have existed since the 99TL. It is not coincidence that this many people would complain about a car they should be proud of.

Those not having problems are pissed off about negative things being said about their car. Trust us, a large percentage of you will see the light as you put more miles on your car. What's amazing is that the problems we are echoing are exactly the same. Many of us have had the common problems plus others, I myself also had the car in three times for steering problems and they finally replaced the Rack&Pinion with a remanufactured one. Acura absolutely sucks as a company, if it wasn't for my dealer they would not have fixed my brakes. the first time I brought it in. We are pissed because we feel like we are not getting the famed 'ship it, it's a Honda' QC. It has nothing to do with being an Acura name. It's an Accord for God's sake make it reliable like one.

Shane

gohawks63

Sounds like it's more an issue with the dealers not addressing your problems. I've dealt with three dealers over my Acura ownership (This is my second Acura, previously had a '93 Vigor) and I have never had a problem with a dealer addressing a problem. NEVER!

In my dad's case, he had a '92 Vigor where the display on the radio went out. It had been more than a year out of warranty. I guess there was a bulletin on this, but since it was out of warranty the dealer could have told him Sorry, it'll cost you. Anyway, I called my dealer to ask how much it would cost to get it fixed, the service manager told me that he was "going to look into something" and asked me to call him back in a few days. When I did, he told me that he had gotten the OK to replace the radio for FREE! Well almost, we would just have to pay $60 for the removal of the old unit and installtion of the new one. The car wasn't even purchased from them!

Turns out that they couldn't get another radio, but they paid to have the old one fixed. That's customer service! That service manager has moved to another Acura dealer and now I have followed him (Barry Kogos of Arlington Acura).

Gotta find a dealer who'll take care of you.

Guest

Actually my dealer has been awesome. Always a loaner even if they took the car for 2 hours. I just hate the fact that I have to take it in every several thousand miles for something new or reoccuring. BTW when I brought it in for the steering the first two times they couldn't find anything wrong, they did finally confirm a problem a third time. Every time I brought it in I had several problems and they did their best to fix the problem. Brakes for example, they would turn the rotors and replace the pads. I and they knew I would be back. They knew there was a problem with the TL brakes but nobody knew how to make it stop. Acura, the corp, was contacted on several occasions with absolutely no help and said there was nothing they would do. At least my dealer tried replacing everything.

Shane

Edward'TLS

If the quality of the Acura brand is not better than the "economy" Honda's, the level of features and performance will certainly be, particularly the exclusively-tuned powerplants which are not shared with the other Honda's.

U2SLOW

You know, I'm getting fuc*ing tired of people like Tea Elle leashing out on everyone for no fuc*ing reason. What the hell are you $hitting about? Just because you like the way your car drives, corners, and sounds, doesn’t mean that everyone does. AJay has a right to voice his opinion and dissatisfaction without your sorry a$$ screaming at him.
I wonder why so many owners are buying aftermarket sways, CAIs, springs, tires and exhausts if their cars drive, corner and sound perfectly.
If you like your car then let us know, but stop YELLING at others.

1SICKLEX

Well I may sound like a D!ck a bunch of times but I wish ya'll luck. Seriously my first supercar will probably be a Acura NSX because of the RELIABILITY issue. I have no time for the 911 to be in the dealer or the patience etc etc. Dahm shame really, honestly if the TL's quality were usual Honda, who the hell WOULD NOT buy the car.

Guest

Ironically, Sick, the 911 gets very high reliability marks, I couldn't believe that when I read it myself, I figured that thing would always be in the shop, but evidentally alot of the mags and quality companies (JD, Consumer, etc.) give it high praise, something I never expected. I also think a rather large percentage of people that have purchased a TL/TLs are first-time luxury (or entry lux, whatever) car buyers and have unjustly set their hopes ridiculously high, i.e. that luxury is luxury, whether $30k or $130k. So they compare their last vehicle (usually costing less) to the new one and not only expect, but demand perfection. And those that already own high priced vehicles and are simply adding a TL/TLs simply shrug off any issues, assuming that you come to expect this in a "lower priced" vehicle. I've had small issues with my car, I just presented them to my dealer to fix them, since that's what a warranty is there for. My advice is: if you feel that you have thoroughly exhausted every possible option to get your problem fixed, then and only then go online and ask for advice, don't just b!tch about it for no reason, no one is forcing you to keep it.

tea elle

U2SLOW, the tone and content of your posts speaks for itself. I've read four or five of your comments on this thread alone, and as a newbie your really off to a bad start. If you don't like my posts, too bad. Tell you what though, I will be watching YOU. So when you say ignorant things like the following, I'm going to make every effort to point them out. Here are a couple of examples of your comments:

1. I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say I'm "leashing out on everyone". Typos are one thing, but you are butchering the English language. Did you mean to say "lashing out"? A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

2. You proudly talk about the three years of research you did before buying this car, but six months later you want to sell your car because you hate it. Thats a sad admission of the failure of all your research.

I've been part of this website for a year now, and for the most part I enjoy learning about the TL and sharing my experiences with others. I also feel satisfaction in helping people get the best deal possible on their TLs.

The flipside is sometimes I read posts that compel me to reply with a contrary view. Sometimes people like what I say and sometimes they don't, but for the most part this site is entertaining. You, however, I do not find very entertaining. I will be reading your posts, quoting them and commenting on them as often as I see fit. Deal with it.

1SICKLEX

Dahm, for real TedC, cause I really really like that 911. I figure prices will drop cause of the 2002 updates. Okay then 911 vs NSX what would you do (not a 4s or anything, just a plain jane Carerra)....

BTW my buds CL-S's got his cd stuck in the car, he just told me. he has to take it to the dealer to get fixed.......

Guest

Well, Motor Trend just butchered the NSX, saying that it was getting outdated (no real cosmetic change in a decade), overpriced (when compared to the Vette and 911) and very cold sales reception (10 a month tops), but I like the look of the NSX better.

U2SLOW

Tea Elle,

and I thougt you were a freak.
You said the tone and content of my post speaks for itself. You also mentioned that you'll be watching me from now on. I guess you've been watching too hard to realize that I have replied to your post w/ same tone that you have replied to Adjay's.
I have been a member only 6 mos shorter than you, so don't give me that "newbie" $hit. I apologize for not posting all the time to become an honorable "freak," like yourself.
If you have been reading my posts, you should have asked why you are the only member I actually singled out in them.
I trully do appologize for butchering the English language. However, you shouldn't really make fun of somebody with broken English, that means they speak another language (3, in my case).
I obviously read your post, and know exhactly what you mean, but I am hoping that you will read it too - your first paragraph says a lot about you.

Guest

What happened to this post, we started slamming other manufactures, other members. This was a post to see if what the general concensus was on the build quality of our Acura's. Let it be just that. By knowing what are and are not issues we can better converse with our dealers about our problems. Please, I am not targeting anyone with this post only asking that we be allowed to share our issues without an onslaught of a few individuals that have not had any problems with their TL's.

Shane

Mr Hyde

Thats enough you two. Relax and lay off the personal stuff. Time for you both to take a "Time Out"

U2SLOW

-Hyde

Mr Hyde

Knock it off U2Slow, or are you too slow (pun intended) to understand.

Conversations should be taken to PM and email. Take the personal attacks and insults elsewhere. This isn't up for debate!!

daverman

This is what I call the "B!tching Board Syndrome". In a consumer's forum such as this one, you will invariably find a huge number of dissatisfied people complaining about their items. The reason is simple: lots of people visit forums only when they're desparate to complain and seek help about their problems. The people who have no problems aren't on the forums, they're out there enjoying their purchase.

So believe me when I say that there are a lot more satisfied TL owners driving around right now than dissatisfied ones.

jpeart0

I purchased a 02 tl-s in Nov 2001. It has been absolutely a dream come true. No problems what so ever so far. Some of these posts have me wondering if this car is going to loosen up. I only have 2000 miles on it. It is a pleasure to drive so far.

U2SLOW

I guess w/ YTD sales of 155,000+ for TL only, that's mostly true.
Unfortunately, there's still a great number of internet illiterate people who are not aware of forums like this one or do not know how to find it. Also, most of the people complaining are the ones w/ February - May models. Maybe Acura has tightened a few screws here and there in the meantime.

c3po33

In May I bought my wife a 02 TL-S, she previously had a 97 CL. I have a 2000 ES 300. Personally I love the way the TL drives. Overall she is very happy with her car.
There are a few items that are irksome:
1. Paint: Really sucks. Full of swirl marks even when we picked up the car. Her 97 CL, which is now my step dads, has perfect paint even now. Acura needs to do something about the paint. My 2000 ES paint has zero swirls marks as like I said her 97 CL. Acura admit there is a problem here and correct it. Add more layers of paint and/or clear coat or change paint process, just correct problem.
2. When we got the car home after dealer, tried to adjust passenger seat. Motor was messed up would tried to move seat diagonally instead and forward and backwards. Took it the dealer and got it fixed. Not a big deal but this should have been caught in prep work done a dealer if not at factory. From what I’m hearing in the posts this seems to be a common occurrence.
3. Had to that car back to dealer not one but twice for seatbelt recall.
4. Sticker that says lock on inside drivers side door panel was missing. Again nothing major at all but just odd.
5. Center consol kept popping up. Again had to take in to dealer back not once but twice till it was fixed correctly.

As you can see except for a few minor things, except for the paint (which I consider major) my wife and I are very happy with the car. No car will be perfect and everything but the paint has been fixed by the dealer. This spring or summer I will be in the market for a new car and I’m considering the 02 ES 300, 03 Infinity G35, and the 03 TL-S (if it is new). For the price I think the TL-S is a great car.

gohawks63

Perfect to you may not be perfect for someone else. That's why Acura sells two versions of the TL. One more sport oriented and and a softer more luxury oriented version.

Nothing is perfect, why do people mod Corvettes and Vipers? 'Cause no one is ever really satisified because they want more.

You don't see many Lincoln and Cadillac owners making many performance mods to their car do you? Why? Different demographics. The TL seems to be split among two types of buyers. 1. A younger more sport oriented crowd, and 2. A little older (I say a little 'cause I may come close to being in this group ) crowd that values the performance and luxury, but is not interested in a harder edged car.

I will grant you the quality issues that you've had, but to knock the car because people make mods is ridiculous.

U2SLOW

The reason I put sways on is b/c after driving 50MPH on the street, I had to slow down to 10MPH to take a corner. That's not knocking a car due to people modifying it.
It's knocking it's boat cornering ability before new sways were in.

gohawks63

You have a TL ('99-'01), TL-P, or a TL-S? I'm assuming there is a little exaggeration in your statement, cause I can take corners quite a bit faster than that, and my suspension is bone stock. And I especially find that hard to believe with a TL-S. I'm not knocking your desire to firm it up even more, I'm just saying that the TL-S isn't a bad starting point.

The biggest flaw with these cars is the stock rubber that they come with and that's because Acura was trying to come up with the best compromise between comfort and sport.

tea elle

Here we go again....

If you are trying to go around corners at 50MPH, I can only hope you're not in my neighborhood. Or, for that matter, any area where there are things like driveways or street parking. In how many of the four languages you speak can you say "reckless driving" U2SLOW?

All kidding aside, I can take turns at about 25-30 mph. But without sport shift (like if I drove a Maxima or an I35) where would I be? Riding the brake. Sways and better tires would be so cool, but I don't know if I'd trust myself not to slam into some guy who's pulling out of a gas station or a parallel parking space as I came flying around the corner.