Hey guys,

I was speaking to a mechanic today, and he told me that if I'm putting on performance brakes (iRotors, and EBC greenstuff pads), that I should also rebleed my brake lines to get better performance. He also told me that using Dot 5 silicone brake fluid will improve braking, and is meant for performance driving as it can withstand more heat than that of the conventional Dot 3 fluid.

My question is, is this guy full of shit??? Is it true that Dot 5 will actually improve the braking, and help to prevent further warping from occurring in the future???

Should I not bother rebleeding my lines? My car is a year old, and the brakes have never been reblead. I was thinking of doing it when I replace my brakes. What do you guys all think???

 

You should not use DOT 5 in your Dad's car unless you want to screw up the braking system.

You need to use either Dot 3 or Dot 4 compatable brake fluids. Since I have already done the research, I have attached a link below for your convenience.

Brake Fluid comparison.
http://www57.pair.com/lane/bfluid.htm

I use and recommend Vavoline Synthetic brake fluid. The Vavoline has a higher boiling point than most of the other Dot 3 & 4 brake fluids. It is also easy to find.

Brake fluid has nothing do with nor can help prevent your rotors from warping.

 

unless you plan on racing the thing around the track (not 1/4 mile) there is no need for fluid that is higher temp. if you were to decide that you really wanted to i would check into redline products for brakefluid. i say leave it alone

 

rebleading the lines if you just replace the rotors is not needed. You only need to bleed the lines if you've introduced air into the system (think caliper replacement). Stick with the DOT3 stuff or someting like the synthetic or Castrol brake fluid that exceeds the dot3 specifications. Dot5 is a no-no

Also, the other guys are right, you don't need higher temp brake fluid unless you do a lot of hard braking and experience brake fade, of course if that's happening, I'd recomend switching your rotors and pads before switching the fluid - normal driving doesn't require any of this.

 

Whose to say I drive like a normal person. I often will stomp on my brakes when going 120 km/h. So my brakes have been abused more than an average driven TL.

I was told my one of the mechanics at acura that you should replace your brake fluid every 30 000 km or 1 year. Does this estimate sound correct???

I figure that I may as well replace the fluid if I'm putting new pads and rotors on. I also wanna lift the brake pedal a bit more, so replacing the fluid will let me do that...

 

jeff you shouldnt need to change the brake fluid, even for a spirited driver. i havent done it even though mine sees track time and i have never had a issue. the biggest gain for pedal feel is get a set of DOT approved braided lines. that will give your pedal better feel under high brake situations. then at that point if you were to do that, then (since you have to bleed the lines) i would switch to redline or something like that. not because you got new rotors (which will run cooler than factory eliminating the need for higher temp fluid)
dont get me wrong, it wont hurt to do it, its just not needed

 

Whatever, I mean I'm getting the brakes and pads installed at a reputable shop, so I figure that if they bleed the brakes, it will cost an extra 30-40 bux, and I'm sure they won't screw it up. I just find that my pedal sits a bit lower than it used to, and that could be because I'm harder than the average person on them...

let me know if you think it's a total waste, if so then I won't bother doing it.

 

What's one have to do with the other?

 

jeff can you physicaly lift the pedal higher while its just sitting there? the pedal shouldnt sit lower

 

I don't mean physically sit lower, I mean that I don't seem to get much brake action for a longer period of time. For instance, at new, the pedal would have to be pushed 1/2 inch to get a response, now I need to push it 1 inch to get a response...understand now what I mean by the pedal seems lower???

 

First possibility is that you don't have sufficient brake fluid in the brake system. Second possibility is that air is trapped inside the brake system during the fluid change operation. Third possibility is that your brake pads have worn out quite a lot.

When I bought my car new, the brake travel was long. So I brought the car back to the dealership, and they re-bled the whole system, under warranty of course. After that, the brake pedal feel returned to normal. The pedal feel was hard and the travel was short.

A couple of months ago, I changover to Rotora slotted rotors and Axis Ultimate pads without changing fluid nor re-bleeding system. The pedal feel and travel remain the same, but the car seems to stop faster with the same amount of pressure applied on the brake pedal.

 

no dot 5!!!

 

Absolutely no DOT 5! It's not compatible with DOT 3 and 4. If you're worried about temperatures, by all means get DOT 4.

 

As far as rebleeding goes, check the color of the fluid in the master cylinder resevoir. As the fluid ages, it absorbs moisture and turns dark.

It it's getting kind'a dark, then a rebleed/fluid change might be a good thing. It can actually cause corrosion and brake lock if left unckecked (brake lock comes from the absorbed water boiling in the system under heavy stress).

New - it should look like apple juice.

 

If I use Vavoline Synthetic brake fluid will I have to bleed my brake lines since its synthetic. Can I just add it to the existing blake fluid and it will be ok?

 

Read the bottle. If it says it's compatible with DOT 3 and 4 you should be OK.

If you're adding brake fluid because the reservoir is low be careful. Brake fluid doesn't evaporate. If it's low it's probably because your pads are worn - and a lot of the fluid is sitting down in the calipers. If your pads are fairly new and your fluid is low, you probably have a leak.

 

OK I've tried to search to find out but if I'm buying Honda Brake Fluid, how much should I buy?

I'll be at the dealer tomorrow having some recall stuff done so it's perfect timing. I'll also pick up 6 quarts of ATF fluid as well.

Changed the front pads & rotors this weekend - Akebono Pro-ACT and Brembo solids. About an hour or so job and so far they feel and work great.

Rob

 

Hey Rob,
I also ordered the Brembo solid rotors and the Akibono pads....should be in by tomorrow....How are they working out? Was it an easy swop with a stock fit or did you need to use shims or any concerns I shoukd know about with the installition? Also, how are you bedding in the pads??

 

One bottle will be plenty enough to flush and replace all of the fluid.

As for the DOT 5 issue, it will eat away the seals on the master cylinder, so unless you want to replace it, don't use DOT 5. DOT 5.1 is okay, however. I've been running 5.1 Ate Super Blue for about 10k miles now and it's all good.

 

In a word - simple. I did the pads first then the rotors in this sequence:

1. Loosen the wheel nuts both sides (so the don't spin in the air)
2. Jack the car in the front.
3. Jack stand under the jacking points.
4. Wheel off.
5. Two small bolts to loosen the flexible brake line.
6. remove one bolt at the bottom of the caliper
7. Rotate caliper up (now the loose line makes it easier)
8. Old pads out - C-clamp the piston gently back in.
9. New pads in - with included moly lube.
10. Rotate downward.
11. Bolt back in & torque.
12. Two bolts out from the inside the caliper - most difficult step as it's a little awkward and highly torqued. Long socket wrench worked just fine.
13. Hang up the caliper so it doesn't hang by the brake line.
14. Two phillips screws out of the rotor - impact screwdriver from harbor frieght and a hammer helped.
15. Wiggle the rotor off - mine pulled right off.
15.1 Wash hands to keep old gunk off new rotors (& out of the kitchen for step 16).
16. Clean new rotor - brake cleaner or Dawn - I used Dawn in the sink no issues.
17. Rotors on - I think there's only one way to line up all the holes.
18. New German over engineered screws included on.
19. Torque screws to 7.9 ft lbs (similar to turning off stereo knob - ish)
20. Put the caliper back on with the two bolts - torque is near 80 ft lbs if memory serves. (A bit difficult holding the caliper and lining up the bolts - just don't drop the caliper)
21. Two bolts back in that hold the brake line.
22. Wheel back on.
23. Lug nuts back on & torqued
23. jack stand out
24. lower car.

Repeat as needed - but you knew that.

Start the car and pump the brakes a couple of times - you'll feel them get "right". I'm breaking them in very gently which in my world means don't let my wife drive the car. No sudden stops if you can avoid them a couple hundred miles and you set. I know there are other ways, but I'm on the "cautious" side of folks on the board. I backed out of the garage and heard one squeek and that's it so far.

From my feel this set up has a more firm feeling than stock. It makes me think that I could stop the car in a shorter distance. I replaced original rotors and Honda OEM pads. I didn't measure the rotors but they had 98k and for years had a strong shudder/vibration during significant braking.

This along with the A/C filter change are two of the great "Geez I don't have to go to the dealer because I CAN do it myself" jobs that I've found. Read the service manual and follow all the torques as this is one darn important area but it's just not rocket science.

I would have changed the brake fluid IF I would have had it - no biggie.

Rob

 

Holy $*!t,
Thanks for the effort put into the response....Hope the rotors and pads arrive by tomorrow.....should have them on by the end of the week. The stock rotors are shaking quite a bit when you jump on the brake from hwy speed.

 

You're welcome! I've learned a lot from this board and if I get the chance to give a little bit of experience back then it's the least that I or any of us can do.

Take your time and enjoy it.

 

Thanks....a/c filter will be next....oil and filter for sure before a trip to NYC in 2 weeks for some turkey.....thinking about a tranny fluid change but affraid to say the "T" word.....64k miles on the original and other than some shuttering/lurching what ever you want to call it, it shifts firm under spirited driving....a bit of a delay before going into gear from park.....just not sure if I should mess with it....no oil injector either.