Big bore throttle body installed
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Big bore throttle body installed
I've installed a bored TL throttle body (increased in size about 2.5 mm). I dyno'ed the car before the install and I'll be running it again next week to measure the results...subjectively, it feels quite a bit stronger...yeeehaahh! 
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It cost me about $250...in the meanwhile I may have found a better source in Seattle who specialize in Honda/Acura performance and might have better prices. They mentioned the possibility of a group buy. I'll be talking to them on Monday and will post the results.
The Doctor
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,024
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From: Bellevue, WA
who in Seattle specializes in honda/acura performance? i am from Seattle!!!
Originally posted by Ramsen:
It cost me about $250...in the meanwhile I may have found a better source in Seattle who specialize in Honda/Acura performance and might have better prices. They mentioned the possibility of a group buy. I'll be talking to them on Monday and will post the results.
It cost me about $250...in the meanwhile I may have found a better source in Seattle who specialize in Honda/Acura performance and might have better prices. They mentioned the possibility of a group buy. I'll be talking to them on Monday and will post the results.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2000
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another dumb questoin by me...
what's a tl throttle body... what are the gains of having it... price sounds good, so i'm interested lol
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99'TL Satin Silver Metalic Non/Nav
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what's a tl throttle body... what are the gains of having it... price sounds good, so i'm interested lol
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99'TL Satin Silver Metalic Non/Nav
Comtech springs
Side markers
Gutter guard grille including bottom three slots too
Ractive air filter
3" Tips
Mirror tint
Factory Spoiler
Moonroof visor
Burlwood shift knob
Inspire tail lights
Some cool looking pedals
VERY soon to come:
WW Kit, Wood Kit, Hyper White Lights (brights, rear and front signals as well)
Safety Car
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From: Milky Way, Earth
Yeah, Seattle is good! Where and who??!?
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Instructor
Joined: Jul 2000
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Originally posted by Ramsen:
I've installed a bored TL throttle body (increased in size about 2.5 mm). I dyno'ed the car before the install and I'll be running it again next week to measure the results...subjectively, it feels quite a bit stronger...yeeehaahh!
I've installed a bored TL throttle body (increased in size about 2.5 mm). I dyno'ed the car before the install and I'll be running it again next week to measure the results...subjectively, it feels quite a bit stronger...yeeehaahh!
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Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 1
So technically, the combination of bigger throttle and CAI should perform pretty darn good, right? If so, you know I want it. Oh, did you read UWTL's post on the GS400? Well with this combo and headers, a mere possibility...hmmm 
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2000 TL non NAVI
Factory body kit
Factory spoiler
Burlwood knob
35% mirror tint
Inspire Steering Wheel
Gutter Grille
AEM CAI
Tenzo 700X fog lights
Custom Mesh Bumper
Inspire Tail Lights
Comptech Springs,
Comptech Headers, Sways, 18' DAZZ MATIZ on the way - Thank You Mr. Snook!!!!
CLK55 AMG Next Baby!
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2000 TL non NAVI
Factory body kit
Factory spoiler
Burlwood knob
35% mirror tint
Inspire Steering Wheel
Gutter Grille
AEM CAI
Tenzo 700X fog lights
Custom Mesh Bumper
Inspire Tail Lights
Comptech Springs,
Comptech Headers, Sways, 18' DAZZ MATIZ on the way - Thank You Mr. Snook!!!!
CLK55 AMG Next Baby!
OG
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 21
From: Foster City, CA
Did you port match the opening on the intake manifold? If not, it is useless.
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1999 Silver with factory body kit, spoiler and burlwood instrument cluster and shift knob. Joshua Tree Wood dash kit. Hella air horns. Tint all around. Razo competition pedals. MOMO Sport 18"X7.5" with 225/40ZR Pirelli P7000SS. Weapon-R intake. Comptech springs, exhaust and headers. Inspire Tailights, homemade ram-air and Polarg M-12 front turn signals. Comptech front and rear sway bar. Axxis Metal Master front and rear pads.
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Drifting
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Torrance, CA
Correct me if I'm wrong.. but I think Throttle Body is that part that opens up to let air into the engine. It's the connecting part b/w the intake and the engine... right? And bigger the TB is, more air it'll let in, thus more horsepower. Something like that.
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Y2K silver TL, non-navi
Factory style full body kit + spoiler, 38% window tint
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Originally posted by AcuraTL:
Did you port match the opening on the intake manifold? If not, it is useless.
Did you port match the opening on the intake manifold? If not, it is useless.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Ramsen on 11-25-2000 @ ]</font>
OG
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 21
From: Foster City, CA
Well, let say the stock throttle body opening went from 60mm to 63mm. Well, if the intake manifold openeing is still 60mm, how are you taking advantage ont he bored-out throttle body?
You can easily port match your intake manifold with a rotary dremel tool. 3mm or so is very easy to enlarge.
You can easily port match your intake manifold with a rotary dremel tool. 3mm or so is very easy to enlarge.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 902
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver
Acura-TL. I is very simple fluid theory. From my friend, he is a mechanic, the TB actually speeds up the air and get the air flowing into the manifold. So, the TB is actually the restrictive agent.
Fluid Theory, Q=AV
where Q=discharge, A=cross section area, V=velocity of the fluid.
Let say Q1=discharge from TB, Q2=discharge from manifold. From the theory, Q1=Q2, so a smaller x-area from the manifold will just speed up the velocity of the fluid (air in this case), but u still get the same Q, which means u get the same amount of air flowing into the manifold. The only matters is the head lost in the transition point between of the manifold and the TB. However, this lost is very small that u can actually neglect that.
Therefore, change TB actually works. The only concern is whether there is enough pressure for the fuel pump to give the desired air/fuel mix. If not, too lean???
Just my explanation, correct me if I am wrong.
Fluid Theory, Q=AV
where Q=discharge, A=cross section area, V=velocity of the fluid.
Let say Q1=discharge from TB, Q2=discharge from manifold. From the theory, Q1=Q2, so a smaller x-area from the manifold will just speed up the velocity of the fluid (air in this case), but u still get the same Q, which means u get the same amount of air flowing into the manifold. The only matters is the head lost in the transition point between of the manifold and the TB. However, this lost is very small that u can actually neglect that.
Therefore, change TB actually works. The only concern is whether there is enough pressure for the fuel pump to give the desired air/fuel mix. If not, too lean???
Just my explanation, correct me if I am wrong.
Pro
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 528
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whta does it do people???????
i'm dumb
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99'TL Satin Silver Metalic Non/Nav
Comtech springs
Side markers
Gutter guard grille including bottom three slots too
Ractive air filter
3" Tips
Mirror tint
Factory Spoiler
Moonroof visor
Burlwood shift knob
Inspire tail lights
Some cool looking pedals
VERY soon to come:
WW Kit, Wood Kit, Hyper White Lights (brights, rear and front signals as well)
i'm dumb
------------------
99'TL Satin Silver Metalic Non/Nav
Comtech springs
Side markers
Gutter guard grille including bottom three slots too
Ractive air filter
3" Tips
Mirror tint
Factory Spoiler
Moonroof visor
Burlwood shift knob
Inspire tail lights
Some cool looking pedals
VERY soon to come:
WW Kit, Wood Kit, Hyper White Lights (brights, rear and front signals as well)
OG
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 21
From: Foster City, CA
Originally posted by SAZABI:
Acura-TL. I is very simple fluid theory. From my friend, he is a mechanic, the TB actually speeds up the air and get the air flowing into the manifold. So, the TB is actually the restrictive agent.
Fluid Theory, Q=AV
where Q=discharge, A=cross section area, V=velocity of the fluid.
Let say Q1=discharge from TB, Q2=discharge from manifold. From the theory, Q1=Q2, so a smaller x-area from the manifold will just speed up the velocity of the fluid (air in this case), but u still get the same Q, which means u get the same amount of air flowing into the manifold. The only matters is the head lost in the transition point between of the manifold and the TB. However, this lost is very small that u can actually neglect that.
Therefore, change TB actually works. The only concern is whether there is enough pressure for the fuel pump to give the desired air/fuel mix. If not, too lean???
Just my explanation, correct me if I am wrong.
Acura-TL. I is very simple fluid theory. From my friend, he is a mechanic, the TB actually speeds up the air and get the air flowing into the manifold. So, the TB is actually the restrictive agent.
Fluid Theory, Q=AV
where Q=discharge, A=cross section area, V=velocity of the fluid.
Let say Q1=discharge from TB, Q2=discharge from manifold. From the theory, Q1=Q2, so a smaller x-area from the manifold will just speed up the velocity of the fluid (air in this case), but u still get the same Q, which means u get the same amount of air flowing into the manifold. The only matters is the head lost in the transition point between of the manifold and the TB. However, this lost is very small that u can actually neglect that.
Therefore, change TB actually works. The only concern is whether there is enough pressure for the fuel pump to give the desired air/fuel mix. If not, too lean???
Just my explanation, correct me if I am wrong.
Let me explain it like this. Let say you your muffler inlet diamter is 2" and the pipe that goes into the muffler inlet is also 2". Well, if you enlarge the pipe that goes into the muffler to 2.5" but the muffler inlet remains at 2", did you really gain anything? My theory is NO.
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1999 Silver with factory body kit, spoiler and burlwood instrument cluster and shift knob. Joshua Tree Wood dash kit. Hella air horns. Tint all around. Razo competition pedals. MOMO Sport 18"X7.5" with 225/40ZR Pirelli P7000SS. Weapon-R intake. Comptech springs, exhaust and headers. Inspire Tailights, homemade ram-air and Polarg M-12 front turn signals. Comptech front and rear sway bar. Axxis Metal Master front and rear pads.
My AcuraTL Homepage
NEW: '01 Acura MDX Silver Premium
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Original Member #81
Joined: Jun 2000
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From: Jacksonville, FL
It's called increasing velocity......that's why your intake pipe is 3".....are you saying it doesn't work?......of course it does. If you start larger and go smaller you increase the velocity.......I'm getting my throttle body bored out and a larger plate installed. The max they will go is +4mm larger.
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OG
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Foster City, CA
Have you even seen how thick the intake manifold base is where it meets the throttle body? It is only 1/4" thick. Don't you think it would be better if you could enlarge the intake manifold opening to match the enlarged throttle body opening so it doesn't disturb the airflow?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by AcuraTL:
Have you even seen how thick the intake manifold base is where it meets the throttle body? It is only 1/4" thick. Don't you think it would be better if you could enlarge the intake manifold opening to match the enlarged throttle body opening so it doesn't disturb the airflow?
Have you even seen how thick the intake manifold base is where it meets the throttle body? It is only 1/4" thick. Don't you think it would be better if you could enlarge the intake manifold opening to match the enlarged throttle body opening so it doesn't disturb the airflow?
OG
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 21
From: Foster City, CA
Originally posted by Ramsen:
I agree with you...it's something I'm going to do...I just disagree that boring the body doesn't make any difference at all...it sure seems to!
I agree with you...it's something I'm going to do...I just disagree that boring the body doesn't make any difference at all...it sure seems to!
Are you having any problems with the throttle plate "sticking"?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 902
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver
Acura TL. It works on ur 2"=2.5" pipe case too. The thing restricting air flow is the stuff inside ur muffler, not the inlet diameter.
It many not work if u have 2" header, then 2.5" pipe. I am not saying that the discharge theory doesn't work, just that there is another head lost in a long pipe.
However, for any transition point, air just go faster.
It many not work if u have 2" header, then 2.5" pipe. I am not saying that the discharge theory doesn't work, just that there is another head lost in a long pipe.
However, for any transition point, air just go faster.
OG
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 21
From: Foster City, CA
Originally posted by SAZABI:
Acura TL. It works on ur 2"=2.5" pipe case too. The thing restricting air flow is the stuff inside ur muffler, not the inlet diameter.
It many not work if u have 2" header, then 2.5" pipe. I am not saying that the discharge theory doesn't work, just that there is another head lost in a long pipe.
However, for any transition point, air just go faster.
Acura TL. It works on ur 2"=2.5" pipe case too. The thing restricting air flow is the stuff inside ur muffler, not the inlet diameter.
It many not work if u have 2" header, then 2.5" pipe. I am not saying that the discharge theory doesn't work, just that there is another head lost in a long pipe.
However, for any transition point, air just go faster.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 902
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver
O well, just take my word then.
It will work if u put the TB only. Just fluid mechanics. Discharge means how many unit volume per second (time) is being delievered by the source. Once the discharge is settled, it will not change throughout the system. The only thing changing is the cross section area, the velocity.
In a pipe flow, energy is lost due to friction. For transition point, the lost is very small that it can be neglected. Transition... e.g. entering the pipe, exiting the pipe, changing in cross section area..... etc.
It will work if u put the TB only. Just fluid mechanics. Discharge means how many unit volume per second (time) is being delievered by the source. Once the discharge is settled, it will not change throughout the system. The only thing changing is the cross section area, the velocity.
In a pipe flow, energy is lost due to friction. For transition point, the lost is very small that it can be neglected. Transition... e.g. entering the pipe, exiting the pipe, changing in cross section area..... etc.
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Joined: May 2000
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From: Brooklyn, NY USA
A throttle body is what a Carbeurator used to be.
Ed
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Ed
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Drifting
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 1
Perhaps we should ask Snook to do a group buy...let's support his site!!!!!
I have no clue what this throttle body thing is, but if it is true (5%-10% HP increase) I'm down!
Snook, what you think bro?
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2000 TL non NAVI
Factory body kit
Factory spoiler
Burlwood knob
35% mirror tint
Inspire Steering Wheel
Gutter Grille
AEM CAI
Tenzo 700X fog lights
Custom Mesh Bumper
Inspire Tail Lights
Comptech Springs,
Comptech Headers, Sways, 18' DAZZ MATIZ on the way - Thank You Mr. Snook!!!!
CLK55 AMG Next Baby!
I have no clue what this throttle body thing is, but if it is true (5%-10% HP increase) I'm down!
Snook, what you think bro?
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2000 TL non NAVI
Factory body kit
Factory spoiler
Burlwood knob
35% mirror tint
Inspire Steering Wheel
Gutter Grille
AEM CAI
Tenzo 700X fog lights
Custom Mesh Bumper
Inspire Tail Lights
Comptech Springs,
Comptech Headers, Sways, 18' DAZZ MATIZ on the way - Thank You Mr. Snook!!!!
CLK55 AMG Next Baby!
S/C'd Accord Coming Soon!
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
From: Lafayette, LA | Houston, TX (Weekends)
Just some randmon thoughts and opinions about a bored out throttle body.
Using a bored out TB with a stock air system, would be a good situation for a LOSS of power.
Using a bored TB with a high flow intake should help a small amount (I'm hypothezing) since you have a higher volume of air trying to enter the intake manifold, which has to go through the TB first.
Using a bored TB with a forced induction setup should help a greater amount since you have a MUCH larger volume of air trying to enter the intake manifold.
Now the question arises; Which is MORE restrictive, the intake manifold or the TB? If the TB is the more restrictive of the two, then I would say that an increase in power is possible, if not... uhhh that's what the dyno is for.
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Brian =B-)
2000 Accord LX V6 Sedan White - 3,310 lbs w/ driver - 170HP & 160ft/lbs
- Eibach Pro-Kit (1.5" drop)
- Red AEM Short RAM Intake (8-10hp & 5-6 ft/lbs gain on a DynoJet)
- Red AEM Tru Power Pulleys (10hp @ 5,600rpms & 11ft/lbs @ 4,600rpms gain on a DynoJet)
- 15.45 @ 88.8mph (Track) [with AEM intake/pulleys] 0-60mph 7.2 sec (G-Tech) [with intake/pulleys]
Using a bored out TB with a stock air system, would be a good situation for a LOSS of power.
Using a bored TB with a high flow intake should help a small amount (I'm hypothezing) since you have a higher volume of air trying to enter the intake manifold, which has to go through the TB first.
Using a bored TB with a forced induction setup should help a greater amount since you have a MUCH larger volume of air trying to enter the intake manifold.
Now the question arises; Which is MORE restrictive, the intake manifold or the TB? If the TB is the more restrictive of the two, then I would say that an increase in power is possible, if not... uhhh that's what the dyno is for.
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Brian =B-)
2000 Accord LX V6 Sedan White - 3,310 lbs w/ driver - 170HP & 160ft/lbs
- Eibach Pro-Kit (1.5" drop)
- Red AEM Short RAM Intake (8-10hp & 5-6 ft/lbs gain on a DynoJet)
- Red AEM Tru Power Pulleys (10hp @ 5,600rpms & 11ft/lbs @ 4,600rpms gain on a DynoJet)
- 15.45 @ 88.8mph (Track) [with AEM intake/pulleys] 0-60mph 7.2 sec (G-Tech) [with intake/pulleys]
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,471
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From: Naples
Originally posted by AC:
Perhaps we should ask Snook to do a group buy...let's support his site!!!!!
I have no clue what this throttle body thing is, but if it is true (5%-10% HP increase) I'm down!
Snook, what you think bro?
Perhaps we should ask Snook to do a group buy...let's support his site!!!!!
I have no clue what this throttle body thing is, but if it is true (5%-10% HP increase) I'm down!
Snook, what you think bro?
Pro
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
The end all be all, is the dyno. We'll just have to see.
Just because something is aftermarket doesn't mean it'll be better. Hell I've seen tests where cars lose power and make slower times because of aftermarket parts (from well known vendors)
Also with Throttle Bodies this is especially true. You want the best combination of pressure, velocity, and volume on your intake charge. By increasing the bore, you're slowing the air down but allowing more volume to enter.
I've also heard cases of aftermarket TB's completely f*cking with the car, not just loping idles, but actual high end mid range rpm's. Like I said, let the dyno be the judge.
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Kenny
TL
Just because something is aftermarket doesn't mean it'll be better. Hell I've seen tests where cars lose power and make slower times because of aftermarket parts (from well known vendors)
Also with Throttle Bodies this is especially true. You want the best combination of pressure, velocity, and volume on your intake charge. By increasing the bore, you're slowing the air down but allowing more volume to enter.
I've also heard cases of aftermarket TB's completely f*cking with the car, not just loping idles, but actual high end mid range rpm's. Like I said, let the dyno be the judge.
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Kenny
TL
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey Ramsen, had my throttle body bored out on my 4runner and it made a hell of a difference so I know it works. Haven't heard from you for a while. You ever got around to installing the H&R springs? How about the numbers on the stock height you were supposed to get me?