There was a thread here a few days ago called "TLS Quality". I derailed it to a discussion of Saturn which devolved into a thread about how Saturn owners are fiercly loyal despite there being nothing special about their cars. I'd like to try this again, only keeping it on topic for Acura this time. Here is my last post in that off-topic thread:

There actually did used to be something special about Saturn cars, and the company that sold them (including the dealer network). When I bought my first Saturn in 1991, I got a fully loaded coupe model for $15K. That was far less than comparable models like the Eagle Talon, Toyota Celica, or Nissan 240SX. The build quality really was outstanding, I thought the styling was original and striking, and you were treated with trust and honesty.

Now, I have to agree with everyone else. The prices have gone up DRAMATICALLY. The last Saturn I bought was a 1995 sports coupe, again fully loaded, that came to over $20K. It wasn't as nicely built, but the biggest disappointments were the attitudes of the dealers and corporate folks.

Maybe I've just survived the cult and now see it for what it is, but I honestly believe they were onto something there at the start and then lost it. To bring this back to Acura talk, I see Acura at the same decision point. They are one of the only carmakers who sells a high-quality product for a reasonable price (maybe THE only one), and despite some failings, they really try to live up to very high customer service standards. They will either continue to build customer loyalty and hence long-term profits, or they will get cheap on us and sacrifice all that for short-term gains. Does anyone else see this the same way I do?

 

This is my first experience with Honda/Acura. I don't see any evidence that they ever were at the level of the old Saturn. I've visited two dealers, and the differences in attitude and service were night and day. Not what I would expect from a company looking to build or maintain reputation. As for build quality, again, I've never owned another Honda or Acura. I've heard lots of positive remarks about their build quality in the past (and other models). I must say, however, that my TLS has several minor, but irritating, and one not so minor (paint) build problems (others have noticed them as well) that I would not expect on a $20,000 Ford.

Overall, I like the car very much. I would just expect that a car in this category and at this price would be more perceptually "perfect". I really think it's a matter of Acura rushing the cars to market in an effort to make significant sales and garner attention from people like me who never paid the least bit of attention to Acura in the past. They knew that other manufacturers had stuff in the works that would be very competitive, so they rushed to beat them.

 

I don't know if this is true with the other higher end dealers but i find the Acura dealers have a take it or leave it attitude that is distasteful. I think if they forgot what got them here in the first place a very long time ago, and have believed their own lies...same as Saturn, as you say.

It's very difficult or impossible to get it back.

 

We had a '98 Saturn SL2 before the Acura TL.

Saturn of Bordentown runs circles around Princeton Acura. The experience I had at the Saturn dealer is like what people find at Park Ave Acura in North Jersey. Too bad the other Acura dealers are not like Park Ave. I wonder if the owner of Park Ave Acura owns a Saturn dealer too.

The Saturn dealer would do whatever it took to please us. My wife didn't like the way the seat buckle sounded when she attached the belt to it. They replaced it. They never gave us attitude. I took my TL in for service and asked them about the uneven tailpipes. They said it looked like someone hit it! WTF?! I never knew a dealer who refused to do an oil change but Princeton Acura did! They said to wait until 7,000 mile service. My wife asked why does everyone else say 3,000 miles? They said, "This isn't Jiffy Lube".

IMHO, my Acura Dealer experience has been no better than what you would find at a Ford/GM dealership. They basically talk down and belittle you.

I think I'm going to start making the trip up to Park Ave Acura. I have never seen a complaint about them.

 

no.i trust acura/honda's quality.i have ever had/have 3 honda cars. one is 1996 honda accord lx.and my wife's 1997 honda civic ex and now my cls.and they all do not have any problems. i love honda/acura,especially vtec power...it is honda and no other car manufacture can replace or equal to it....

 

I live in Midwest--in May we bought our daughter a new 2001 Saturn SC1 from our local dealer. The car has been great for her.Quality seems to be very good. (Tremendously underpowered though compared to TL-S). Dealer personell, however, were terrible! All they wanted to do was show us videos about the "Saturn Way" (which we didn't have time for) while possesing NO individual knowledge about the cars. F& I manager was likewise clueless--about F & I, even! The mentality seems to me to be that the cars and the "Saturn Way" will do all the work -therefore they can go out and hire pitifully underqualified staff at probably close to minumum wage.

Two weeks ago we bought WDP 2002 TL-S. Difference was like night and day!! Very knowledgable and courteous staff--really got the "red carpet treatment" Really felt very important to them.
Like I read somewhere here--might just be till survey goes back --but it really made us feel good about transaction.

 

Well I bought a Saturn in 96 and I could say that the buying experience before and after was very pleasant. None of this push, push crap that you have to buy now and all this other stuff. I bought the car because I knew it would be reliable and it was cheaper than even a program Corolla. All problems that I had were fixed without hesitation… little rattles etc. I had two problems with the car….alternator and speedo… that is it.

Now when I went to go look at the CL-S and TL-S in Baton Rouge… I got this lady that was totally clueless. She didn’t know the names of the colors available and even claimed that the 0-60 times for the normal TL must be wrong because she had seen one do 0-60 in the 4’s … haha.

I just can’t believe that some dealers can get away with this ****. I could name countless dealers that are just clueless. When I went to test drive an Altima a few weeks ago… the lady actually thanked me for teaching her about the car. She said the dealer told her she would get a hang of how things work over time. Good training!!

 

One thing I wish Acura would learn from Saturn is their doors. I mean, of all things that would make the owning experience with my TL-S so much higher, it would be the ability to feel like I could park it in most parking areas without coming out and finding 2 dings. You get paranoid to park anywhere as it is now. How much technology can there be in that for a $30K car? Saturn definately got us whooped on that one.

 

As Far as Dealer experience goes, Erin Mills Acura here in Miss. Canada was great. I drove my car 6 times while doing comparaisons with other makes over a 2 month period. Everytime (after test drives) I went back to hand over the keys, all they asked was if I liked the drive. I would say "YES, but I am still not quite sure" and said "I would come back when I felt ready". THATS IT!!! they did not say anything else., besides "Feel free to call them anytime with any questions". Guess what ... I finally bought it from them!!

Just got my 3-month call today from the dealer (salesperson) asking how I liked the car and how my first oil change went. Not too happy about their service though, but only in the sense that I get the feeling they are overpriced compared to other dealers. Only been in there once ... so too early to tell.

 

I guess it's common about talking down to people. When i brought my TL in for regular service at Acura dealer, i told em to check the bottom as i thought there was something leaking there. "Well, you probably hit a rock..." Ahuh....i drove over a boulder....forgot to mention that...pleazz....

When i told em to check alignment cuz it pulled to right, "Well, you see, the road is not completely flat, there's a crown to it so what you have is normal". Really, so i always have to drive with the wheel turned to the left slighthly huh??? A$$hol&......

Without checking, dealer already knows better than you...it seems like YOU are the one who's doing things wrong or ignorant...

When i asked him if they sold Comptech parts, "Isn't that a PC company??" That's a typical dealer, isn't it???

 

I think I speak for many others when I say that my Acura "luxury car experience" has been pathetic. Acura has a LONG way to go before they even begin to touch the level of customer service Saturn does or can claim a luxury car brand.

I've owned a Saab for three years and have three Jeeps before that - Saab and Chrysler treat me like a king when I walk in the door - FREE loaner cars EVERY time - even for an oil change (and not some beater car, Saab usually gives me a NEW 9-5!), FREE shuttle service, FREE car washes and vacuum, and they go over every repair in detail, return parts, and follow up TWICE by phone to make sure everything is ok.

During my last Saab service, they made a minor mistake worth about $50, and picked up the entire $300+ maintenance bill to make up for it as customer loyality allowance.

Acura is a joke. This is definitely NOT a luxury car experience. Lexus puts them to shame. The sales people are all from 1975 (expect that one I finally found), and service can be like pulling teeth.

 

You have got to be kidding. Saturn is typical American made garbage. Have you actually driven or sat in a Saturn? If your happy with a Saturn then an Acura is way overkill.

Now the Acura dealer experience in another story. They suck. But I have never owned a Saturn to see how the dealers treat you there. And I hope I never do.

Being that Acura is going after the Luxury experience, it is really disheartening when you go there for sales or service and are treated like you were at the typical Mazda or Mitsubishi dealership. Lexus and Infiniti have completely revamped there look and service. As much as I love my TLs, next time around I will be looking elsewhere.

By the way.... Don Mealey Acura in Orlando is one of the worst dealerships for customer satisfaction I have ever experienced. Both sales and service. Don't ever let them detail you car after service also... trust me. The worst!!!

 

Sad but true, as cheap(priced) and as simple as Saturn may be, they have a niche-one that Very few other cars companies have, Especially their "no haggle, no hassle" policy..The only other dealer I've seen with a similar reputation is Volkswagen. Saturn is a well made car. There's a reason why it's always ranked up their in satisfaction. A lot of people think it's a POS, guess what? You get what you pay for. Realize on thing, no car is perfect. whether it be a $10,000 car or a $500,000 car, NO CAR IS PERFECT. It may have a squeak here and there, but do you expect a car to remain as solid as it was from when it rolled off the showroom floor 5 years down the line? My last two cars were a a '95 Millenia S and before that, an '87 Accord(inherited from dad) which we kept for 10 years, and still ran strong. The only problem I had(and still exists with honda products) is the Transmission. Call them bulletproof, they are pretty noisy and succeptible to problems... I had my Tranny(auto) rebuilt in my Accord because of vibration/slippage from 1st to 2nd, and that was the only problem I ever had with that car. My TL, the only problem I have is the noisy transmission... I cringe everytime I hear the clunk when putting the car from drive to reverse or any other sequence... I drive many different cars on a daily basis and find the GM/Toyota/Nissan trannies to be among the best.
Ed
P.S. Didja know that the BMW 5 series Tranny is a GM unit? It's true!

 

This is off-topic for this thread, but I have to disagree. I bought my CL at Don Mealey and had the best car-buying experience of my life. I also used their service department for all my scheduled maintenance on my CL and Integra, and found them to be courteous, thorough, and professional!

 

Iceman...

Yes I guess this is off subject but I must say, you are one of the lucky ones. My wife’s Integra was almost destroyed by their detailing monkeys... twice. I came close to suing them. After speaking with our sales guy, who I will admit is a very nice gentleman, told me his personal car was ruined by the same monkeys. (He had won a free detailing job in some promotion they had for the sales guys.)

As for the general sales manager. What a %$#^*(**^&*())^&

Looser would be putting it kindly.

- Sorry for off the subject post.

Myers

 

I have to admit I never had them detail my car; I do that myself. But every time I was in for service and they washed it at the end, they did a decent job. What did they do to your wife's Integra?

 

Well, the first time was after the initial 3500 oil change. They thought it necessary to buff the brand new black finish with a high speed buffer. The black plastic around the windows were damaged with deep buff scratches.

- They replaced the plastic parts.

A year later, they decided to rub out some minor surface scratches by hand and left very noticeable rubbing marks. About in 4 different places. This is after we specifically asked that no detailing was to be done after the service.

- They denied that it happened there.

I keep my cars immaculate. I detail them every weekend myself. It happened there!

I took my TLS in for the first 3500 mile service on Friday 10/12/01.
The center console will not stay shut. The steering wheel makes a rubbing noise when turned to the right. The seats had black marks on them from the grease monkeys. Nothing like having more problems leaving the dealership then when you brought it in.

- They said they would fix it.

Great service for a so-called "high end" vehicle.

Sorry to sound sarcastic, but this is so typical of any visit I have had to that dealership. Maybe I'm too picky.

Somehow I bet this would not happen with Lexus.

Myers

 

Myers:
Funny to see you say all this. Similar story just happened just today...

Bought my car and registered it in AL, thus taking advantage of my family living there and the 3% tax versus the 6.5% in TX. So I brought it to the only (yes only) Acura place in Austin...I am SO jealous of Houston, with three, and Dallas, with two. The button that allows you to adjust the seats via power seats was broken...I drove 45 min in traffic after explaining the issue and they said "yeah the part is in stock". Get there...part is NOT in stock and the guy I spoke with denies I spoke with him. They ordered the part, and I come back today. They take my car away to the "back room" and I sit for an hour...before I'm told that the techs left for the day...however my car will be out in a min. Now I applied 3 coats of Zaino to the car already, looked great...no scratches or whatnot...buff marks I took all of them out with Z5. Car rolls out...there are circular scratches all OVER the hood. When the car is back there do they BUFF it or something? What do they do that would cause this?!?! I had the car absolutely PERFECT and they have swirl marks all OVER it now. Ideas? Anything I can do about it?

Austin519

*edit*
I forgot to mention why NOT to buy Acura in Austin, TX. On top of the royally stupid service guys...there is a person in sales...that handles most of the sales...named Mike (don't remember his last name). He tried to sell me a 2002 NBP non Navi for $34k "broken in" (raced) by their sales manager (and he even said a week before, aka before he knew I wanted it, that he raced it for the first 2k miles)...citing that there was "no break-in period whatsoever" for these cars, so not to worry. He said that was the lowest price he could go...and was the lowest I would find anywhere...and that was NOT driveout. I tell him that his service place is a bit out-of-the-way, and was curious to know if the Honda place (10 min away) could do service...which he said "certainly". Called them, they said no way. So, I ended up NOT buying from this little grease ball and getting my car with 7 miles on it shipped TO MY DOOR from Acura's factory by King Acura in Birmingham, AL for $30,500 driveout...