Just wondering if Type S can be modified to put out 300HP. Just 15.3% more output and we can reach 300HP. ECU and/or forced induction kit would do it for sure... Will CompTech give us such toys?

 

i have 315 hp

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2001 cl type s
voltage blue, comptech headers, 18 inch ssr agle strusse rims,(painted voltage blue and achrome polished lip) custom iceman intake, pioneer avx 7000 tv, playstation 2, slammed on nex suspension, cross drilled rotors, nos fuel pressure regulator, greddy evo exhaust, (on the way level ten torqe converter and b&m tranny cooler) april 16 taking car to dealer getting 3.5 liter upgrade(mdx crankshaft, mdx rods, shaved heads, port and polish intake manifold, modified dome topped pistons.compression ratio 10.85:1
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1335581&a=9936626&p=46258064&Sequence=0

 

Sounds cool. Do you have some pics?

 

Looking at the subject of your post, I thought you were talking about something related to the Lexus IS300... hehee!!! As for 300HP, I believe it is possible if you add Comptech headers and intake and exhaust on your ride.

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2002 Black on Black TL TypeS

 

Last I heard, you just need the headers and CAI....to push it over 300 mark.
You actually lose a little with the exhaust.

 

1) not without head work or forced induction
2) Does anyone have a "bona fide" intake test done with the hood down? Some of those do ok when the hood is up and they are sucking cool air, but do less than well when real-world underhood temps are in play
3) The exhaust does not cause a loss in the hi-rpm ranges where the hp is made, does it?

HP is fine, but we will not get the real accleration benefits unless torque is increased. In an engine like ours, that will take forced induction. HP is more a top speed predictor.

 

It should be easy to achieve 300HP in the TLS without the use of NOS. Add Headers and intake and you got around 300HP at the crank. Do not be confused, not 300HP to the wheel. With header and intake, you should achieve like 230HP to the wheel which roughly calculates to close to 35% power loss, not too bad for FWD+automatic. You can add VAFC to add an additional 5 to 7HP to the wheel also, the exhaust may give you another 2 to 5HP.

 

Rage: I don't know if what you say is consistent with what I've seen. If torque gives real acceleration, how come cars like S2000 with 2.0L high revving engines have fast 0-60 and 1/4 mile times? I think S2000 has around 150 lb torque and 260 hp rated engine. I know they are light and have fast manual gear box but still...

AC: How much difference does comptech headers make compared stock Type S headers? How much more HP at the crank? I'm surprise to hear headers make that much difference. I agree, if you mess with the fuel curve using VAFC you can get real HP gains. But using those things are like driving blind since you have no idea what the ECU repond to VAFC tuning. I imagine it will be many hours of trial and error and dyno testing, so it does not seem practical.

 

Happy,

Check out the attached URL concerning Torque vs HP. Rage is 100% correct, it is the torque that is the primary determining factor on that "seat of the pants" acceleration improvement that we all strive to achieve.

"Torque is the measurement of the strength of the rotational movement and determines how fast a car, boat, or airplane accelerates up to a required speed."

http://www.dynacam.com/Product/Torqu...orsepower.html


The weight of the vehicle that the motor needs to propel has a significant impact on that cars ability to reach a certain speed. This would explain why jockeys are so small !!!

 

Happy,

The reason why the S2000 is fast is becuase it has two advantages: light weight and strong gearing. The light weight is self explanatory. The gearing is two fold: steep rear gears get the engine to rev fast and a close ratioed 6 speed keeps the engine in the power band for maximum acceleration. If you threw in a wide ratio trans and highway gears, the car would have bells on it (i.e like a sled). The car would be faster if it had a better torque curve, but for that you need a bigger motor, one that wouldn't rev so high (and seem high tech).

As for a TL-S reaching 300hp, sure it can. But you are obviously going to have to do headers, intake, and a few other things to get it there. NOS works wonders too, not to mention eating stock automatic transmissions.

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Paul's Home Page

 

Actually 300 is a very attainable gain at the crank with simple bolt ons. They may be expensive, but are still simple bolt ons.

As is the TL-S puts out 260 at the crank.
Comptech headers have been dyno'd to put out about 30 wheel hp, not crank which would be higher. I dont remember the formula for AT drive train loss, but I think it works out to 37 hp at the crank. So that alone should be at about 297hp at the crank. The other 3 ponies should be attainable. An AEM cold air if it exists for example would definitely put you over the top.



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Just call me..................Mr Hyde

TL Type-S Forum Moderator
02 Aegean Blue TL Type-S with Navi
Accord Forum Moderator/Honda-Acura.net

 

Actually the S2000 has 240 hp.

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Trying to decide
02 TL Type-S or
02 CL Type-S

 

Happy - Paul is right - torque is related to HP, but represents work "done". The fact is that the S2000 gets a lot of work done because it has an unusually high rev bands, which means its meager torque is doing a lot of work.

What I was getting at is this - unless the mods to the TL increase torque or extend the rev capability (for more HP), acceleration will improve, but not as dramaticallyt as less HP with more torque for any given rev bandwidth.

This is one reason why turbo cars can have great acceleration - the Audi S4 has twin turbos designed for high boost at relatively low revs, and it scoots. Racing turbos generally tune for higher HP at higher revs, which is conducive to racing conditions and top speeds, rather than the phsyics of acclerating a heavy vehicle from rest.

 

you can hunt down the dynos on a couple of posts, but the TL-S, which is identical to the CL-S(whose dynos are posted) gets a top HP of about 292 and torque of about 230 with comptech headers alone. The AEM CAI will put us over 300hp at the crank. The extra torque/ponies is definitely felt when it kicks in around 5500rpm, but nething lower than that, it just adds a very small boost for 2-7hp over the rest of the band. And while this is still not close to the GS400's torque, we are also paying a lot less for it. Also, don't forget that the GS400 is a V8 and we are putting out very similiar performance from a V6.

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'02 Nighthawk TL-S
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Comptech Springs / Comptech Headers / Mille Miglia Action 17x8 Rims with Bridgestone Potenza RE730's 225/45/17 tires
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Alpine CVA-1005 Head Unit / Alpine CDA-7863 CD Player / Alpine G320 EQ / Alpine DVA-5205 DVD / Alpine NVE-N851A Navi / JL Audio XR653-CS 3-Way comps for the front powered by a bridged Alpine MRV-F407 amp / Boston Acoustics 5.5 ProSeries 2-Way comps for the rear powered by Alpine MRV-1002 amp / Dual 10" JL Audio W-6 sub powered by Alpine MRV-1005 amp / Two Alpine CHA-1214 CD Changers / 20% Tint all-around

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'00 Nighthawk TL
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Aem Short Ram / Comptech Sway Bars / Comptech Springs / Cross-Drilled Rotors / Pirelli SP7000 Tires / 35% Tint all-around
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Pics of my TL and Fun/Crazy Pics

 

Headers have always been the most HP for the dollar with Hondas. I'm not sure about the TL-S, though, and it's stock headers.
Isn't our engine just a downgraded NSX 3.2? They put out 290 HP. Find out what they do to downgrade it, and fix it up.

As for exhaust, I wish there was a law about how loud they can be. Some of these kids are getting ricockulous. Way too loud, and what do they do?? Add maybe 3 HP at redline, or if the pipe is too big, it introduces backpressure, and you actually LOSE performance. Makes me want to do the "banana in the tailpipe" trick... haha

Play nice...

 

Just what exactly how is comptech header better than the stock type S header? I is hard to believe it makes that much of a difference. Has anyone actually compared the two headers and measure the pipe diameters?

 

I have studied the two "headers", here is the scoop...

The stock manifold is making the equivalent of a 600 mile an hour turn on a 30 MPH marked corner. The upper manifold looks like the right and left exhaust ports are making the gas do a hard 90 degree turn into the center pipe.

The A pipe at the bottom of the stock manifold is NOT much better. The A pipe joins the 2 banks of the engine together, it looks like the stock unit is trying to force the air from one bank into the other bank. It looks like a collision -- OUCH!


Notes:

The stock Comptech header gets about 24 HP more HP. The Comptech dyno shows 208 max output with stock, and 232 max output with their headers. So the gain is 24 HP at the front wheels. The losses in our tranny work out to about 20%. So, add in another 8-10 HP from a AEM CAI -- we are now up to 242 HP to the front wheels.

Here comes the math -- the 260 HP (at the crank) becomes 208 HP at the dyno from wheels in the Comptech graph.

The math show that 20% is being lost:

(260 - 260*0.20) = 260 - 52 = 208

To reverse the calc we want to multiply any new front wheel HP by 1.25.

208 * 1.25 = 260 (OK, the math is working)

Now, add in the 24HP from headers, and 10 from CAI and multiply by 1.25:

(208 + 24 + 10) = 242 HP (with CAI and header)

242 * 1.25 = 302.5 (at crank)

So, we have a dyno of a CLS making around 240 HP to the front wheel with CAI and Headers, so more than 300 HP at the crank is a done deal.

Finally, if you lighten the wheels, you gain "effective HP." You have seen the ads. for pulleys, lighter and less stuff to spin up. (They are only talking about a pound to spin up!)

Now think about wheels and tires that are lighter by about 50lbs on all 4 wheels (SSR Comps in 17x8). (It isn't just like loosing 50 lbs of static/dead weight. YOu save the "static" 50 lbs AND you don't have to try spinning up 50 more lbs of heavy wheel!!!!

1/4 mile time of car with those wheels and CAI and headers is 14.3.


Note: one nice thing about loosing weight, you go faster, use less gas, and put less strain on the engine and transmission; and the ride is very nice -- something to think about.



<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by EricL on June 07, 2001 @ ]</font>

 

hmmmm i guess i'd have to call jenny craig then!

anyway.. back to the serious note... how do you "measure" your HP after mods?

 

on a dyno

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2001 cl type s
voltage blue, comptech headers, 18 inch ssr agle strusse rims,(painted voltage blue and achrome polished lip) custom iceman intake, pioneer avx 7000 tv, playstation 2, slammed on nex suspension, cross drilled rotors, nos fuel pressure regulator, greddy evo exhaust, level ten torque converter,3.5 liter upgrade(mdx crankshaft, mdx rods, shaved heads, port and polish intake manifold, modified dome topped pistons.compression ratio 10.85:1, s-afc vtec controller

 

The fluid dynamics of the Comptech header come into play also - it is the benefit of the equal length pipes. This helps ensure that exhaust velocities at the junction of the three pipes per cylinder bank are relatively the same - this, plus the design of the junction (and most of the expense when you examine the cutting, fitting, and welding needed) results in less turbulence - less turbulence means more airflow, and a scavenging effect which tends to increase flow velocity. All these contribute to flow, and power.

Also, Stainless Steel tends to retain heat, which also increases flow velocity.

Not to mention the "looks cool as all hell" factor.

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Rage On!
2002 TL-S w. Comptech header/exhaust, springs, airfilter
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17