STAGED

From www.thecarconnection.com

Touched by a socket wrench

The '03 Grand Prix GTX sedan is by far the most aggressive of the '03 SLP models. It can be maxed out with a "Stage 3" package that bumps the output of the already potent 3.8-liter supercharged V-6 to around 270 from the standard 240 via an underdrive pulley for the Eaton supercharger, to increase its boost, plus a 160-degree thermostat and Hypertech Power Programmer to fatten up the fuel/air curve. This car can dip into the mid-14s (or faster) in the quarter mile with no trouble at all, rendering it more than brawny enough to *****-slap a stock Nissan Maxima or Altima.

The Buick Regal GSX is very similar to the Pontiac Grand Prix GTX, because they're shared platform cars to begin with, and are therefore very much the same under their skins. However, the breathed-on Buick is much more subtle, lacking the snorty twin scoops of its Pontiac-badged cousin and painted in more demure hues, with less ostentatious badging and graphics. This is the car you'll get away with more in, even if it's probably a tick slower as a result of not having functional Ram Air induction. Other than the absence of the air scoops, though, the Stage Three mods are the same: smaller diameter pulley for the Eaton supercharger, dual-outlet exhaust, 160-degree thermostat, Hypertech recalibrated engine controller, plus 16-inch rims (chrome-plated or painted), SLP's nicely damped ride and handling package and unique to the car, "GSX" interior and exterior trim. The Buick and Pontiac can also be fitted with fade-resistant Hawk brake pads, well worth the money.

On the Chevy side, while there's still no supercharger under the hood of the Monte Carlo coupe even though it shares the same 3.8-liter V-6 — apparently because that would be stepping too heavily on Pontiac's toes and turf as GM's "performance" division — the '03 Monte does get some much-needed attention. SLP has two versions: either an LSX (with or without Stage 1 performance upgrade that adds cold-air induction, cat back exhaust and a solid 200 hp) or the big kahuna, an impressive-looking (and sounding!) SS version with 225 hp that can hang with a factory-built (non-SLP) supercharged Grand Prix or Regal. Output is further enhanced via higher (1.8 ratio) roller-tipped rocker arms for the pushrod 3.8 liter V-6 engine, plus a Hypertech Power Programmer and 160-degree thermostat. Buyers can specify 16-inch rims (shod with meaty Bridgestone or BF-Goodrich tires), lowered springs for that hulking Winston Cup stocker look, as well as carbon fiber or burled wood dash inserts and trim, and the high-capacity Hawk brake pads are also available on either the SS and LSX. These special Montes are finished off with "SS" or "LSX" badging and trim and even come with unique key fobs for you to inconspicuously dangle at bars.

ferizzo

Grand Prix looks ok but the other two I think are ugly. Supercharged 3.8 ltr and all they can get out is 270???

STAGED

Even though power is the prime source of acceleration potential (since it is the culmination of a torque/speed combination), the PEAK power number is not everything, particularly when coupled with non-CVT transmissions.

I have no issue with their powertrain since its proven in durability (in showroom unmodified form) and performance. It's the interior fit/finish/styling that trails current rivals. But that too will change sometime next year.

samkws

270HP for the supercharged shouldn't be a problem at all...it's still underrated and it can pump out at least 300hp if they want to...

the non-supercharged 3.8 has no problem for pumping more hp to around 240-250 and maybe even 260!! but they prefer lower the cost and let the supercharged do the thing

baddawwg

I had a 99 GTP. Now have 2000TL. The GTP, even at "only" 240 supercharged ponies was remarkably quick. A used one would be a speed hunters bargain. Another 30hp is easily had by changing the SC pulley (which I did not do but a friend did). Those are real, seat of the pants hp. The GTP is a good car, but compared to the TL is unrefined in its engine noise and interior quality. Interesting that mine never really squeaked or rattled, it just didn't feel as good in hand as the Acura.

y2ks2k

As car & Driver put it when they compared the Grand Am with the other 25 cars in its class and ranked it 25th... "Pontiac still builds cars that handle like cars of the 50's"... quite is not exact but close.

samkws

huh?? the grand am is known for its handling...the GT model has a lateral of 0.83g...that's very high for a FWD midsize car
while accord and camry and maxima have 0.78-0.8G

Ruski

The article had a mistake. They don't use an underdrive pulley to get more power. They use a smaller supercharger pulley that makes the supercharger spin faster.

Also back in '96, the Pontiac Grand Prix prototype was making 300HP. GM chose to only offer 240HP, I guess most people don't need that much power in a family car and it would be less prone to failures. I had a Grand Prix GTP for 3 years and it was wikedly quick and I never any problems except for a broken steering rack that was repaired under warranty.

Someone said that peak HP does not mean much, it is the available HP that does the job. That's correct. But then again, GTP's HP and Torque have pretty flat curves.

And finally I am surprised that people are only now talking about the SLP's version of GPT. It has been available for many years with all those 270HP.

STAGED

The fastest time I ever saw on a Grand Prix was this guy with a 1999 GTX that ran 14.2 at 96mph bone stock and 13.5 at 100 on 1.9 sec. 60 ft with a 3.5" pulley and SLP exhaust. The latter setup was able to toast its tires from a 35 mph roll. Since my dad owns a 1996 supercharged Bonneville, I know first hand that strong low-speed performance can also be credited to a high 3200rpm stall torque convertor. Yet, the low compression S/C 3800s with the high stall convertor in normal around-town driving actually feels like it's struggling more than the high compression N/A 3800s with milder torque convertor stall rpms due to higher average rpms in the S/C 3800. But the S/C 3800s sure are satisfying when you whip it up for hard runs.

samkws

the GTX is sth...u can order this special package from dealer and have 260HP stock with RAM AIR...and 17in Chrome wheels...it's just 2000 extra

Ray_Khan

I'm sure a super charged V-6 has a lot of torque, and I bet it has a lot of that torque in the low end. With that being said....all horses are not the same. Peak hp can be a very decieving number. You can't say a car is fast or slow because it has x hp. You need to see where it makes that power and also see the shape of the torque curve. Of course drivetrain loss, traction, airodynamiks and gearing all count too. That's why the heavy S4 with powere robbing AWD is so fast at only 250 hp. It has 258 lb-ft of torque available at 1850-4500 RPM.

y2ks2k

Might want to take it up with car and driver but I doubt that, any ways, this was an over all test of the 25 cars and handling was just a small peice. All you have to do is look at the suspension design to see where Pontiacs fail. But that was just that review. Most reviews I have seen with Pontics in them for the past 15 years have put them at the end of the pack in most of thier various class's.

Submit all complaints and arguments to the editors of the magazine, Im just the messenger reporting the historical data.

Ruski

instead of making assumptions and speculations, just look at the HP and Torque curves for the supercharged 3800 Series II engine here:

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower...l67_torque.htm

the torque is there and well above 200 throught the entire RPM range

paxus

Can anyone point me to a site that has that torque and HP graph for the '03 TL-S? I would very much like to see that. Thanks!

STi

that's american muscle for ya, lots of torque, but no hp rush at all
i mean, it's nothing unusual if it pumps out 380hp, it's cool if it can pump out more than that, but 270? classis american phenomenon

Ray_Khan

Ruski...thanks for the info. That makes sense, with all that usable torque, I can see how that pontiac is so fast.

y2ks2k

um... common physics.. hp = fast

Ray_Khan

hp sells cars...torque moves them...hp is a calculated number, torque is measured. If it's so simple, why doesn't a 260 hp car that weighs about the same as the GP come in more then .5 (more likely .8+ seconds) slower in the 1/4? They are both FWD, have similar drag coefficients and even gearing isn't going to make that big a difference in this case (maybe a tenth or 2).

ferizzo

Um...you're talking to a physics major...nice try though!

Ruski

you may like this better

a=F/m

or in circular motion

a(turning)=Torque/m

pardon me if I incorrectly translated something from Russian. That's how I learned physics.

ferizzo

Nice try but I don't get it! I wasn't a physics major...I was talking about Ray. You might as well have been speaking/writing russian because I don't even try to understand it.

samkws

it has 250lb of torque right off the idle!!! and the curve is pretty flat
even my old 3.8 Regal has 200+lb of torque from idle at least...

Ray_Khan

Ferrizo and Ruski....that makes much more sense :>)

y2ks2k

I took my fair share of Physics for my degree...

HP = Fast
Torque = Feels fast

Of course torque plays a function... but hp still = fast
Torques great if your driving a brick and towing a boat (aka the Pontiac)

y2ks2k

I took my fair share of Physics for my degree... That being computer science

HP = Fast
Torque = Feels fast

Of course torque plays a function... but hp still = fast
Torques great if your driving a brick and towing a boat (aka the Pontiac) [/B][/QUOTE]

Ray_Khan

unless we are talking superbikes or cart/formula one cars, you need decent torque to be fast. THat's why cars with the same relative hp...Audi S4, Infinity G35 etc are faster than a TLS...same hp, same weight, MORE TORQUE. Please tell me how else these cars are faster? Even a Mustang at 260 hp and 300 ft-lbs tq can run 13's....but this isn't as close a comparison as the S4 or G35. Even my A4 at 200-215 hp and 240-250 lb-ft tq can keep up with a TLS. Some people I know with similar setups (chip/exhaust) run 14.8/14.9 on pump gas. Granted an A4 is lighter, but only 200 lbs or so. So With 60 less hp, it's the torque that does the work.

bigman

Go to club gp.com Look up their time slips. They have all the prrof that small pulleys, ram air, exhaust, thermostat, ecu and some other mods have made some of those guys run 13's and there has been 2 cases where they were highly modified on street drags and broke 12. And i'm not counting all the nos'd ones either. And it's also a proven fact that the cars running cosisten 13's are pretty highly modified and their stock trannies are a great working order. Some guys went to the next step and put in tranny coolers, but thats it.

pianoman41

I think someone once posted before "Horsepower is how fast you can go and torque is how quickly you can get there." Seems like a good way to differentiate between the two.

STi

the TLS has FWD and the two other cars are AWD or RWD, you can just floor it, putting all the power on the ground, because of the benefits of the weight transferring to the rear giving the drive wheels more traction
the TL-S just results in endless tirespin which doesn't get you anywhere and wastes time when you floor it

Ray_Khan

good point, i forgot to consideer drivetrain on the G35, but AWD can hinder as well as it can launch...AWD robs about 25% of the crank hp in an Audi...so WHP isn't so great.

STi

that's true, but since they tested the s4 with a manual of course, they can drop clutch at whatever RPM they want, and then even if the WHP is not so great, it can still get a good launch with plenty of grip and not much turbo lag
we may have more WHP for our car, but being able to put that down from standstill is another story

Pascal Type-S

I also own a '00 Buick Regal GS. It has balls. The low-end torque is impressive. A friend of mine modded his '97 Grand Prix with a 3.4" Pulley and a cold-air box. Ran 14.1. That's about $250 in parts.