245/45/17 Tires on TL-S
08-06-2002, 10:56 AM
#2
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nope... even 235 is dangerous.. it can pop off under a lot of stress... i ran 235's on stock rims for a while, but didnt feel comfortable... most manufaturers recommend the rim to be 75%-80% of the tire width
08-06-2002, 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by hemants
I have em, no problems so far and I drive pretty hard.
I have em, no problems so far and I drive pretty hard.
axleback
08-06-2002, 03:37 PM
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http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/attach...&postid=203330
Firestone Firehawk SZ50 (older version) for about $220 Cdn each (~=150 $USD)
Firestone Firehawk SZ50 (older version) for about $220 Cdn each (~=150 $USD)
08-06-2002, 04:55 PM
#6
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Don't do it!!! Why risk your safety plus that of your friends and family.
Most tire manufactures state that you can't put 225/45/17 on a 6.5" rim. You are risking it going to a 235/45/17. It's definitely out of the question to put a 245/45/17 on your 6.5” stock rim. Hemants is risking his safety by running such large tires on his stock rims. I also hear the rims are larger in Canada at 7”.
6.5” Rim + 245/45/17 = Graveyard
.
Most tire manufactures state that you can't put 225/45/17 on a 6.5" rim. You are risking it going to a 235/45/17. It's definitely out of the question to put a 245/45/17 on your 6.5” stock rim. Hemants is risking his safety by running such large tires on his stock rims. I also hear the rims are larger in Canada at 7”.
6.5” Rim + 245/45/17 = Graveyard
.
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08-07-2002, 12:33 AM
#8
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besides you dont want the $hit to look beefy as hell anyways...it looks gross when your tires are wayyy wider than the rims...a little is okay...just go with 225's...Shyne
08-07-2002, 07:17 AM
#10
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1. Cdn rims are also 6.5 inches
2. total wheel diameter for 245/45/17 is exactly the same as stock (25.68 inches) so the odometer/speedometer will be fine
3. tire manufacturers are very conservative in their recommendations - the last thing they want is to be sued for damages
4. exactly how wide you can go depends not only on rim width but also on the amount of sidewall you have. with a 17 inch tire and 25.68 inches of total diameter, the tire has 4.34 inches if sidewall
5. go to the CL forum, many there have 245/45/17 (although they are on 7 inch rims, this is still outside what tire manufactures recommend
6. I agree that going to 245 is aggressive but not because the tire will pop out.
What actually happens is the tire bends sooner and the flex point moves closer to the shoulder (conversely, if the rim is too wide, the bend will be closer to the rim). There is always more heat buildup at the flex point and since you are moving the flex point closer to the road, you will change how the tire wears.
But remember we're talking about an extra 30 centimeters over a 4.3 inch sidewall which is 0.6 inches on the inside and outside. Given that I am driving a Z rated tire that is designed to dissipate heat, I don't think there is an issue.
Strictly speaking, however, going to a tire this wide will result in slightly more flex in hard cornering but under medium cornering, the car is more stable due to more rubber on the road so it is a tradeoff.
7. The bottom line is the tire shop that did this for me guaranteed me that there would be no issues. They've been in business for a long time and they are willing stand behind their recommendation.
2. total wheel diameter for 245/45/17 is exactly the same as stock (25.68 inches) so the odometer/speedometer will be fine
3. tire manufacturers are very conservative in their recommendations - the last thing they want is to be sued for damages
4. exactly how wide you can go depends not only on rim width but also on the amount of sidewall you have. with a 17 inch tire and 25.68 inches of total diameter, the tire has 4.34 inches if sidewall
5. go to the CL forum, many there have 245/45/17 (although they are on 7 inch rims, this is still outside what tire manufactures recommend
6. I agree that going to 245 is aggressive but not because the tire will pop out.
What actually happens is the tire bends sooner and the flex point moves closer to the shoulder (conversely, if the rim is too wide, the bend will be closer to the rim). There is always more heat buildup at the flex point and since you are moving the flex point closer to the road, you will change how the tire wears.
But remember we're talking about an extra 30 centimeters over a 4.3 inch sidewall which is 0.6 inches on the inside and outside. Given that I am driving a Z rated tire that is designed to dissipate heat, I don't think there is an issue.
Strictly speaking, however, going to a tire this wide will result in slightly more flex in hard cornering but under medium cornering, the car is more stable due to more rubber on the road so it is a tradeoff.
7. The bottom line is the tire shop that did this for me guaranteed me that there would be no issues. They've been in business for a long time and they are willing stand behind their recommendation.
08-07-2002, 04:26 PM
#11
Originally posted by hemants
7. The bottom line is the tire shop that did this for me guaranteed me that there would be no issues. They've been in business for a long time and they are willing stand behind their recommendation.
7. The bottom line is the tire shop that did this for me guaranteed me that there would be no issues. They've been in business for a long time and they are willing stand behind their recommendation.
No flame, but if I get a written documentation from the tire manufacturer and/or the tire installer that installing 245/45 on 6.5 inch rims is safe, I'll do it and I'll even recommend it.
If not, then more power to you guys that install 245/45's on stock size wheels.
08-07-2002, 04:31 PM
#12
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Good point. It's not in writing but they get tons of referral business from both the Toronto Acura group(s) and the Audi group.
The owner is the one who gave me the guarantee so I'm not worried.
To put things in perspective, using your right hand, take a look at what 4.34 inches looks like (sidewall height).
Now with your left hand, see how big 0.6 inches is. That is how much extra each sidewall has to bend over the length of the sidewall towards the rim. I'm not trivializing it but it does put things in perspective.
The owner is the one who gave me the guarantee so I'm not worried.
To put things in perspective, using your right hand, take a look at what 4.34 inches looks like (sidewall height).
Now with your left hand, see how big 0.6 inches is. That is how much extra each sidewall has to bend over the length of the sidewall towards the rim. I'm not trivializing it but it does put things in perspective.
08-07-2002, 04:47 PM
#13
OK.
It's not to the fact that the way you put these measurements in perspective makes everything look safe; sure I can justify putting a 235/45 tire size in my wife's Maxima (it'll fit, but not recommended) but having that peace of mind that the tire won't give way because it wasn't a manufacturer's suggested tire size replacement will drive me crazy (OEM for a Max SE is 225/50/17, 7" rim).
If I'm going to be putting larger tires, I'll buy aftermarket wheels that will properly support the size of tires I want. Besides, the last thing on my mind when I'm taking fast corners or a short 120 MPH burst, is my tires giving out.
It's not to the fact that the way you put these measurements in perspective makes everything look safe; sure I can justify putting a 235/45 tire size in my wife's Maxima (it'll fit, but not recommended) but having that peace of mind that the tire won't give way because it wasn't a manufacturer's suggested tire size replacement will drive me crazy (OEM for a Max SE is 225/50/17, 7" rim).
If I'm going to be putting larger tires, I'll buy aftermarket wheels that will properly support the size of tires I want. Besides, the last thing on my mind when I'm taking fast corners or a short 120 MPH burst, is my tires giving out.
08-07-2002, 05:18 PM
#14
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Originally posted by hemants
Good point. It's not in writing but they get tons of referral business from both the Toronto Acura group(s) and the Audi group.
The owner is the one who gave me the guarantee so I'm not worried.
Good point. It's not in writing but they get tons of referral business from both the Toronto Acura group(s) and the Audi group.
The owner is the one who gave me the guarantee so I'm not worried.
08-07-2002, 07:40 PM
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Thank You Wilz, finally someone gets it..Who gives a shiat if the owner "guarantees" nothing will go wrong, WHY would you ever do anything to make your car dangerous. Maybe nothing will happen, BUT maybe something will. You just don't know, and if something does go drastically wrong, the owner of the business will definitely cover his butt by saying he didn't recommend that size. Put this into perspective, do any of us TL'ers want to risk SAFETY for a beefy tire that "may" have some extra grip
, i think not.
, i think not.
08-08-2002, 08:26 AM
#16
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You guys are missing the point.
There's nothing unsafe about it.
The worst case is that the tires will wear quicker. (but as I said, given the Z rating, I doubt it)
If you think a flat tire is dangerous then to be rational, you should IMMEDIATELY go out and replace your tires with run flat tires should you not?
There's nothing unsafe about it.
The worst case is that the tires will wear quicker. (but as I said, given the Z rating, I doubt it)
If you think a flat tire is dangerous then to be rational, you should IMMEDIATELY go out and replace your tires with run flat tires should you not?
08-08-2002, 09:03 AM
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Hey SteveB ... Ummm, how 'bout the fact that 245-width tires will look like retarded super-swampers on a 6.5" rim?
Hemants, the Z speed rating generally means the compound is softer and the sidewall is stiffer than a lower rating like H or V, so when you bring the sidewall in so much to meet the rim, it will bow the contact patch slightly and cause more wear in the center.
I would not put that size tire on my car without at least a 7.5" rim. I had 245/35/19's mounted on my wheels before I bought them to see how they looked, and though they were more flush with the rim (19 x 8") they were too tall, the 235/35/19 is the closest to the stock size, so I went with that so my speedo would be accurate.
Bottom line, it's your car, do what you want, but be reasonable so no one gets hurt. Go to www.tirerack.com and check the manufacturer's specs on the tires, the smallest rim recommended for all of the 245/45/17's they sell is 8", I could see compromising at 7.5", but 6.5" is asking for trouble.
Hemants, the Z speed rating generally means the compound is softer and the sidewall is stiffer than a lower rating like H or V, so when you bring the sidewall in so much to meet the rim, it will bow the contact patch slightly and cause more wear in the center.
I would not put that size tire on my car without at least a 7.5" rim. I had 245/35/19's mounted on my wheels before I bought them to see how they looked, and though they were more flush with the rim (19 x 8") they were too tall, the 235/35/19 is the closest to the stock size, so I went with that so my speedo would be accurate.
Bottom line, it's your car, do what you want, but be reasonable so no one gets hurt. Go to www.tirerack.com and check the manufacturer's specs on the tires, the smallest rim recommended for all of the 245/45/17's they sell is 8", I could see compromising at 7.5", but 6.5" is asking for trouble.
08-08-2002, 09:09 AM
#18
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It is possible that the contact patch may be slightly smaller but more than likely what happens is the flex point moves closer to the shoulder.
What you say about the Z rating is true but it is also a compound that is designed to dissipate heat. In fact, this is the primary characteristic that seperates a Z rated tire from an H or V rated tire.
If what you mean by "asking for trouble" is more wear in the centre of the tire then that's something I'm willing to live with.
Looks are subjective, but personally, I think my car looks much better than it did with stock tires, and without a doubt it handles better.
I'll post some larger pics when I get a chance.
What you say about the Z rating is true but it is also a compound that is designed to dissipate heat. In fact, this is the primary characteristic that seperates a Z rated tire from an H or V rated tire.
If what you mean by "asking for trouble" is more wear in the centre of the tire then that's something I'm willing to live with.
Looks are subjective, but personally, I think my car looks much better than it did with stock tires, and without a doubt it handles better.
I'll post some larger pics when I get a chance.
08-08-2002, 12:39 PM
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No rubbing here, although I'm sure I would with a drop (I have stock suspension).
FYI the recommended wheel range on the firehawks is 7.5-9 inches so no matter how you look at it, we're talking about 0.4 - 0.5 inch of extra bend for each sidewall over a 4.55 inch sidewall over what the manufacturer thinks is ideal.
A lot has to do with tire design. Other manufacturers recommend 8 - 9.5 inches for the same 245/45/17 so be careful.
FYI the recommended wheel range on the firehawks is 7.5-9 inches so no matter how you look at it, we're talking about 0.4 - 0.5 inch of extra bend for each sidewall over a 4.55 inch sidewall over what the manufacturer thinks is ideal.
A lot has to do with tire design. Other manufacturers recommend 8 - 9.5 inches for the same 245/45/17 so be careful.
08-09-2002, 01:31 AM
#22
Suzuka Master
Most "of the xxx/45-17" sizes on the CLS forum are: 235/45-17 with 225/45-17 next, and 245/45-17 last (things change and there is no way to know "for sure", so feel free to dispute this if you have contacted everyone in the last few months).
The 235/45-17 on the 7" CLS rims has been done and I did it before moving to the SSRs. Something to consider: on the 235/45-17 Toyo T1S + stock 7" rim, the alignments are "difficult". Others have no problems. As for "staying on the rim", well... technically the 235/45-17 wants a 7.5" rim minimum. I had no problems with the Toyo T1S in a 235/45-17 on a 7" stock rim (other that "possible" problems "alignment" issues that were related to being able to get some makes of calipers [used by some types of alignment gear] into the margin between the tire and the rim's flange. To be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's a "hassle" with the Toyos T1S tires and 2001-2002 CLS rims [don't know about the 2003 and/or TLS -- ok])
235/45-17 and 245/45-17s can have different tread width, section width, and sensitivity to rim width. And, the ACTUAL section width -- shown in tire spec. tables -- will change as the rim width is varied One of the members who was trying out the Dunlops (8000 or 9000 series) had problems (and this was just a 235/45-17 on a 7" OEM rim). He has some pretty bad problems and gave up on those tires -- the brand of tire is very important, and a look at 235/45-17 and 245/45-17 tire spec tables will prove to anyone that the section width and other "specs" change (for a given size) with brand, make, and model. (Have a look over on TireRack and look at all of the different high performance, ultra-high performance, max performance, all-season, and so on. And I'm talking about 235/45-17 vs. 235/45-17 and 245/45-17 vs. 245/45-17.) Perhaps some of you have noticed how some makes/brands/models of 235/45-17 look beefier than other 235/45-17s on the same exact rim!
So, there is some room to "play", but you can get one brand/make of tire that will work, and then find another that wont. This same issue effects "fit" and running issues when a car is lowered on stock and/or wider rims with varying offsets.
There has been some manufacturers (BMW for one) that have used tires on their car's that were mounted on rims that were 1/2" too narrow. (They can call the tire maker and get "tacit" approval. IN the case of the Toyos, I got a tire dealer to "go for it" and Toyo didn't panic...)
The "exact" model/make/brand of tire can have a large impact on how this works. IMO, 245/45-17 on a 6.5" rim is getting pretty close to the edge, but I'd be more scared (in a number of cases) of people running around without checking their tire pressures on a regular basis and running with too little air. And, you I'm pretty sure you can find a 235/45-17 that will have problems on a 6.5" wide rim.
The 238/45-17 is the closest match to the 215/50-17 (yes, they don't make a 238/45-17). The 245/45-17 is a tad too big and the 235/45-17 is a tad too small (approx. +/- 0.5 difference in speedo error depending on model/make/brand).
Ironically, the wider the rims get for a 235/45-17, the greater the possibility for rubbing when lowered. Most of the CLS people running 235/45-17 on STOCK 7" rims have no problems in the rub department, if they don't lower too much (1-2.x inch drop). A few members are even ok with SSRs (17x8 +48) + 235/45-17 + Comptech springs. However, one member had "problems" with the Toyo T1S 235/45-17 when used with the 17x8 +48 SSRs, Comptech lowering springs, and KONI shocks. He switched to the 225/45-17 T1S and has no rub on hard lock anymore... (Something about the Konis – bumpstop?, length?, and compression/rebound? -- who knows for sure????)
One member has been running 245/40-17 Toyo T1S on Comptech SSRs in 17x8 +48 (no lowering springs) and NEVER rubs.
Another few are running 245/45-17 on stock 7" rims, but I don't know how much they are lowered, but I haven't heard about rubbing or other problems... (I think some of the brands that worked were: Nitto 555R, S02PPs, and Firestones mentioned previously in this thread)
IMO, find something that you know works on a member's car, and be careful about "assumptions"/"extrapolations"...
$0.02
The 235/45-17 on the 7" CLS rims has been done and I did it before moving to the SSRs. Something to consider: on the 235/45-17 Toyo T1S + stock 7" rim, the alignments are "difficult". Others have no problems. As for "staying on the rim", well... technically the 235/45-17 wants a 7.5" rim minimum. I had no problems with the Toyo T1S in a 235/45-17 on a 7" stock rim (other that "possible" problems "alignment" issues that were related to being able to get some makes of calipers [used by some types of alignment gear] into the margin between the tire and the rim's flange. To be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's a "hassle" with the Toyos T1S tires and 2001-2002 CLS rims [don't know about the 2003 and/or TLS -- ok])
235/45-17 and 245/45-17s can have different tread width, section width, and sensitivity to rim width. And, the ACTUAL section width -- shown in tire spec. tables -- will change as the rim width is varied One of the members who was trying out the Dunlops (8000 or 9000 series) had problems (and this was just a 235/45-17 on a 7" OEM rim). He has some pretty bad problems and gave up on those tires -- the brand of tire is very important, and a look at 235/45-17 and 245/45-17 tire spec tables will prove to anyone that the section width and other "specs" change (for a given size) with brand, make, and model. (Have a look over on TireRack and look at all of the different high performance, ultra-high performance, max performance, all-season, and so on. And I'm talking about 235/45-17 vs. 235/45-17 and 245/45-17 vs. 245/45-17.) Perhaps some of you have noticed how some makes/brands/models of 235/45-17 look beefier than other 235/45-17s on the same exact rim!
So, there is some room to "play", but you can get one brand/make of tire that will work, and then find another that wont. This same issue effects "fit" and running issues when a car is lowered on stock and/or wider rims with varying offsets.
There has been some manufacturers (BMW for one) that have used tires on their car's that were mounted on rims that were 1/2" too narrow. (They can call the tire maker and get "tacit" approval. IN the case of the Toyos, I got a tire dealer to "go for it" and Toyo didn't panic...)
The "exact" model/make/brand of tire can have a large impact on how this works. IMO, 245/45-17 on a 6.5" rim is getting pretty close to the edge, but I'd be more scared (in a number of cases) of people running around without checking their tire pressures on a regular basis and running with too little air. And, you I'm pretty sure you can find a 235/45-17 that will have problems on a 6.5" wide rim.
The 238/45-17 is the closest match to the 215/50-17 (yes, they don't make a 238/45-17). The 245/45-17 is a tad too big and the 235/45-17 is a tad too small (approx. +/- 0.5 difference in speedo error depending on model/make/brand).
Ironically, the wider the rims get for a 235/45-17, the greater the possibility for rubbing when lowered. Most of the CLS people running 235/45-17 on STOCK 7" rims have no problems in the rub department, if they don't lower too much (1-2.x inch drop). A few members are even ok with SSRs (17x8 +48) + 235/45-17 + Comptech springs. However, one member had "problems" with the Toyo T1S 235/45-17 when used with the 17x8 +48 SSRs, Comptech lowering springs, and KONI shocks. He switched to the 225/45-17 T1S and has no rub on hard lock anymore... (Something about the Konis – bumpstop?, length?, and compression/rebound? -- who knows for sure????)
One member has been running 245/40-17 Toyo T1S on Comptech SSRs in 17x8 +48 (no lowering springs) and NEVER rubs.
Another few are running 245/45-17 on stock 7" rims, but I don't know how much they are lowered, but I haven't heard about rubbing or other problems... (I think some of the brands that worked were: Nitto 555R, S02PPs, and Firestones mentioned previously in this thread)
IMO, find something that you know works on a member's car, and be careful about "assumptions"/"extrapolations"...
$0.02
08-09-2002, 07:01 AM
#25
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Excellent post EricL. Fitment is brand specific when you go outside what manufacturers consider "ideal".
One point, however. The TL came out before the TLS and the exact diameter of stock 205/60/16 is 25.69 inches.
It is not known whether the speedo/odo for the type S was recalibrated in 2003 for the 215/50/17 tires (ie. 25.46 inches) but I'd be willing to bet that it was not.
Thus, I consider 25.69 inches to be "stock" and what the car was originally designed and calibrated for.
One point, however. The TL came out before the TLS and the exact diameter of stock 205/60/16 is 25.69 inches.
It is not known whether the speedo/odo for the type S was recalibrated in 2003 for the 215/50/17 tires (ie. 25.46 inches) but I'd be willing to bet that it was not.
Thus, I consider 25.69 inches to be "stock" and what the car was originally designed and calibrated for.
08-10-2002, 08:47 PM
#26
Idealy, 245's should go on a 8.5 inch rim not a 7. You're wrapping a 245 tire on a rim and will look like a donut...let alone kind of retarded IMO. I think 225 is pushing it and 235 is overboard, 245 is off the scale and not sure how well they'll hold up. If you want 245, get wider rims.
08-11-2002, 11:39 PM
#28
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That's probably well within specifications.
245/45/17 is way out of spec.
245/45/17 is way out of spec.
Originally posted by dj5
Honda is putting 235 70 16's on 6.5 inch rims on the Pilot
and 235 65 17's on 6.5 inch rims on the MDX.
Honda is putting 235 70 16's on 6.5 inch rims on the Pilot
and 235 65 17's on 6.5 inch rims on the MDX.
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