SpicyMikey

Well, I just got a flat with my PAX tires today. A slow leak, no big deal.

I call my Acura dealer and they say, Sorry, we don't service PAX tires anymore. Acura canceled that program. What!

I called the nearest Honda dealer and they have the machine but they certainly don't carry any RL Tires. Luckily I have a Tire Kingdom about 10 miles from here that has the machine and tire.

Hopefully it just needs a patch, but what if this was a serioius problem AND I needed a new tire AND I wasn't in the city? The fact that Acura said every dealer always stocked these tires gave me some comfort that I could get one in a pinch. Now, these tires are way more of a liability then an asset.

I'm furious

dwboston

So they don't stock them or service them anymore, but actively try to prevent people from switching to A-Spec wheels and claim that changing the tires may void the warranty. This isn't going to end well for us or Acura.

SpicyMikey

Isn't this crazy??? If Acura doesn't support the tires anymore then this has gone from anoying to a crisis. We can't drive around on tires that can't be replaced in an emergency. You can't schedule getting a flat in convenient place.

SpicyMikey

So I was about to bring the car to Tire Kingdom (about 10 miles away) and then I got annoyed again. I said to myself; Self, why should you have to do this? The car was sold to you under the agreement that these special tires were supported by Acura and had a two year road hazard warranty. Now they are telling you, sorry deal is off. They should honor that original agreement.

I called back my dealer and gave them my perspective. To my surprise, the Service manager agreed. She said this is a raw deal for you and them. She said she was shocked when she got the letter for Corporate canceling the support program. She told me to bring it in, they'll get me a loaner, and try and get it fixed for me at the local Honda dealership. They will have to order the tire since Honda won't stock it.

That was the right way to handle it. I'm glad they stepped up. Still doesn't solve the long term problem. I gotta find a way to get these tires off this car in the near future or possibly trade it in. I'm not comfortable any longer driving around outside the city on these tires

Chas2

So true!

Interesting.

Just for grins I called my dealer. Got the receptionist, said I had a question about PAX tires. Got routed to Parts. I said I read an article where Michelin is no longer developing PAX tires. What is the position on getting a replacement. That is true. It is not clear what the outcome of this is. I would call Customer Care. I do not have a PAX tire in stock, and we would have to find some way to mount it. I would call Customer Care.

Using my search experience in December 07, where I dug up the article on Michelin halting development in mind, I called Customer Care, and they did the VIN, name, address, phone number, etc. then asked me the mileage on the car, and finally asked how they could help. I asked the same question, and was given a mild questioning. Who is your dealer? Pohanka Acura. Where did you read this? On the internet. What site? I do not remember, but I think it was an automotive news site (I later dug it up, and it was Forbes). Were you emailed a link? No. How did you find it? I occassionally search on PAX tires to see what is happening, and I was especially interested in seeing if there were any new high performance alternatives to the current tires. OK, I see, please hold while I verify information.

I was put on hold for some time and she came back and said that the information was not correct, that Michelin is still supporting the PAX tires, and that I should go to the Michelin site for support. I said I have done that and most of the dealers are Honda dealers who have the machines, but not the tires. So what do I do if I get a flat. She repeated my response, and then said I should go to the Michelin site, and get repair service preferably through a Michelin dealer, and not a Honda dealer, because the Michelin dealer will have access to the tires. Anything else I can do for you?

I asked about replacing the PAX tires with standard wheels and tires, however expensive that might be, and she said yes, you can do that, no problem.

I thanked her and hung up.

SpicyMikey

Interesting story. It's a joke. I can't say I'm surprised. We're just caught between a corporate decision based on economics. Someone will have to make a decision which is cheaper; piss off a few thousand Acura RL owners with PAX tires, or help us out and keep us as customers. I think they will cut us loose and tell us to have a nice day. We'll see.

In the meantime, when I dropped off the car today at the dealer I asked him to look into my options for replacing the wheels and tires. I told him I hear conflicting stories on the options for that. He said he'd look into it.

Chas2

I fear that you are correct. I think we few thousand PAX users will be booted into wild blue yonder and left to fend for ourselves.

I think if they do this, it will be a poor decision for those that actually bought the highest level trim of their flagship car, and who are likely to be among a pool of repeat buyers to do the same when the FMC comes out. Unfortunately, lately I have been increasingly disappointed with Acura and their dealer network, something I HATE to say, since I have been a Honda fan boy for years, since being driven around as a kid in my Dad's S-800.

lland

I just got off the phone with Acura. After searching his database for recent information, the rep told me (for what it's worth) that the information I had (Acura's discontinuing support of PAX) was incorrect. He also said that if Acura did discontinue support for a product, they would come up with a suitable replacement.

I then called my dealer and mentioned my concerns to my service guy. He said he didn't know anything about it and in fact, just a couple of weeks ago had the (pretty expensive) PAX servicing equipment installed since PAX tire owners may soon be needing replacements and out of warranty service. Made me feel a bit better. Perhaps it is individual dealers who are deciding it's more economical to piss off a few owners rather than deal with the expense and hassles of servicing PAX tires.

LL

SpicyMikey

Could be. But I can't imagine why a dealer would want to piss off their RL owners at the minimal cost of keeping a few PAX tires in stock. Maybe both dealers are right. Maybe they've discontinued this "tire swap" program to force the dealers hand and make them get the tire changers. Unfortunately, my dealer opted not to get the changer.

Either way, it's gone from bad to worse.

SpicyMikey

And yet the story gets worse still.....

The dealer called me before. Said they took the car over to the local Honda dealer. They concluded the tire needed to be replaced. However they said the tire won't come in for 10 days!!!! Even the Acura guys said that's ridiculous and called Tire Kingdom in town. They said they don't have one either but can get one in two days. They are going with Tire Kingdom.

Luckily my dealer really stepped up here and is taking care of me by handling this mess for me while I have a loaner. However, they could have told me to deal with this on my own.

This is ugly. The safety net that Acura provided is gone. I'm in the 4th most populated state in the country and there's no PAX tires immediately available. What if I was on a road trip?

kmcheney

I agree that this is a mess. Acura needs to take care of it's customers. I suppose they are trying to sort this out legally and not assume liability for a problem that Michelin may have caused by killing the PAX program going forward.

Nonetheless, I hope you write Acura to explain just how this is playing out and informing them that PAX owners need a solution NOW. It makes me very hesitant and concerned to take this fine car on any kind of trip. I frequently travel long distances by car and now I'll have the fear of a simple flat tire totally screwing up a trip.

dwboston

Agreed that it's ugly, but what about the PAX hotline at Michelin? They are supposed to get you a replacement tire within 12 hours if you aren't near a service center. I'd call 1-877-PAX-TIRE and complain abut having to wait 2 days. Road hazards are also covered for the first 2 years.

"Q: What happens if a driver with a flat can't get to a car or Michelin authorized servicing dealer?
A: When a consumer calls the toll-free number, 1-877-PAX-TIRE, Michelin will advise the consumer on how to service their PAX System tire. If a car dealer or a Michelin- authorized servicing dealer is not within the recommended driving range for a deflated tire, Michelin will direct the consumer to drive to a safe location and then initiate a rapid-response delivery plan, rushing a complete PAX System wheel/tire assembly to that location within 12 hours of notification of the service request."

SpicyMikey

Yep, I know about that claim. I always felt that was going to be bullshit when I first heard it. Michelin has screwed this whole PAX thing up from the start. I would never have wanted to count on them to be there when I needed them.

The only thing that ever made me feel comfortable was the fact that Acura had a tire swap program in place and always stocked teh tires. That's the only reason I decided to go with the tires. Now with that gone I'm concerned. I'm either going to replace the tires and wheels OR maybe hold on for another 6 months and trade this in. I only have a 4 year loan so I shouldn't be upside down for too much longer. I bought the car 10 months ago.

dwboston

You have to call the hotline first. I'd call them and give them a piece of my mind for having to wait two days for a tire and refer them to their warranty and their website claims.

neuronbob

I take it you guys have called ACS to vent? This is NOT cool.

Either Acura needs to officially say "you can replace these with regular wheels/tires" or needs to provide the dealers with replacements.

SpicyMikey

I personally didn't call ACS. Why bother? My experience tells me it won't help. Besides, the dealer stepped up for me in this instance. Torrance knows perfectly well the problem they've created. They don't need me to remind them.

Having said that, if Acura doesn't come up with a program to migrate away from these tires in the next 6 months, then I'll be disappointed and be forced to trade this car in. I suspect they will do something or possibly face a slew of lawsuits

Chas2

It would be interesting for them to do that officially.

I asked the woman I spoke with at ACS about replacing the PAX tires with standard wheels and tires, and she said yes, you can do that, no problem. I wonder if they would do that in writing. Of course it does not address the cost of getting a spare in the car and the cost of new wheels.

SpicyMikey

My dealer called me a little while ago and said the car is ready. I just have to go pick it up now.

I asked my service advisor to look into my options for getting these tires off the car. But he's off today so I'll probably have to wait to get that answer.

I guess I could gamble a little while longer and keep the tires to see if anything changes and Acura reinstates some sort of program (I still have another year left on this 2 year warranty). However, I'm betting Acura won't do anything more with these tires. In fact, I'd venture to guess availability will only get worse from this point on. That's not good since it took me 2 1/2 days to get a flat fixed. ugh

geronimomoe

Just imagine if you're an Odyssey Touring owner with the Pax tires... I'm sure there are far more Odyssey Touring's out there than RL CMBS/Pax owners....

If Honda/Acura is truly going to stop supporting the Pax system, can you imagine the uproar??? Wow..

Chuck091279

Yeah, I've read some posts over on automotive.com re: Touring owners and their issues with PAX. Eeeeeek - they are NOT happy.

On another note, I saw an RL today, with CMBS on the road, definitely 17" stock tires. I wish they offer a program, like a trade in, where you buy the new tires, and they give you the rims as replacements + 1/2 off spare setup or something. I don't know, here's to wishin! Still the best car I've ever driven.