neuronbob

This is a poll version of this old thread, just for chuckles:

How come the new RL is not selling that well? What would you like to see changed?

You can choose more than one answer. Now that we know that Acura is changing the RL, maybe we can figure out what our dream RL is. Hey, I guess we can give Acura a hand.... If I've left something out, please point it out. Post explanations for your answers below.

V6 with more low-end torque
V6 diesel option
V8 engine option
6-speed transmission
8-speed transmission (ala Lexus LS460)
FWD option (in addition to SH-AWD)
RWD option (in addition to SH-AWD)
Touch screen navi
Keep current navi, with more features
Cooled/ventilated seats
Larger trunk
More rear seat room
Sporty suspension option
Luxury (soft) suspension option
18" wheels standard

Rexorg

19" wheels
Bose Personal Surround with the speakers (15 total, including two subs) in the seats
SVC
HD AM Radio
RDS Radio Display
Headlight washers
LED DRLs
Heated/Cooled Cupholders
Blind spot monitor
Satellite based navi
Rain sensing beam-type wipers
Heads-up Display
Real wood steering wheel
Fog lights than can be used without the headlights

William4

my list would be (in order):

Don't screw up the Nav system. I love that nothing is locked out while the vehicle is in motion. This is the *sole* reason why I chose the Acura over the Lexus. Also, I like that it isn't touchscreen. I owned a 2004 Acura TL for a couple years and I have to admit that I like the Nav system in the 2006 Acura RL much better. Fingerprints gross me out.

More advanced Adaptive Cruise Control (works at slower speeds, brings car to a complete stop).

Built in memory card slot for music (like the Civic has), but it has to be better than the one in the Civic. The Civic system has the worst "random" mode I've ever seen, it plays the same songs every time you start your car. Also, the Civic system takes over a minute to catalog the card (if the card is big) before it will start playing - every time you start your car.

Head Up Display (like the Corvette, Cadillac STS, some Pontiacs, some BMWs, etc.). My Corvette from 8 years ago had this, so this isn't anything new. Even the Pontiac Grand Prix from 7 years ago had this. Or, at least give me a cool looking digital speedo like the Civic has.

A "miles until empty" readout that actually works. I don't care about how many "miles until 3 gallons left". There's no excuse for how lame the current system is. I had a Corvette in 1983 that did this perfectly and even displayed 1/10ths of a mile. That was over 20 years ago!!!

Front and rear cameras for parking (and side cameras would be great too).

Bigger trunk (with a bigger opening). All car companies (including Acura) like to make the trunk lid taller in order to claim they have more cubic feet of trunk space. The extra space isn't useable and only just makes it hard to see out the back. Even "square feet" instead of "cubic feet" would be misleading because they count all the nooks and crannies. Just tell me what is the largest rectangular piece of drywall I can fit in the trunk (and through the trunk opening). That would be much more meaningful than "cubic feet".

Night vision.

Improve the Nav system. When looking up something by name, you need to eliminate "catagories" and just list ALL the results -- sorted by distance. Also, the "name" should really just be a keyword(s) that can be anywhere in the name (not only at the beginning). Oh, and sometimes the routing is really stupid.

Better sounding stereo.

Better Bluetooth (uses Nav screen, caller id shows name from address book).

Blindspot monitor.

Better paint. I've owned over a dozen new cars in my day, and the paint on my 2006 RL is the worst that I've ever experienced. I can't even wash the car without adding more scratches. It's just terrible.

Option for more soundproofing and softer ride. I'll drive my Corvette when I'm in a sporty mood.

I'd like to be able to see my tire pressure without turning off adaptive cruise control

p.s. I know I'm in the minority on this but I hate wood steering wheels. I don't mind if there's an option for a wood wheel, but please make sure the car is also available without it. Don't make it mandatory as part of a package.

RLuvr08

How about a 2 door manual transmission option? The tranny would be the ultimate for me.

lland

Headlamp washers
Heated steering wheel
Download phone contacts
Better Ipod interface

LL

TSX69

U covered my current pet peeve about the RL: no AC seats like in Canada.

I know Honda seems to be going the way of diesels & fuel cells but what about a hybrid option? Honda has them already & other luxury brands have them already or will have them ... perhaps the flagship should too?

I have heard some people mention turbo but that might fall under the v6 w/ more low end torque ...

rettenhu

V6 with more low-end torque: I suppose a V8 OPTION would be fine but I'll take the added economy of a V6 and easily settle for just a tad more pep on the low-end side for the V6

6-speed transmission: 8-speed would be even nicer I suppose

Change to Touch-screen Navi: Pointing is faster, easier and arguably safer than than the current knob

Cooled or ventilated seats: I live in NJ and love my black interior... except on those hot summer days!

Larger trunk: need more room for golf clubs, etc.

18" wheels: in chrome please, with some quiter all-season tires

I think the engine, FWD/RWD and suspension suggestions as OPTIONS would be fine and give the buyer the choice to tweak as wanted

neuronbob

Very interesting results so far. The most popular recommended features so far are

Cooled or ventilated seats
6-speed tranny
Current navi but with more features
18" wheels standard
V8 option

Let's see how this turns out as the weekend rolls on...

JeffS

Good thread Bob!

g_vros77

Cooled or ventilated seats should already be included in US spec cars. :sigh:

Also, I vote for a V6 diesel. A good gas mileage with more torque. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I'd like that very much.

jkuniverse

Ditto... plus the following

hybrid option
heated steering wheel
dvd player
6 or more speed transmission
better sunroof - too noisy

Chas2

No hybrid. Too much weight and room taken up by the SHAWD already, for little gain. I think the car is too heavy for a hybrid, and the cost would astronomical. Look at the Lexus LS600 at a cool $112K. Much as I hate to say so, while much simpler than the Toyota, I think the Honda IMA is a dead end technology, good for what it does now, but not the answer. While it can run all electric in its latest configuration, the IMA also cranks all the engine internals as well...talk about a waste of precious battery power. I think adding an IMA in the V6 on top of the SHAWD is going to make the car weigh in Lincoln town car territory

If you want to do that ecological thing, now, I think a direct injection diesel/turbo diesel and 6+ speed transmission is the way to go for now until fuel cells feasible in 10-20 years.

neuronbob

I agree, hybrids are not where Honda is going anyway. The FCX reveals Honda's future fuel direction.

wstr75

First gear is a stump puller, a granny gear. A six speed tranny that intuitively understands sudden acceleration input in the 20 to 45 mph range is needed. I sometimes get myself in trouble when pulling around trucks just after stoplights when there's only a small opening in the left lane traffic. sometimes wonder if the first gear is a Honda part also shared in the MDX/Pilot tranny which would be plausible given that the MDX is designed to pull 3500 - 5000 pound trailers from a stop.

I'd like to switch off cylinders like the Odyssey for better highway gas mileage. A start-stop hybrid mode akin to the BMW/GM system would also make sense for city driving.

wstr75

Oh, and make my engine a 4.0 liter V-6 with state of the art valve timing and valve lift controls.

JeffS

I was thinking the same thing and/or a turbo version of the 3.5 as an optional engine.

neuronbob

Would you want to deal with turbo lag in a midsize luxury car? I'm not sure I would.

JeffS

I was kind of thinking Acura could go the same route BMW did and have a twin turbo. One that is available just off idle to get you going and then the second one kicks in to provide mid and upper range power. I think this is how the twin turbo works in the 3 Series...

SpicyMikey

Great list. I checked off many of the options. I also wish they would offer a "winter" package that bundled things like heated seats and heated leather rapped steering wheels, etc. Some car manufacturers do that. There's a large area of the country that does NOT need that stuff and dealers could order cars without that package here in Florida.

neuronbob

That's a good thought, Mikey. That would require Acura/Honda to go against its current thinking, which is to provide as few options as possible, though. Are they willing?

SpicyMikey

Probably not. But it would be nice.

lumpulus

Or you can do the variable flow turbo like the RDX has.

SpicyMikey

How well (smooth) does that RDX turbo work? Anyone ever drive one? When I think of turbos I always think of spikey power curves and annoying reaction delays.

elessar

Touch-screen Navi is the only thing on the list that I'd vote for, since I'm used to it on my TL. Things I'd add:

- Full (USB) iPod integration
- Hard drive based music system that can rip CDs, like the Caddy CTS (and a lot of other new cars lately, it seems)
- Rain sensing wipers... I was surprised to see that those aren't there to begin with!

If those things are included in the face lift, I may wait and get a new one next year instead of a CPO '06, which is my current plan. I like everything else about it. Not bothered by the size, power, etc.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Realistically, the RDX turbo works quite well. But, combine it with the DBW throttle and it creates problems with the perception of lag, even if there is virtually none.

Honestly, the one thing I would love to see is a manual transmission option with SH-AWD. I know the trend is away from manuals in more "luxury" cars, but there are still a few of us that love the driver interaction required for an MT car.

Give me an RL with a compact 4.4L V8 making 400+ bhp and 350+ lb-ft of torque with a 6-speed manual transmission and SH-AWD in a car that is the same size as the current RL and price it in the $60k range and I would be a happy camper.

mg7726

i want:

19" wheels
6-speed DSG
folding rear seats

Mike_TX

What's interesting to me is that of the things Bob suggested (all reasonable and do-able), only 3 stand out as garnering more than 10% interest on this board ... 6-spd tranny, cooled seats and 18" wheels.

NONE of these things addresses what Acura salespeople tell us time and time again potential buyers complain about:

- Needs more room in the back seat and trunk
- Needs more power

So - are the RL owners on this board not representative of the market Acura NEEDS to reach? Do we therefore symbolize Acura's failure with the RL?

Apparently so, since we bought the car like it is, and most people didn't. But I hope Acura doesn't think we wouldn't like some of the things buyers are demanding and Acura hasn't yet served up!

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CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Realistically, I think Acura does not need to make the RL larger, but rather create a completely separate model above the RL with V8 power and RWD/SH-AWD. The RL is a great car to compete against the 5-series, A6, E-class size class and I would like to see it stay that way. A whole new model positioned all the way at the stratospheric end of the price range, designed from the ground up with that target demographic in mind, will better serve the buyers in that market.

SpicyMikey

I agree they should make something above the RL. A 7 series long-body killer in that $80k range would do amazing things for brand recognition and would help sales of ALL their cars. There's nothing wrong with the RL except the fact that it's not a flagship class sedan. They wouldn't sell a hell of a lot, but then again, BMW doesn't sell a lot of 750Li's either. It benefits the whole line in other ways.

Having said that, I think the RL would probably benefit from growing 3-4 inches and getting a v8 option. It's too similar to the TL. The RL has more technology, is better built, and has a more refined look, but, they are still too close in size and power and get cross shopped too much. I think that's part of the problem with the sales. Kind of like how the Lexus ES draws tons of sales away from the GS.

Mike_TX

I don't know , Mikey - if people laugh at $50,000 Acuras, they'd probably pass out in hysteria at an $80,000 one.

Much as we hate to say it, Acura has firmly established itself as the "upscale Honda". I think they know that, and are sticking with the formula of offering a lot for a little less than the "real" luxury brands. So far, they've accomplished that by staying with 6-cyl. engines and a smaller overall product. But the ante is moving up, so they can offer more while still staying under the $60,000 barrier.

Unfortunately, I don't think they see that as being a 7-series fighter. BMW sells a lot of 7-series around the world, but Acura isn't global enough yet to amortize the costs of a high-roller flagship.

So I think the best we can expect is a slightly larger RL, and no flagship above that.

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SpicyMikey

I hear you. We actually spent considerable time in other threads this summer talking about what market Honda was capable of reaching with this brand. No question that the name "Acura" is not associated with a full size luxury vehicle. But that's by design. And I think the design is wrong. I think they are hurting themselves by stay with a partial lineup. They need to fill it out with a full size lux sedan to compete with the LS, 7, etc. They also probably need a coupe version of their TL and TSX. Initially the sales would be slow for these new items. But within a couple years the perception would change if the products were good and everyone would forget who the "old" Acura was.

Can we expect them to do it? Odds are against it. Should they do it? I think so.

Mike_TX

Good points. If Honda weren't so rooted in Civics and Accords, they might see the wisdom in that strategy.

But then again, M-B, BMW and even Audi don't have a "Civic" in their lineup. So maybe it's just a matter of choosing your playing field and playing it. And you have to admit Honda plays its particular field pretty well, so maybe we're trying to make them into something they're not.

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halfaznguy87

Haha.. The RL is in a class of its own. I've been trying for years to classify it.. MRSP wise its in the mid-level, but it actually sells for it's more entry... Feature wise its more entry. Quality wise, now with the new CTS and ES, it's more entry.. Handling -I'll give it mid... If we can create a class between entry and mid everyone would be happy, the RL would finally belong...

Here's my opinion on how to save the RL. I was reading my Forbes mag on Chrysler and the changes it's going through. Now that the company has gone private, changes that were needed are finally happening. One example was approving LEDs for Dodge vehicles. An engineer explained back when Daimler ran things, LEDs to get approved would have taken months of meetings and reports. Under private, the okay was given in less then a week. I'm sure they are people in Honda who know what to do with the RL (and Acura) but politics kill a lot of good ideas. Take it private!!! Okay I know this probably won't happen but it's a good idea??

What I would like to see in the RL...
1. Heat/cooling seats
2. At least 18inch wheels
3. Use real wood please, I know plastics are doing wonders these days but really c'mon..
4. bump the HP up a little to keep the 300 club happy..
5. Both fronts seats should be at least 10 way power adjustable..
6. Quality is good but lesser cars are catching up. CTS has leather on their dashes now..
7. Offer more exterior and interior combos and different wood selections..
8. The RL looks good but I know they could have done better..

If they do these things I think the RL would be at least on par with its intended competition.
Then from there we can start thinking ultra level class..

johnnykuz

A V8, larger trunk. and 18" wheels.

johnnykuz

neuronbob

You guys bring up a good point in leaving the RL alone other than some performance improvements so it becomes the 5-series fighter. Acura REALLY needs a car above the RL to attract those with the income to support such a car. They don't need a 7-series fighter (the 7-series is selling very slowly for a BMW lately), but a Lexus LS460-fighter.

Then they need to fricken market the hell out of that puppy.

My ideal Acura lineup:

Cars:
TSX (4-banger base, 4-banger turbo option)/coupe--entry model
TL (3.5 l FWD base, SH-AWD option, 3.7 l TL-S option)/coupe--3-series fighter
RL (3.7 l FWD base, SH-AWD option, 4.6 l V8 RL-S SH-AWD no holds barred option)--5-series fighter
XL (Big-assed, no-holds barred RWD car with 4.6 l V8 engine, has every option imaginable)--Lex LS460-fighter
NSX--I want to buy/lease one before I die, please!

Trucks:
RDX (please make it a V6 already, maybe a 3.2 or 3.5)
MDX (no changes)
XLX (same as XL but SUV)

larrynimmo

you talk about real wood...my car is 07 non-tech...i have fake wood or plood...outside of this forum no one knows that my wood isn't real...please keep the secret. (my nav is real)

Mike_TX

To Halfazn - you are right enough about many things in your post, but I have to correct you on a couple of things:

- The wood in most RL's IS real (exception is non-Tech - base - models in '07 and '08, and door trim).

- The leather on the dash of the CTS isn't leather - it's vinyl. Which is a good thing, since leather on dashboards is subjected to too much heat and UV, and it cracks in short order.

As for Chrysler, the private investment group is moving fast, but that's mainly because they want to dress it up and sell it. They're in active talks with the Chinese and others right now, so you probably won't recognize Chrysler-Dodge in a few years. In fact, it may be owned by Chery Motors of China.

I don't think I want that to happen to Acura!

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William4

Perfect!!! I'd love to see that lineup! I'd be first in line for a XL and a NSX. My only beef is that I can't stand all these stupid initials instead of actual car names. I remember back when I used to be pissed off about some of the cars having fake names (names that aren't actual words in the dictionary), but now I long for those days. These stupid initials just drive me nuts! I even prefer those stupid numbers (911, 535, 308, etc...) over the stupid initials. However, nothing is lamer that combining a stupid number with a stupid initial (like 535i or LS460).

larrynimmo

what kind of logo is "william4" does that signify four wheel drive?...I like the letters with number combinations...."TL 3.2"...ES350"...so what would you suggest we call the new Acura models...Edsels...numbers and letters show heritage and are generally accepted. If you have to have names, you can buy a Taurus, or a Malibu, or would you prefer a Charger. None for me thanks, I'll take my RL any day. (even if there are no numbers with it)

Mike_TX

Totally with you, Larry - especially when the letters/numbers MEAN something, like the general style of car and the engine size.

Now, numerals with little or no current meaning do bother me, since they're confusing (a BMW 528, for instance, no longer has a 2.8-liter engine). But designations like 3.2TL and LS460 tell you a lot more about the car than vague names like "Montego" and "Camaro".

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