I have really enjoyed reading this forum. You guys are a class act and have very interesting and intelligent dialogue about your cars. Clearly you guys are passionate about your RLs. This is one of the best auto forums on the web. For me it was just not meant to be. Having almost bought one if not for a bad test drive experience to waiting for the 08s only to find out that the price increased and nothing changed, not even a stitch of trim, I have given up.

I think those that jumped on the large incentives got a great deal. A good car and time to enjoy it. With no changes and a bump in MRSP, I feel the deals will not be as good since the car will be one more year closer to FMC.

So instead I ordered a 2008 Lexus GS AWD. You know for 50 large, one would think I could find a car that wowed me. Funny, I did kinda like the new S80 with the V8, but it was bit mushy and the pop up Nav an after thought. Part of the reason I bought the Lexus was that I felt that it was the safest for trade in value as I could be in the market again in a couple of years. They also gave me a pretty good deal. You know I do have second thoughts...but it's done.

Who knows, maybe I’ll see you guys back here as a next gen RL owner. Will pop in to read, but unfortunately not as an RL owner.

Enjoy your RLs!!!

 

Another one turns to the dark side!

Actually, not a bad decision IMO. Glad you resisted going for the S80. Might have regreted that one. I seriously looked at the GS myself but I wanted the extra goodies the top line RL offered. Good luck with your GS. You can't really go wrong between Lexus and Acura.

 

Thanks for the update, noobie! Maybe in a couple of years when you're ready for your next car, the 3G RL will be ready and waiting for you. And the Lex will have enough residual value that you can use it as your down payment.

 

Noobie - Sorry you got tripped up on the test drive. As I've noted before, almost without exception, cars at this level are engineering marvels, and much rests on personal tastes. I know you did a lot of research, but I hope you didn't miss the Forbes article Safest Cars 2007 (http://www.forbes.com/2007/05/11/car...4safecars.html) .... the top three were Audi A-4, Saab 9-3, and the RL. And of these, only the RL had perfect scores in all tested categories... Cons. Reports accident avoidance capabilities and the Dept of Transportation (NHTSA) and the Insurance Inst. for Highway Safety across-the- board crash tests, and the Highway Loss Data Institute frequency of insurance injury-claim filings. Volvo - which makes a market on its safety claims - was not there, and neither did I see the Lexus GL AWD.

Blows my mind that Acura RL advertising executives don't toot their own horn a little - of course, they hardly advertise the RL, period. Perhaps there is no marketing department at Acura?

To each his own but for me, the combination of achieving perfect scores on crash tests and accident avoidance, plus the handling of AWD makes the RL an unbeatable car.

 

I can't call you crazy since i took weeks to decide between the two (I had a 03 gs300 before)

But i eventually went the RL way Good luck it's a great car as well

 

yea but the GS is a good decision also. No mistakes made. Like I said, I would have been more surprised if he bought that S80. That would have left me scratching my head

 

Good luck with your choice. I don't think you could go wrong with either car!!

 

That's a classy farewell, noobie ... no snotty remarks and no cheap shots.

I considered the GS350 myself (although not AWD), and it drives and handles like a dream. I guess what disappointed me was the tight feeling in the cab (especially in the rear), and the small trunk, since we sometimes take my mother-in-law on road trips with us. But those things aren't as important to some people as to others.

Bottom line is that you are getting a fine car, with a fine dealer network and customer service behind it, so it's hard to go wrong!

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.

 

My mother in law is very small. She fits in my RL trunk with enough room for two overnight bags

 

Gorgeous car. I was torn for a while. Loved (still do) the exterior lines of the GS (really like the new L Finesse design), but I fell in love with the interior of the RL. The fact that the VR is so much better (at least it was when I was shopping the GS 300), and the fact that the Nav doesn't lock you out were bonuses.

You'll be very happy with it I'm sure. Good luck.

 

The RL and the GS were neck-and-neck for us. I felt I could live with the GS. But I wanted to live with RL!

Either car is a terrific machine that you won't regret owning. And the Lexus will probably have better resale and a nicer dealer experience (which already swayed you from Acura). Keep us posted as you reach some milestones.

Rob144

 

I was torn between the GS 300 AWD and the RL also. For me, the GS was to tight and being 6'1", I felt cramped. Nice car though...

Good Luck with the GS. As mentioned, you can't go wrong with a Lexus or Acura.

 

GS350 right? Those are sweet cars! Why doesn't the GS have LED taillights though?

 

You are so bad.

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You know if Acura had touched up the 08, I would have been all over it. Cooled seats, CMBS without PAX and a set of RonJons and I would have been a happy camper. I could overlook the dealer service and chock it up to one bad sales guy.

I had to have an 08 since I only drive 5000 miles a year and depreciation would have killed me at this point. I actually almost bought a LS460, but having that much car depreciating in my garage did not make sense. Plus I'm not that old!

Phil: I did look extensively at safety as it is very important. The reason the Lexus doesn't get mentioned is because the NHTSA hasn't tested it yet. The IIHS has and it scores as well as the RL. The videos are available on CR for both front and side impact and it does very well. The GS has four more airbags than the RL, two for the knees in dash and two rear side bags. I think the GS is just as safe as the RL.

Mike: I agree with you on the cramped quarters. That was biggest hang up about the car. I had to take an extended test drive just to be sure. And BTW, I will most likely join you on the MDX front. Will probably trade my 02 for an 08 in October or November.

This is my favorite auto forum. It's more sophisticated that the other one I will "belong" to. Its just not the same not being an owner. I'm missing something.

Bob: You run a great shop and Spicey you remind me of myself so much sometimes, it's scary.

Hope you don't mind if I pop around once in awhile.

 

Enjoy the Lexus. Just got back from a test drive of the GS and its nice, but when I got back in the RL I made me realize how good the Rl is. I preferred the more sporty ride of the Rl. The Rl makes it very hard to switch once you own one. The Audi 6 I tried did not cut the mustered either. Lease is up soon so I just have to wait till the new RL comes out. There is nothing else for me and the lady to test drive.

 

Noobie.... point taken. Congratulations on your purchase of a great car.

 

Hopefully they will add an MDX category on Acurazine by then

 

What is wrong with the Volvo S80? It's on my list of possible replacements for my '05RL, and except for any other vehicle not being a Honda product, I'm quite impressed with the S80 update. It seems to be well thought out, down to dimples in the door jambs for mounting the roof rack. My own impression is that the RL is in a class of its own, but so is the S80. It also has some of what posters on this site are pining away for, i.e. a V8.

FWIW, I'm also considering getting a fresh copy of the RL, along with a new MDX, which by the way has gotten an excellent review by Consumer Reports. My original goal was to pay for the RL, which has been accomplished, and get a Honda truck. But with the reliability of my '05RL questionable after my recent breakdown and very expensive repair, and it being out of warranty, I'm having to consider replacing it instead of keeping the car long term and pursuing other vehicles for the stable.

BTW, I'm not picking on you, but I've noticed a decided anti-Volvo bias here in several posts and from several sources.

I drove Volvos for 25 years, beginning in 1966, with my old 1965 122S, which is languishing under a tree on my place awaiting restoration somewhere down the road when I have the time.

Fred

'05RL +83,000 miles (driving the '94 Honda Accord more lately)
delivery June, 2005

 

Maybe we'll see you hugging Chip Foose on Overhaulin' some day?

 

Hey Fred, don't get your feathers all ruffled. No offense to those who like Volvo's. it's a fine car, the S80 V8 just doesn't seem like an alternative to Noobile who was seriously considering an RL and was drawn to the amenities. The Lexus GS made more sense. That's all I was trying to say.

Now, what's "wrong" with the S80 v8 for ME? I get nervous about the reliability data I read sometimes, it's a bit tighter inside then the RL but several thousand more (even the v6 is less value when you factor in the current $3500 incentive). Even with the slightly higher price, it didn't seem to have all the "lux" ammenities that the Acura and Lexus offer when I looked at it briefly in the spring.

Having said that, some reviews I've read on the latest S80 where more upbeat. It's certainly an option for buyers looking for a upper $40-50k sedan.

 

Fred,

Since the S80 test drive is still fresh in my mind, here are my thoughts. I actually liked the car more than I thought I would. The perforated leather was nice and seats were classic Volvo, first rate. I don’t think the V6 is competitive in this segment so I was only focused on the V8. It has a nice throaty growl to it when you start it up, a big surprise. It is responsive with good low end torque, however, it won’t push you back in the seat. It is a very quiet car and you are well isolated from the road… too isolated. The steering is numb and the ride is very mushy and floaty. Because of this, the sport package is a must for me. The navigation is bit primitive. It pops up from the dash by command only and it has no touch screen or VR. Not as bad as the Mercedes system, but way behind the Japanese. Back seat was a bit tight, but no more so than the RL.

The thing that really killed it was price. Adding the nav and keyless entry and sport to make it on par with other cars I was looking at, pushed the list to $56K with a purchase price at around $52 or $53. Not bad for a V8, but I don’t think this car competes well with the German V8s or the new Japanese V8s like in the new GS460 for that matter. The GS350 I ordered has the most powerful V6 in its class right now and is only a few HP and ftlbs short of the Volvo 8. Sure the Volvo has a flatter torque curve, but in driving it was close enough for me to consider them a heads up competitor. I don’t think the V6 Volvo competes well unless you just want to putt around in a nice cushy safe car. First year Volvo reliability is suspect as well. Since the fully loaded GS350 was thousands less and was a 08, it wasn’t even close. If the V8 Volvo was priced closer to RL, I would chose it, if only for the torque and throttle response of the V8, at over $10K more it’s a no brainer; RL wins hands down.

In my opinion Volvo has always suffered from under powering their vehicles, unless you get a special edition souped up turbo one. I made the mistake of buying a 5 cylinder once. The new V8s are a step in the right direction, but still behind the competition.

 

Noobie, a couple of questions: Did you look at the m35x or 535xi ? If so, I'd like to hear your impressions. I have the 05 RL also, and your comparison to our car would be appreciated. I've been agonizing over my next car purchase for months now (probably cause I'll miss my RL but thats another story). Also, when do the 08 GS's show up in the show rooms?

 

GS has LED taillights.

For the original poster, great choice. I like the GS but I like the RL even more.

Btw, I love the license plate lights on the GS...or on any other Lexus for that matter.

Good luck.

 

You can swap out the rl's license plate lights for white led's

 

wow you guys make it simple to trade cars easily, must be making lots of money, i've had my legend since '95, once i get a real job, i'll buy me a 03 RL. or a 6 Speed Legend, Well Lexus is a good car, my aunt had LS400 back in the days... now she drives a Toyota Solora.. It would be nice tuning the new IS 250

 

Also I don't think the resale value of the Volvo is anywhere near the Lexus.

 

Dr Decatherm:

As Phil234 said, these are all fine vehicles with their pluses and minuses. I suspect you have a tough time, as do many, myself included, since no one vehicle jumps outs head and shoulders above the others. I will summarize my pros and cons about the cars you mentioned.

I really liked the M35x and came very close to buying one. It has great road feel and a responsive drive train. Interior space is tops and trunk is large, but opening is small. Technology is well executed. It is very fun to drive. The cons to me are the lack of sixth gear and high revs at cruising speed coupled with more noise and a rougher ride. While I really enjoyed the sport of the car, I will confess, I lean towards luxury more now. I was concerned in the long term if I would grow tired of the rougher and nosier ride. The other intangible was that the M is now underpowered compared to the G. I did not want to buy a M35 only to have a M37 released next year. Also the wood, although very nice, was too much wood for me.

The BMW is the driving machine. It has great road feel and handling with a smooth ride. On the down side, the interior is cheap for the class, I-drive, need I say more and option creep prices it out at a whopping high 50s. The main reason I passed was the first year for the twin turbo engine. I did no want to be a Guinea Pig for reliability on the motor. Having owned a turbo before, I was not inclined to care for it as such with idling to cool the turbos after hard or long driving and more frequent oil changes. Even the BMW sale guy admitted the engine would likely be trouble after warranty period. However for a lease under warranty, this would be a top pick as BMW has good lease deals.

A car I really looked at hard, which will make Spicey sick, was the E350. It has the best combination of road feel and luxury for me and I like the styling. Pricing is better if you know what to ask for. You can get $2K below invoice. Initial reliability reports on the 07 are much better. But, it has vinyl seats as standard and comparably equipped, still cost over 50. The nav in MB has to be one of the worst ever. You can’t select an address, only a range of numbers after toggling through many menus. Uggg.

In the end I would have been happy with any of them. It was just a few points that tipped the scale to Lexus;

The great Lexus dealer experience with a service department open to 11PM seven days a week and no appointments and loaners. The luxury ride of Lexus and most importantly, my wife liked the GS the best and the RL the least (probably influenced by the bad sales experience)

In the end you need to drive them all and decide which factors are most important to you. I think all of the guys on the board went through a similar decision process.

 

At age 21, you have a long time to buy cars. Don't worry. When I was your age I had an 82 Tercel, hardly a Legend. I worked on it extensively from changing the alternator and starter and wheel bearings. It had points and condenser ignition. I tuned it up with a timing gun once to spec and it ran like crap. So I disconnected the gun, turned the rotor until the car idled the best by ear and it ran like a watch. Howver it was so rusty that there was not much metal left on it and the heater didn't work. Drove with a hat and gloves in the winter

 

Thanks for the reviews. The coin is flipping in the air as to buying the Infiniti or the BMW. While I'm waiting for 'heads or tails', I'll give the Lexus another try. Initially, I ruled it out for no other reason than the headroom. (also that protrusion near your right ankle)

Can you tell me the significant changes from GS 350 '07 to '08? Have you found a 'nav hack' yet.

Thanks again.