SpicyMikey

I think RexOrg was right about changes coming in 09 (I think it was him who was beating that drum). I just heard first hand from a VERY inside source within Acura Corporate (not someone from the dealer) that the 09 will indeed be changed. This includes sheet metal changes, extra interior inches, etc. I did hear confirmation that they are also working on a production v8 (don't think that's a surprise) but it was the first time I heard it mentioned in the same breath with the RL from a real source.

As I've said before, I like the RL just like it is, but we all seem to be an exception. These confirmed changes are definitely needed. Could get exciting in the next few months as more reveals itself

Mike_TX

Okay, I'm confused. I usually associate "minor changes" in cars to mean maybe a little change to the front fascia or tail light lenses ... i.e., a mid-model freshening. But you're talking about sheetmetal, and dimensional changes. that sounds more like a re-style to me.

Any more info?

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Mike_TX

Sorry - got interrupted.

Are you saying this is a full model change - as some have suggested? Others have figured all along it wouldn't come until the 2010 model year.

But then one of the car mags muddied the waters by saying something about changes "coming in 2009". That could of course mean we'll see the 2010 model changes in the latter part of 2009 when it physically hits the market, or it could mean the 2009 model year changes that we'll see in late 2008. Your info makes it sound like the latter scenario.

I think I could get pumped about a brand-new V-8 RL coming at the end of next year!

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SpicyMikey

Agreed. My description was confusing.

I was describing it as 'minor' changes because that's how I was characterizing the changes. Those were my words, not his.

Regarding more info. No, that's it. Just strong, authoritative, no ambiguity, confirmation that the 09 RL will get changes with exterior and interior. Could they do that on the same foundation? Probably. However, considering that '10 would probably be the year for a full refresh, and, since the current RL is not selling, it's reasonable to assume this is the FMC coming along with the new TSX and TL. Like I said, he also mentioned the v8 option. Sounds like a busy year! Almost hard to believe they would do all this in a single year. However, Acura numbers are in the tank and the competition is eating their lunch. Drastic measures would probably be in order at this point.

I wouldn't clasify this one as he-said-she-said "rumor". However, I can't provide the source (for obvious reasons) so everyone will just have to take it for what it's worth.

SpicyMikey

I didn't ask that specific question, but, he definitely seemed to be referring to the 09 model year when he mentioned the changes, not the 10 model year. He said; "We'll definitely be making some changes next year to the exterior look and interior space , they're adding a couple inches to the interior". (I put that in quotes but am paraphrasing).

The comment about the V8 was a bit more ambiguous. He said Acura certainly now knows the RL needs a V8 option to compete in this segment. Not sure how to interpret that.

Mike_TX

Sounds good to me!

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neuronbob

Hey Mikey, would you be offended if I rename the thread to "Major design changes"? (Yippee! I can use my mod powers!)

So it appears Rexorg's source was correct, too. Apologies if you felt beaten on, Rex!

I, too, am happy with the RL as is, but apparently we are the truest of car geeks because the populace isn't following us, and no rap stars are crowing about their "RL with the map" on their videos lately--a sure sign of public approval.

Good sheetmetal changes, a V8, and more size along with MORE MARKETING could mean our beloved RL will finally get the attention it deserves.

SpicyMikey

Not at all, be my guest.

I'm still not personally excited about a v8 option. I'd love a little more room in the back seat but even that's not too bad. i think they need to add a few more inches in the back seat of the MDX. That's where it's really needed

However, I love the RL and I appreciate Acura's vision of advanced technology, sensible performance, and luxury. I'm really rooting for them to grow this brand. If adding a v8 powerplant to their lineup helps that, then I'm all for it.

Rob144

I read these descriptions of some more interior space and sheetmetal changes and have the following thoughts:

Didn't Acura do the same thing going from the 2G Legend to the 1G RL. They added a little more room, a little more power and refinement, and changed the sheetmetal into one of the duller car designs you could imagine. It appeared to be an all-new model thanks to the name change, but it really was something of a rebodied Legend (which is exactly what it was in Japan). It wasn't until they freshened up the 1G RL that it at least looked the part a little better. As an aside, the refreshed 1G RL has aged better than it looked when it first appeared.

Honda/Acura could well be taking the same approach with the next RL. Rather than major changes, they could tweak the chassis a few inches, scoop our the rear seats for more legroom, and change some of the stampings and viola -- new, larger RL with more power.

I just can't see Honda/Acura re-engineering the RL for the US market as long as they think they can make the JDM Legend do the job. Since the Legend is Honda's top model, I can't see even a newly independent Acura getting their own design. At best, they'll get more influence in the next Legend to be palatable to the US market.

Of course, if they had any influence, they'd have gotten cooled seats into the current NA RL just to be class-competitive. Oh, Canada -- how did you get so lucky?

Rob144

TampaRLX-SH

No, they cannot make substantial changes. I am not ready! *pounding fist*

Still. Let us not get ahead of ourselves. An inch or more in the back seat would be welcome, but that does not necessarily warrant a new or longer platform. Reconfiguring the back seat may alone offer that 1.XX inch more room. Hopefully a recline feature too.

Sheetmetal? Well likely front and rear facia alterations. Maybe a revised hood and trunklid. But I would doubt a major resculpting. The RL / LEGEND is just in its 1st model year in some markets. A drastic change would sound foolish even if our RL seems to be long in the tooth for our zealous desires.

Now Honda IS an engine company. So being tight lipped on new engines is expected. I would not be surprised if this was to be the biggest enhancement / option made to the model.

I don't want to sound too skeptical, but is it an inch, or a mile. These implied enhancements could be the MMY type. But I admit the carryovers in 2007 AND 2008 are suspect. And the altered timeline for the 2008 model does indicate some retooling is being planned for the assembly plant.

But I will wait until the fat lady shows up before getting excited about a new RL or being releived my current RL suits me just fine.

I do know when I go back to Japan in a few weeks, I will be working on another visit to the plant. *cue music : 'Mission Impossible'*

SpicyMikey

I agree with your suggestion Tampa. This could be an aggressive MMC to dress up this pig a bit better for the U.S. market without breaking from the common platform used by the Legend. That's not a bad thing. That may be all it needs right now for the U.S. consumer; Less "common" looking, more leg room, and an additional powertrain option. Man, those things would make this vehicle perfect in my mind.

On the other hand, the timing and circumstances could support the idea of a completely new vehicle. The idea that NA needs to sit with the current RL for another bunch of years because it was just introduced in some other markets makes bad business sense.

Having said that, I'm still ready to bet on the first idea. If they were 14 months away from a completely new RL platform, I think there would be sightings of something by now. Don't you think? The recent sedan spyshots are definitely not a new/bigger sedan platform. Probably just the new TL

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

I think the RL is an awesome car for someone who wants a V6 and AWD. The question is how many people want AWD? People probably see that and get turned off by it because AWD. They probably think why spend the extra money if I dont have too? I think if they made SHAWD an option sales would increase.

I also dont really think the lack of V8 is really a selling problem for the RL. The majority of Ms and GSs are not the V8 models. For most people the V6 is plenty of power.

2007AcuraRL

I concur with Trackruner. Notwithstanding the auto mag articles that have mentioned the lack of a V8 as a shortcoming the majority of the Ms, Gs, A6 and even 5 series I see on the road are V6. And I live in affluent Fairfield County CT where you see plenty of those cars on the road.
Maybe its more "prestigous" for a car maker to say they have a v8 engine option in their flagship model but the fact of the matter is it always costs more so a majority of the buyers won't spend it on the bigger engine option. And not having a V8 in the RL doesnt make it any less of a car in my opinion, no more so than the M35x as opposed to the M45.

Rexorg

No problem with the beatings. Like I said when I started the '09 thread the RL will be a full-size car with a strong V8. I imagine they will use the same chassis, but lenghten the wheelbase to add interior room and a larger trunk, which should be about 16 cu ft and not 13 like the current model.

neuronbob

And we expect pictures, too, of the Sayama plant.

TampaRLX-SH

Last time I had to sign releases to get in. I've had better luck getting pictures of St. Catherine's in Sinai then a Honda plant. I think the fine print threatens the wrath of Godzilla if you pop a poloroid.

But the funniest thing was the uniforms the factory workers wear. They look just like Domino's Pizza uniforms...ball caps and all.

Does anyone have one of the secret spy camera's I could borrow?

Mike_TX

Okay, here's where I weigh in again.

Size: I disagree that all the RL needs to be perfect is an inch or two in the back seat. This is a cross-country touring sedan, and it has too little trunk room to get that job done. Period. I did a cross-country with just my wife and mother-in-law, and in spite of extensive luggage planning, we ended up with the back seat half full of "stuff". That's just not acceptable. This car needs more length (and wheelbase) so it can have enough trunk room for more than 2 people.

As for the V-8: Okay, I'll grant you there are some V-6's out there that have lots of power, but for the RL's weight and AWD, its engine isn't really competitive. I know, I like it pretty well, too, but it ain't class-leading by a long shot. A V-8 (or at least a bigger V-6) would give it the badly-needed torque to make it more lively and engaging.

Many of you young guys grew up on 6-cylinder cars, but we older guys cut our teeth on V-8's and we regard V-6 engines as a little wimpy. REAL cars (especially real luxury cars) have V-8's, and that's just the way it is. No matter how few V-8 Infinitis and Lexuses you think they sell, the older guys who make up a lot of this market demand a V-8.

The SH-AWD: I'm with trackrunner on this. As I've stated before, I really think SH-AWD needs to be an option. Just as they sell almost no M35X's or AWD GS's down here in the Southwest, the RL's SH-AWD is a hard sell. People here just don't see the need for it, and most regard it as an extra cost, performance-robbing mechanical complexity. Acura: make it an option, and route all the power to the rear wheels in the non-AWD models.


So, if we had an RL that was:

1. Enough bigger to get it out of the mid-size category,
2. Had more power, and a V-8 (at least as an option), and
3. Had RWD as base and SH-AWD as an option,

I think Acura could sell a lot more of them.

I don't expect to see this, but I firmly believe it's what the RL needs to have for it to be viewed as a "legitimate" contender. Until then, too many people see it as a smallish, slightly underpowered, AWD car in a market full of larger, more-powerful, RWD cars that outperform it.

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gdevine

I thought Acura marketed the SHAWD as part of its performance image. This is the new break-through for agile handling on dry roads as well as wet snowy roads. Almost all Audi's sold have AWD even though you have the option of front wheel drive. I don't think the SHAWD is the problem.

I think the problem is that Acura has a reputation from its 1st gen RL as being a rather cushy, cadillac feel type of vehicle, and they have not effectively gotten the word out that their 2nd gen RL is completely a different animal. In 1999 I test drove the RL and thought it was well appointed, somewhat peppy, and a more refined Cadillac except much more reliable than a Caddy. Then I test drove the Audi A6 AWD and found exactly what I was looking for in the comfort and handling of a vehicle. Also drove the Volvo S80 , Lincoln, and the Caddy . The Audi's AWD was awesome compared to those 3, however the RL at the time was my second choice but just not there.

I just don't think prospective buyers are even willing to test drive the 2G RL because of the reputation of the 1G RL. Too bad for them because they don't know what they are missing, completely a different car then the one I drove in 99.

The RL in my opin kicks butt on the AUDI and of course you can drive it without it breaking down. Wow reliabiltiy is sure a nice feature to have on a beautiful luxury sports sedan.

The V8 factor is minor, How many V8 Audi's, BMW's, Infiniti's have sold relative to the 6's?

Acura has got to get buyers into the showroom to try this car. Word of mouth from 580 car buyers last month is not going to do it.

lumpulus

Well, I bought mine BECAUSE it had AWD, and my G/F said she wanted the RDX I was looking at at the time.

I couldn't care less if it comes with a V8, V10, V6, or a 4Cyl, as long as it has more power.

I agree the truck needs to be bigger, and they need to fix those slow shifting paddles...and the throttle response could be a bit sharper.

GoHawks

I couldn't of said it better. My college car was a '78 Chevy Impala with a 5.0 liter V8. Even that V8 was rather anemic when compared to the early 455 cu. in V8s of the early '70s or the 501 cu. in. in the Cadillacs.

My RL would just spank that old Chevy today, but there is something about a V8. Even if it's only an option in the mind of some.

As for SH-AWD, even though it's marketed for enhancing performance, the majority of the car buying public don't get it. Only the car geeks do.

The rest think that the only benefit is foul weather driving.

Rob144

Use your cell phone! Just pretend to be making a call every time there is something interesting to see.

Many years ago (before the cell phone) I visited the Porsche factory for a guided tour. They were pretty anal about not taking pictures so I didn't get any.

On the other hand, when I went to see my recovered stolen car at an impound yard and walked in with my camera I was told I could not take pictures. But once the foreman went away, the guy they left me with nodded a "go ahead" and I took some hip-level snaps. I only greased his palm afterwards!

Rob144

Mike_TX

People keep referring to the number of V-6 BMW's, Audis and Infinitis sold compared to V-8 versions. Two points about that -

- The V-8 option PRICE pushes many out of the market who would love to have the 8. When they tell you it's an extra 6 to 10 thousand dollars, lots of people just give up and go with the 6. I know I can no longer justify a V-8 Bimmer.

- Image, baby. Even if the bulk of the buyers go with the 6, just the fact that there is a bad-daddy, honkin' V-8 on the option list raises the desirability factor of the car. It's image marketing. "That thing got a hemi?" has sold tons of wimpy 6-cylinder Dodges, and the Infiniti M45 has sold lots of M35's.

Oh, okay, one more observation. Even though I buy into the "handling" part of SH-AWD, I have personally never seen it in action, either with my RL or my MDX (and I've tried!). I mean, push it as hard as you dare around a curve or freeway cloverleaf, and if you can make the display show more "bars" on one of the rear wheels than the other, you're more daring than I am. So I have to wonder if all those clutch packs and diffs are really doing anything for me.

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TampaRLX-SH

Ditto Rob. Last time we had to check all our stuff before entering the plant. That included cell phones. Thre must be a USAF secret micro camera imbedded into a contact lense you can get for me? I would not want to get caught and unleash the wrath of Rodan and the Three Headed Monster upon us.

And in case I am already being watched....this message will self destruct in 5 seconds. 5....4....3....2.................................

Steve0

By 2010 acura will have some hot models, and the cars will be sweet too.......

Rexorg

I know this is not good news to current Acura dealers, but the brand needs more dealerships if it is going to gain market share. Sure, many luxury brands can and do have standalone dealerships, but it seems Acura lags behind in this regard. There is what about 160 Acura dealerships in the US? How many Honda dealerships are there? I have no idea, but I am sure it is many times over the Acura dealerships. What is my point? My point is that Acuras should be sold at Honda dealerships--plain and simple.

In Indiana there are 4 Acura dealerships--1 in Lafayette, 1 in Fort Wayne, and 2 in Indianapolis. There is none in NW Indiana, which has the second largest concentration of population. While there are many Acura dealerships in Illinois, especially in the nearby Chicago area, a Indiana resident must pay Indiana sales tax (6%) when they try to title the vehicle in Indiana, so any kind of bargain they can get in Illinois is wiped out and then some.

I am going to do more research and continue this later.

neuronbob

Bummer. "If you know too much, we'll have to kill you."

SpicyMikey

There's about 1000 Honda dealerships. However I never even remotely thought the problem with Acura's was too few dealerships. I agree that sounds strange how few you have in your area, but, we have 2 inside Orlando city limits and 2 more in easy driving distance around the city. In contrast we have 2 BMW dealers and 2 Lexus dealers within that same perimeter. Maybe people in Indiana don't buy that many Acura's I'm sure if there was a demand someone would buy a franchise and open a store. Capitalism baby.

Regarding the idea of selling Acura's with Honda's. Are you friggin kidding? That would never happen, and for very good reason. First, it would dilute the brands image. Acura (and all upscale brands) are very careful about that. But forget about teh image for a second. Have you ever been in a Honda dealership (or toyota, etc.) on a Saturday? It's like Grand Central Terminal. Kids running around screaming and yelling, big banners and balloons everywhere. Punk salesmen who look too young to be working and probably just took the job last week. Point is, its a totally different environment. One that someone spending $40k+ on a car doesn't expect. You can't and shouldn't combine selling a $13k Fit and a $50k RL

Rexorg

Correction: There are only 3 Acura dealerships in Indiana. There is none in Lafayette. Sorry.

Indiana is in reality a hick state. With only 6 million persons, many of which do not speak English (about 13%) there seems to be more pickups, vans, SUVs than there are cars, and most of the cars are either Ford, Chevy or Pontiac.

Here it is common for a GM dealership to sell to sell two, three or more brands. Ford is trying to buy out dealerships, and Dodge is fading fast.

Granted, dealerships can be crowded on Saturdays, but to be successful dealerships have to have cutomers come in to look around. With only 3 Acura dealerships it is at least an hour or more drive to any of them outside of Indianapolis and Fort Wayne. The NW Indiana people are not going to drive into Chicago to look at cars when it takes 2-3 hours each way to go 30-40 miles on a weekend.

I see the point about exclusivity, but Acura is so exclusive not many people know what one is, except for the TL and MDX. The Acura dealerships in Indiana are owned by mega-owners--Bob Rohrman (28 dealerships), Ed Martin (9 dealerships), and Hubler (11 dealerships). It must be hard to sell Acuras as Bob Rohrman does not have an Acura dealership in Lafayette his headquarters. He owns the Acura dealership in Fort Wayne, some 120 miles away. You can buy an Acura from Rohrman Honda in Lafayette if you ask and they will service it.

SpicyMikey

I think it's against franchise rules to combine Acura sales or service with any other brand (e.g. Auto Malls). I'm sure it's the same way with any upscale brand. Again, the reasons are obvious. These upscale brands invest a lot in creating a certain "experience" for the customer. It's important to protect that investment.

gavine

I think proximity to the dealer is somewhat important. I have an Acura dealer about 1/2 mile from my house (walking distance). I was considering an Infiniti during my research phase but the dealer is about 45 minutes away, which isn't too bad but having the Acura dealer right here made it a no-brainer. I can drop it off for service and walk home if I wanted to.

It just feels a lot better being that close to the dealer.

GoHawks

I'll respectfully disagree with you here Mike. I can definitely tell the difference in how my RL handles curves compared to previous cars I have had. SH-AWD definitely makes a difference in handling, but you don't notice it in typical driving. Start pushing it around turns and you'll immediately appreciate the benefits.

dwboston

I have no problem getting the torque display to show more bars to the outside rear wheel than the inside while going around cloverleaf turns. I only push it when no one else is around me but I can see it on the display and feel it in the way the car holds its line.

Give it some gas Grandpa, that's what it's there for.

SpicyMikey

Oh, Mike's not going to like the grandpa crack.

Let's not forget the benefit of traction. If I can believe my MID, I am running awd 90% of the time. Also zero torque steer from this more sophisticated drive system.

Having said that, I agree with Mike to a degree, most might not appreciate it or care to pay for it. Not sure if this is a asset or a liability in making a sale to the general public.

dwboston

Just joking with the Grandpa reference.

My car seems to be in AWD a lot as well.

neuronbob

Actually, my dealer is a combined Acura/Volvo dealership. The Acura and Volvo sales parts of the dealership are separated by the common service area (also split in two), so at first glance they look separate.

P.S. And I hope to be like Mike when I get to be his age. He obviously has good taste in cars and knows his way around a gas pedal.

gavine

SHAWD also works when COASTING around a turn. When you coast around a left turn, you'll see the "drag" on the inside rear wheel and the opposite for a right turn. This "drag" is engine braking which helps in turning by holding-back that inside rear wheel so if you don't want to push through the turns, SHAWD will also help you glide through the turns. The system is phenomenal.

SpicyMikey

I'm confused. How is that depicted on the MID

ssim3

Also close to Spicy Mickey in Orlando the dealership in Ocala is a combo Honda/Acura Store. At least I know it used to be that way. Its the only time I have ever seen this.

SpicyMikey

I'm very surprised. So, they are selling Honda's and Acura's on the same sales floor, sharing the same sales staff and service dept? I almost can't believe that.

I suppose I can see Bob's scenerio. Kind of sounded like they were sharing the roof but were kept as separate operations.

VOdoc

Come on out to "hip" California, with 33 million and climbing. Here we ALSO have more pickups, vans and SUVs than cars. Don't know why you need a duallie pickup with running lights to commute to work on the freeway, but there you go. Maybe they haul sacks of manure around on the weekend or they just like burning gas.

One big reason I upgraded to the RL from the TL was the fact that I felt verrry small and vulnerable on the freeway with all those testosterone-fueled idiots revving their V-8s.