ishanb

I have the new car bug. I almost bought a Mercedes GL550 (a big heavy and fast SUV) yesterday because of the huge tax break on these giant beasts that expires today...but I don't like driving an SUV and a 13/17 EPA mpg rating didn't help. This dealer also didn't want to discount much below 71K, which after a 40K or so tax deduction over two years, is still not too bad. But the value of this SUV after three or four years is going to be abysmal, and gas prices will go up. And as my perceptive 12 yo daughter said, "Dad, the front grille is ugly and the Mercedes "star" is the size of a serving platter." Bit too much bling, also. The car is built in Alabama, not Germany, and I noticed some messy welds.

I drove the LWS460L AWD also. Maybe it's an "old man's" car, but it is a pleasure to drive, build quality is impeccable, mileage is much better than my RL and the dealers are desperate. I suspect I could get one for about 62K. Reliability is certainly on par with Acura and dealer service is far better. The stereo is better (Mark Levinson), it has most of the Acura goodies plus heated rear seats, the Comfort package and that's about it. Like the RL the 460L AWD comes with just about everything else standard. The OEM 19" tires only last 20K miles, though.

What do you folks think? I would buy an '09RL except for the fact that the front is too ugly for words.I will run out of my extended warranty (92K miles) on my Acura in 6K miles. I drive about 25K-30K a year, mostly on I-95 Baltimore to DC at speeds somewhat above the limit. I would dearly love a bigger more powerful RL, but I'm not sure I can wait until late 2010, and I am afraid of expensive out of warranty repairs with my RL. Should I just bide my time and hope nothing expensive like the trans fails and drive the RL for another two years? Other than the cramped rear seat, lousy dealer service and a few more HP, I have no real complaints with the RL and I've had very reliable 1G and 2G Legends before, both of which I sold at about 80K-85K miles. My wife says it's my decision. If she just said no, it'd be a lot easier to decide...

dwboston

I like the AWD LS460 a lot - very nice car. If the money isn't an object I say go for it. I wouldn't wait around for two years to see what Acura comes up with for the next RL, and having owned an 05 RL I wouldn't buy the first model year of the next-gen RL either.

LeeDan00

without a question, i would say yes. i love acura, but lexus spanks acura in every category. the RL interior is nice, but just sitting in a lexus is completely different. i've driven both and i'd say lexus hands down. the only difference i noticed is the RL's suspension is a little stiffer, which is something many of us like, including myself. in terms of technology, there are so many more features on the LS than on any other car. i would make a side by side list, but that would take too long lol.

fatty

Heck yeah lexus! LS all the way if you got the money to spend. Its better in every aspect you can think of, except price. That would probably be my next car............when I can afford it!

neuronbob

PM Mike_TX. He has the standard LS460 but can attest to the greatness of the big Lex.

If I were looking for ultimate luxury, the Lex would do it. I personally like some sport with my lux, however.

I didn't know the LS came in an AWD flavor.

larrynimmo

you are kidding yourself if you think you are going to buy the new 2009 Lexus LS 460L awd for 62k

ishanb

Thanks for all the feedback. I "would like some sport" also, neuronbob and I'll be keeping the car overnight to drive it on all the usual fun off and on ramps on I-95 to see how it feels. I know it won't be as good as the RL, but I don't drive that aggressively either, especially with wife/kids in the car.

Regarding price, yeah, I might pay a few thousand more, but I also have a committed buyer for the RL at 16K, which for a car with 86K miles is as good as it gets right now. Reliability is my ultimate long-term criterion for a new car. I absolutely depend on it, being on call 24/7/365. Safety is an issue too, and the Lexus and RL are comparable. Finally, my local Acura dealer is truly awful, while at least two Lexus dealers I've visited have very good reputations based on friends' reports.

If only Acura could give us a peek at what's coming in 2011...but life is short. Just read the news. This is the time, before all the college bills start coming due in five short years...

i will PM Mike_TX as suggested. Thanks to all again.

dwboston

It's new for 2009. I've seen several TV ads for it in the last couple of weeks here in MA.

TSX69

As I am sure you know, the LS is in a very different class than the RL & if you are after a more luxury type of vehicle in long base form ... go for it. However, seeing as how 2009 just started I doubt that there are many discounts yet ... even if 2008 sales were down like 50% from the year before. Even if sales continue to decline & 2009 drags on, I doubt that you will get $20k off ...

However, as someone w/ experience w/ both Lexus & Acura, I tend to like Acuras better as they do seem more sporty & geared towards a younger demographic ... all @ value price despite still having good build quality & reliability. Might I recommend waiting a year to see what the rumored 2010 RL will be ... granted w/ the car market going the way it is, I would not be surprised if it gets pushed back to 2011 or later. Spy shots thus far have @ least suggested a larger size & RWD.

007Acura

normally i would say keep your car but since it has a lot of miles it might be a good idea to get a new car. Do you need such a big car? if not, an IS-f maybe a nice alternative. but i would still get a m3, c63 amg, S5, S4, etc for that price. but if you want a big sedan the new 7 series is great

ssim3

Don't buy new the depreciation on new cars today is killer I do not understand buying a new car. Like Vlad did on his 550 saving 40,000 off of new. I did the same thing on my E500 getting a $75,000 car for $30,000 with 32,000 miles.

Blazing GT

Huge Car, Huge Upgrade. Go for it.

ishanb

I like your style, Blazing GT. I'm going to test drive it Saturday and will provide as good a comparison with the RL as I can about handling, suspension, etc. I've been waiting for the AWD version to be readily available, and most dealers have a few. Toyota Corporate sales are down 40% from a year ago...we'll see if they're willing to offer a fair price if I really really like it.

Blazing GT

Price sounds right.....DO IT..haha and post pictures

static808

That would be my next car...For $62K, I'd say go get it.

I love Acura but with the NSX being scuttled and Acura possibly not growing the entire car line (new RL), get the AWD Lexus.

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

Though I own a RL, our family is still die hard Lexus (still own two ourselves). They are incredibly vehicles with the LS being an exceptional car. Go or it.

vas25tl

Wait - why are people comparing the RL with the LS460L? There is no Acura in the lineup that even comes close in comparison with that vehicle.

OP - go for it, the LS's have always been great vehicles and def the flagship of Lexus.

slick230

I say wait, unless you are paying cash and gonna keep it for awhile.

ishanb

Thanks for all the input. I did keep the demo, have driven it for about four hours today. In the Sports setting, and with the air suspension standard, handling and my ability to "feel the road" is almost as good for the RL, given the size of the LS460L AWD. Everything else is at least as good, and should be.

However, the dealer experience has been awful. Even though Lexus L460/600H sales are down 53.2% in November 2008 compared to a year ago, stock is limited, I would have to order the car and at least three dealers claim they don't know when the last possible date for ordering the 2009 would be. This is bunk (to put it nicely). Also, there was a great deal of effort for them to sell the LS460s they had, even if they weren't the long wheelbase version with AWD.

As much as I like the car, it's still just a car. I think I will take slick320's advice and wait. The economy will still be in the tank (no pun intended) a few months from now, the supply channel (i.e., demand for the AWD in the Northeast and Midwest) will have been met and invoice pricing (the dealer still makes about $10K on the deal at invoice) will be available. It's too bad, the LS460l AWD is a great car, and about $20K less and much bigger than the Mercedes S550. Patience is a virtue, right?

rtr

RL is a keeper and if you need more features you may as well just stay home lolol

static808

Its a buyer's market. You can wait and see what happens. Nobody knows when this financial crisis will end.

Optimists have it starting to thaw in April-June. Realists have thawing in Sept-Oct. Pessimists are saying 2009 is just as bad as 2008.

CL6

Do yourself a favor and lease it.

tnormanchevy

I stopped by a Lexus dealer today and looked at a new LS460L. Beautiful car....sticker was 80k but they were selling it for 68k. Seemed like a pretty steep discount. Maybe in a few years, I will pick up a used one.

1stRL

I wouldn't bother. Think about the depreciation on it

mondo540

We are in golden times if you have good credit, a job and some money....discounts are huge on everything now, so that first year hit is not nearly as painful as it once was...I got 20% off msrp on a Lexus product recently. Others are as well. You have to negotiate some for it, but they will go there.

CL6

Wrong. First year hit will be far greater than normal. Expect a 35-45% loss in the first year alone. The more expensive the car the closer to 45% you'll be. Buy 18 month used one or lease. You're right about the golden times for buyers, however.

mondo540

Well, maybe...I dunno...seems to me once the glut gets burned thru and the production halts take hold, we may not be seeing these huge discounts in 6 to 9 mos....tell me what a loaded 08 IS-F is worth....It's a yr old, right? You have Manheim info on those?

BTW, is that the tone you use with your customers as well or just on the internet with people you don't know?

afjock21

He's a internet sales manager.. get it? heheh.

larrynimmo

i am sorry but what did CL6 say wrong...what is not the truth...he's just telling you the way it is. The IS-F though is a limited production car and used pricing values are going to be very high. Just remember, people may race this vehicle. You may have one with 5k miles on it and be very worn down.

CL6

I have a guy with an 05 Vanquish S... new that car was 240k now if he gets 85k he'll be lucky.

The % a car drops now over 12-18 months is much larger than it was even 8 months ago. Makes it tough on the dealership when you buy a used car at auction for what you think is a good price but in the 2 weeks it takes to get it up for sale it drops by another $1,500. That's just reality. Great time to buy a used car!

I probably spend 35% of my time trying to correct what people "think" is the truth vs. what really is the truth. Unfortunately trade-in values are just brutal right now and I think it'll take a very, very long time before they don't drop so fast.

RL06tech

The lexus is very nice indeed, but equipped as the RL (including the nice radio), its price is 74K. For that you get a car that is slightly larger, a little quieter, is equivalent in acceleration (the AWD LS is slower than the RWD) but much less sporty. The interior accomodations of the LS are undenyably more luxurious. If you can get the lexus for 60K, you can probably get the RL for 40 and change. I would save the money.
Being completely honest, I wouldn't get either!!!!!
Given the economic climate I'd buy a FIT Given our present dilema the depreciation on any "luxury car" is going to be atrocious. Furthermore, if the car is just going to be a personal point A to point B transport what is the point???
Personally my RL will be paid for in a couple of mths, I'm keeping it till the wheels fall off. For fun and games I'll always have my S2K

CadiGTi

I would not hold your breath for Acura to replace the RL anytime soon. They have announced major new product program cancellations. I would be almost sure the RL program has been cut or seriously delayed as Acura has announced the BMW 7 series competitor, NSX, and V8 program are all dead.

I have the 2006 RL, my mother has the 2008 Lexus LS460L with the air suspension, 19" tire/wheels, and sport tuning. My business partner has the standard 2008 LS460.

I have had outstanding service on the RL from Pohanka in Chantilly that is the equal of what my mother receives from her Florida Lexus dealer and my business partner does from Lexus of Towson (brand new Acura loaners at no-charge and 1 dedicated service rep to always deal with, service open 7 days a week and 6 days a week from 6am - midnight) Pohanka also serviced my 2003 Acura CL-S from new until last year when I sold the CL-S with 183k miles. One clutch at 120k was the only major replacement on the CL. I would not be afraid to keep the RL well past the 150k mark.

Toyota is a shrewd operator and the LS plant builds many other models so it is easy for them to cut LS production and produce other models. If you want an all out luxury car, the LS is a great ride. They get about 30mpg on the hwy (RWD). I just did 830 miles each way to Florida last month in my RL. 27.6 going down and 29.1 coming back over the 830 miles each way. Not too bad for intelligent 4wd vehicle.

I have driven both of the Lexus's and cannot really feel a huge difference between my mothers fully decked out version and the standard version. Personally I think the std wheelbase model looks better and has sufficient room (much better than the RL).

Good luck!

CadiGTi

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=236796

The restructuring of Honda’s new model programme that led to the death of the new Honda NSX is much more extensive than previously thought. Honda is completely dismantling its plans for the next two years as it attempts to deal with the rapid collapse in new car sales across the world.
Among the casualties of Honda’s rethink are a range of rear-wheel-drive cars to be sold under the Acura brand, a proposed V8 engine, a successor to the Honda S2000 and a convertible based on the forthcoming Honda CR-Z coupé.
Acura, Honda’s US-market luxury rival for Infiniti and Lexus, has been hit hardest by the changes. Not only has it lost the NSX successor — due to be branded as an Acura but killed off last month — but the programme to develop new rear-drive cars aimed specifically at the BMW 3, 5 and 7-series has also been canned.
The basic planning on the cars had been carried out, and the first model to enter production was to be a BMW 7-series rival, due in 2015. It was meant to provide Honda with a credible alternative to established premium rear-drive brands. The future of the next Honda Legend is also in doubt.
Development of a new V8 engine for the rear-drive cars has also been stopped. The new Honda V8 was seen as the wrong engine at the wrong time, and it was opposed by some Honda engineers who viewed it as too big, heavy and unnecessary. Honda product planners have also had trouble figuring out how to make the engine cost-effective.
It’s not just big cars and big petrol engines that have been wiped out. The proposed drop-top version of the new Honda CR-Z hybrid coupe has been abandoned, along with any successor to the Honda S2000, which will die this year.
The current pair of Honda Accords (one for the US, one for the rest of the world) could also be replaced with a single model; that could save billions in development costs.
Honda is now concentrating on building more hybrids and a new small city car. It aims to build 500,000 hybrids by 2012, including the new Honda Insight and the world’s first hybrid supermini, a petrol-electric Honda Jazz due next year. It should be capable of 80mpg and emit just 90g/km of CO2.
Dan Stevens

vas25tl

It's better to have a salesman/internet manager tell you how it is then to do dances around the desk. I was always honest with my customers when I was selling cars. They always seem to think they can trade in a year old car with low miles and only lose $5K (on a $50-60K car) which is ridiculous. They should be told what's up so they know now to get raped next time.

CL6

The more expensive the car the better to go with leasing. I wonder how people who leased the RL are doing based upon depreciation and lease payments? Just as an example I checked a used car list I had from May 2008 and 07s that were selling for $39,888.00 (MSRP low-50s) are now selling for $29,888.00 with the same mileage, etc. That's 25% depreciation in 6 months! I'm sure the selling prices will be lower, too.

afjock21

/\
|
|

Good point about leasing the more pricey a car is, definitely true unless you're gonna be keepin it for A LOT of years, which is definitely not the case for me anyway.

I was pumped the price of the RL dropped so much, originally I thought of leasing it a couple years ago but now I OWN an RL for the same amount I would have made in lease payments - LOL. Glad I waited to say the least. So much luxury for little cost.

It's snowing here in Boston now, think I'll go have some fun with SH-AWD!

ishanb

Is ordering the LS460L AWD (so I get exactly what I want,nothing more or less) a better deal for me and/or for the dealer? The dealer wouldn't have any carrying charges on a loan for a car they already have and they have a guaranteed buyer. Just wondering...I bought a Volvo this way, got a free RT ticket to pick it up in Sweden and it was 6% off MSRP, no negotiation.

CL6

Overseas delivery is a set deal usually. Ordered cars can be a win for the dealer and the buyer but you can run into problems if incentives come out before you get the car but after you order it unless you and the dealer agree about that beforehand. After all, it's tough for either party to know what the car will be selling for in the 3-4 months it takes for it to arrive.