Blazing GT

okay a few days ago in brooklyn it was raining hard core. I faced a scary senario in which i recovered. I decided to put the SH-AWD into effect with the crappy OEM tires. I didnt know it was that crappy. I went around a bunch a curves as I was headed to long Island. One curve caught me by suprise...and the RL started....fish tailing.....This never happened in the TL. But im suprised how the SH-AWD made me recover so quick and i just felt all the tires trying to adjust. Pretty cool

no flamesssss

DoctorTuna

Sounds like it was the VSA that may have saved your behind.... and your RL. Glad to hear that all is well!! Gotta love electronics sometimes though!

Chas2

I agree that was the VSA, which appears, by all descriptions, to be integrated with SHAWD, so I guess you could say in part SHAWD helped you.

kirbyflorida

SH-AWD works better than any system out there.
To compare this with the TL might not be fair, tires on each car can make a huge difference, also surface, etc..
TL's without SH-AWD cannot compare, for example see the thread where a TL tired to follow an RL onto a fast on ramp, the TL hit the wall while the RL just did fine, no issues.

UW RL

was that you that made the TL crash?

Chas2

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-2005-2012-76/sh-awd-sets-bad-example-500489/

Ballinger

The other thing the SH-AWD does is impress the ladies. Oh yeah... Ho ho!

I just had opportunity and need to move rapidly down a particular mountain highway that's got a section of chicanes and turns I've driven hard with many cars. Although I can't say I've used the VSA, I can confirm this heavy tank of an RL handles very well... and that's the AWD.

RL06tech

What is surprising to many is that SHAWD actually can produce significant oversteer in slippery conditions. As we all know SHAWD works if you accelerate in a curve, however if you overdrive the car over the limits of adhesion, like in any RWD car, you will cause oversteer. Once you get used to it you can predict it however for most RL drivers it comes as quite a surprise and in most instance it its snap oversteer which is very alarming, I call it the SHAWD wiggle. It happens only in low traction conditions sand or loose gravel, snow and rain. I've never been able to induce it on plain dry pavement (and Ive tried). Although I haven't had the opportunity, to push it over the limit the trait has never shown up since swapping to much grippier yokohama s4's. The worse instance in my expirience was a time I really flogged it on a sharp 90 degree turn not realizing that there was loose sand in the road. The car oversteered very sharply, which was counteracted by the VSA which made it ovesteer sharply in the opposite direction where the VSA kicked in again and finally the situation sorted itself out, it was very scary, but again I was pushing the car at basicly racing speeds. Its a good reminder that no matter how sophisticated the system it can't violate the laws of physics.
So....drive it hard but don't forget the SHAWD wiggle!

dlynch

Interesting RL06tech...thanks. Do you like the S4's on your car? Any downside?
Our new-to-us 05 needs 2 new rear tires. The fronts were replaced by the dealer before we purchased. They should have done all 4...
Thanks in advance!
DaveL

RL06tech

I got the s4's as part of depaxing my RL, I also got the 19 inch rims. The s4 are excellent and way superior in all respects to the MXM's. I still have to use them in the snow. Go to the tire section I have a thread on the change there. Chas2 also did the same swap and is very well impressed with the tires.

Chas2

Very interesting observation. I experienced this oversteer on a wet 300 foot skid pad when I took the RL to Summit Point at a BMW CCA event. It was very easy for me to induce oversteer, at relatively low speeds, like about 20-25 mph.

I did not recognize the penchant for oversteer at the time as possibly being linked to SH-AWD, as this was the first time I had ever been on a skidpad. I was one of the few cars that kept wanting to swap ends. The other car that seemed to do it a lot in my group was the VW Passat 4motion wagon, although I always attributed that to the driver since they were remarking that everytime he went through the slalom, cones were flying almost 100 yards.

I wonder now if the AWD systems had anything to do with skidpad performance, or if we were just bad drivers. I do know that the SH-AWD helped on the slalom, especially the uphill slalom set up on a left hand sweeping turn of the track.

Chas2

By the way, I cannot wait to try the skidpad with the S4's next year. The BMW event was done with OEM Michelins.

Blazing GT

Great Observation!

RL06tech

I'd love to try someting like that, but in the boonies there are no places to have fun (except empty open roads). Most of all I'd like to do it with the VSA off to fully explore wagging the RL's tail. The s2000 wags its tail with abandon so you always keep an eye for it, the reason its distressing in the RL is that you don't really expect it.

acuda

This is very valuable information.

Has anyone experienced "unexpected" oversteer under low traction conditions under normal driving conditions? (i.e., not when flogging the car and not on a skidpad)

It is interesting to imagine that the SHAWD system must have been "calibrated" for a certain set of conditions with regard to traction, etc., and when the conditions markedly differ it is easy to understand why the system may produce unexpected inappropriate forces/attitudes.

paliknight

im sure the RL has a profound AWD system, but that does not mean you can drive carelessly. i know its fun to take turns at high speeds and neglect rain and snow, but you should always be cautious. as previously stated, regardless of what technology your car has, it will always be limited. im hoping no one tries to exceed those limits only to end up in the hospital.

larrynimmo

i drive my RL quickly through the turns daily...it is a steller performer with lots of g force...of the cars I have driven, it predictably holds the road better than any car I have ever driven....THAT BEING SAID....when it does break loose it is scary.

acuda

Can any of you who have experienced this sudden oversteer comment on how quickly the traction control intervenes to correct, ....or at least interrupt the process? I was wondering if the car stays in its lane or if you end up doing something like a 90 degree plow in the process of getting out of the oversteer.

Also, and maybe Chas could comment with his recent driving school experience, what is the best maneuver for the driver in this scenario? Should you just let off the gas and try to steer back to midline without overcorrecting?

TampaRLX-SH

I've been able to break the tail free into oversteer on a couple of occaisions (purposefully-on a deserted road).

The typical scenario was to charge (35mph) into a sharp right turn, yanking hard on the steering wheel and accelerating through the turn as soon as I felt the weight transfer. The OEM Michelins do me fine, but as many point out, they are limited for agressive type driving and can only hold on so much.

The rear lost grip, inducing oversteer and before the tail crossed into the next lane, the VSA kicked in and tucked the tail in quickly, even sharply. Where one could go wrong is trying to overcorrect the oversteer and fight the VSA to induce the rear to wag left, then right or fishtail effect. But ultimately the VSA will get the driver back on course.

Not only does the SHAWD of this car continue to be the sleeper jewel of it, the integration with VSA is very impressive. When the VSA kicked in, I remember thinking aloud (Oh, OK...you got it.)

Suspension and tires could put the RL into serious sportscar handling manuevers. But as it is (a premium lux/sport sedan) it is way more capable than I ever drive. Where I am most thankful for this system is the increased confidence it will save my butt in the unexpected as apposed to what I can (and cannot) make it do.

acuda

Thanks Tampa....that's great to hear.

Chas2

On dry pavement, during accident avoidance, slalom and extreme turn and brake (intended to make you exceed available traction), the car did great. No oversteer issues.

The oversteer came on the wet skidpad, and was very easy to induce. Again, not sure if it was my driving or the SH-AWD, but oversteer could easily been "helped" by the SH-AWD. This was my first time on the skidpad, and I am sure that had much to do with it.

This was a traditional 300 ft skidpad, which had been wetted by sprinklers for a good 45 minutes, maybe more. If I recall, the ID was 240 ft and the OD was 300 ft. We followed a line about 250 ft. The car was with Michelin PAX tires, approximately equivalent to 245/45-18 and pumped up to 37/35 FR at least, maybe a little more.

Accelerate and follow the line, once set in the turn, keep the wheel steady. Increase throttle until the tires greasy or steering light. Keep increasing the throttle until the tires start chattering or stuttering. This is the edge of understeer loss of control. Increase the throttle, but keep control of the car using steering only, then same, using throttle only, then practice using both.

I made all the traditional mistakes by doing the intuitive action as the car lost control due to understeer, such as tightening the steering because the car was running wide.

Oversteer happened very quickly. I distinctly remember one instance where the tires where really chattering, and we held this steady state. Then the instructor said to increase the throttle slightly, to get closer to the edge of understeer control loss and be prepared to correct the loss of control by giving less steering, steering more to the midline as acuda puts it.

I increased throttle and all hell brakes loose with oversteer as the rear end starts coming out, I am guessing 30-45 degrees, but do not really know... I did not really think about it, but countersteered toward midline and beyond to catch the rear end, and bring it around to neutral. I am sure at the same time I was either applying brake or let off the throttle immediately because we slowed a lot. What I am describing happened so fast, in the blink of an eye.

The point is the car was quickly brought back under control with traditional driving techniques on the skid pad. I was at least complimented for steering into the skid, but that was not what we wanted to do. We wanted to stay below the point of oversteer loss of control, and I was to be more gentle with the throttle.

As I think about this, I do not think I could have been more gentle with the throttle, when the rear end just came around. I induced oversteer at least three times in this 10 minute session as we were looking for that edge of control loss and the ability to bring the car back with steering and less throttle. That little bit of throttle may have been the SH-AWD kicking in, and inducing the oversteer, or it could have been my ham footed control of the throttle, although I could not imagine being more gentle with the throttle.

All this happened over 20 mph, but probably less than 25 or right around there. I could never get the car close to 30 when I had a chance to look at the speedo, which was infrequent—and there was no way to see the MID. If you were not looking out to where you wanted to point the car at, things got interesting really fast. As we continued to try this, steering was the single most effective way to control understeer. Throttle release had much less effect, and was a distant second. It seemed that perhaps the transmission might have gone into the long legged third gear since the car did not seem to loose much speed with reduction in throttle, and I almost always had to rescue myself by steering toward midline, when I was doing the part of the exercise that was supposed to be throttle only.

acuda

Wow! That is really interesting....especially at those relatively low speeds. I think your hypothesis that the oversteer was triggered by the onset of sh-awd spinning the outside rear wheel faster is likely correct. What a valuable lesson to learn (for us vicariously) under controlled conditions as these.

Two questions:

Was traction/VSA on or off during this exercise?

Did the instructor riding with you think you had overdone it on the throttle--it sounds like that didn't happen--or did he also entertain the idea that the sudden rear yaw input could have tipped things into oversteer?

Chas2

VSA was on the whole time, and one of the three instructors (three separate skidpad sessions) instructor said to me one time, the VSA just saved your bacon. They do not have you turn off VSA until you are much more skilled. They like you to build up several hours on the skidpad over the sessions.

One may have thought I overdid it on the throttle, as the next time he said, increase the throttle very gently, in calm soothing voice.

All admitted up front to not knowing the capabilities of the Acura AWD system, though at least one seemed to vaguely understand about the torque vectoring, but not how it worked. All knew how the BMW system worked (of course).