synth19

Has anyone ever considered or test driven a Volkswagen Phaeton before purchasing an RL? You can argue the Phaeton is another sleeper as the RL. Although MSRP is quite a bit more then the RL, resale is just as bad. Anyways, just curious as I saw one on the road (for the first time) a few days ago.

HBaJ

I'd pick up a used Phaeton over an RL to be honest..

jhr3uva90

I hear it is an excellent, A8-class car.

Treblig

Test drove one when they first came out. Too much money at the time and they only came in the long wheelbase version. It was a very impressive car though.

HBaJ

Also..everyone thinks the RL was marketed poorly, i dont think the Phateon even got a billboard lol

CBRTLS47

talk to siggy, he seems to know quite a bit about the cars. Good luck and my personal opinion would be the VW

neuronbob

Nice car, but (and I hate to sound like a snob) I had trouble justifying that much money for a VW. This is even though VW offered a lot for the money in the Phaeton. We talk about the dealer experience at Acura, but it's far better than what I have found at VW dealers, who are used to selling much less expensive cars.

A used one might be a good deal for someone.

synth19

^ interesting.....I read this on an VW site:

"Nice car, but (and I hate to sound like a snob) I had trouble justifying that much money for an Acura."

lol! (jk)

synth19

I looked up some interior pics for kicks, seats look really nice... asthetically, dash looks really outdated looking. Not feelin it.

Qest

If I lived some place where I wanted to cruise at very high speed, a used Phaeton would be an easy pick. It's much heavier than an A8 due to steel construction rather than the A8's aluminum. The Nav is horrible. Expected reliability is near the bottom. Repairs and parts on a W12 won't be cheap, nor will fuel.

My problem is that gas is cheap, and resale on the Phaeton is in the gutter, so a high-mileage example may fall into my price range causing me to do something really silly.

As strange as it sounds, I'm looking at:

05-06 RL (used)
06 Audi A3 (used)
04 W12 Phaeton (used)
08 Subaru WRX (possibly STI)
08 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X

I need AWD and 4 doors. I want something comfortable and fun-to-drive. Currently on the lookout for a nice used car, but if I don't find one in the next year, it may be something slightly less comfortable.

Riddler2222

If I'm looking at a Phaeton, I would much prefer to look at an Audi S-8.

whealy

Owned a Phaeton V8 for about a year. Currently pursuing a RL. I woudl agree with the comments here. When I drove the RL, I thought back to my Phaeton ... except when it came to getting in the rear seat (no offense). The Phaeton is huge. If I remember correctly, I could not touch the rear seating surface while sitting the drivers seat facing forward. Lots of room all around. Obviously, there is a MSRP difference. vwvortex.com is a great site for more info on the Phaeton.

neuronbob

Touché!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Being a 20 year old, the Phaeton is too much of a luxurious car for me. Also, I'm a only 5'8" tall and weigh around 140lbs, so I don't really a large car like the Phaeton. Besides, Parking in crowded parking lots could be another problem.

Chas2

My son went to high school with a guy whose Dad owned a VW dealership. The Dad bought or leased or demoed, I am not sure, a Phaeton W-12 for his wife. Very poor reliability including tranny replacement. It was gone after a year (which may have been a dealer demo, don't know.) Comments were kind of like old Jaguars, wonderful car, when it ran.

FrazTL-S

My neighbor has one with a W12. It's a very comfortable car, but it dosen't stack up to mom's 7 series....

den

i have a carbon gray 2006 RL which i took delivery June 2006, 9k miles and i would like to sell it if you care.

Qest

Your Private Messages (PM's) are turned off so I can't message you.

den

email me at dr@treesdalellc.com

Qatar

I test drove the V8 and W12. You have plenty of room in the back, actually, if your 5.3, you can fully extand your legs. Awesome power and acceleration.
The car didn't sell well, because "why would i pay that much for a VW", if you disregard the brand, the car is pretty good. 2005 Models still used CD based navigations, where you have about 6 CDs for different regions. The seats are superior and super comfortable.
what i liked the most is the drivers ability to adjus the vehicle height and ground clearance, all at your finger tips plus hydraulic doors (no more door slamming)...
My point, the car is really good

CL6

All the money you save buying that car you will spend fixing crappy German engineering like the motorized vent covers...

PortlandRL

I think it was decent-looking car and decadently luxurious. I guess they were reading from the book of Dodge. If they can sell an $11,000 Neon, why not an $80,000 Viper?"

"If we can sell a $15,000 Golf, why not a $100,000 Phaeton?"

While on the topic of slimly-marketed cars, I have seen nary a trace of RL ads but the new MDX is being marketed like mad although I suppose the niche for the MDX is quite a bit wider than that of the RL....

cp3117

I agree somewhat....they should leave this area for their Audi line. Having said that, there is rumour that the phaeton may return to NA soon redesigned like the european model that has been so succesfull. They are saying slightly larger than the passat with V6 TDI etc etc. It will be more aimed at the 5 series, A6, RL etc not the super high end 7series, A8 etc........but once again marketing will be huge and VW in the past has sucked at that except for recently since they changed their NA marketing contract.

cp3117

Yeah its brutal, even their production of the car is horrible. Just look at how they build this thing...I believe those cheap Bentley's where in part produced here.


http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1837641

taitando

I would never buy the Phaeton, as I couldn't bring myself to pay that much for a VW. Similarly to the '05 RL I now have, which wouldn't be sitting in my garage now if the dealer wasn't willing to negotiate the RL's $49k starting price, because I couldn't bring myself to pay that much for an Acura. With that said, if someone were to willingly give out one of these cars, and I could only choose one, I'd probably choose the VDub. I always liked larger sedans with big engines like the A8. And boy, that S8, that's one of my dream cars...

CL6

I'm surprised that you have not learned that all which glitters is not gold.

VW has some of the worst performing products in the entire auto industry.

The Audi A8 does not do well at all (surprise):

http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-te...noforward=true

The excellent A8 is suffering from the huge downturn in the luxury-car sector. Many dealers and customers are frightened to buy them because of the potentially high costs of repair - especially with that unique aluminium body. They're only of interest to Audi dealers - and they won't necessarily pay any more than the (low) going rate.

PortlandRL

That assembly line actually looks really cool but the fact that every car's parts differ can be a bit frightening when it comes time for repairs....

cp3117

Worst performing in the entire industry??? Not sure where you got that from....I wont go into detail but the new GLI beating the TSX in every comparo....new GTI ousting TSX in C&D top 10...New passat 3.6l vs TL and i wont even mention VW's R-series cars. Dont forget this is Honda's elite "Acura division vs little ole VW". Im not flaming Honda, but by using what your saying about VW it doesnt make Honda look that good then.

The VW/Audi group does very well in the world and Audi is a big leader in that area.

Using your same source you should look at who they picked for best new Luxury car...surprise surprise the Audi A8 in the top 3

http://www.channel4.com/4car/best-in...ecutive-3.html

If your looking at reliability for the A8. Your source even gives it a 5star (excellent rating) stating that if there are any problems its usually from neglect of the 2nd or 3rd owners.

http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-te...noforward=true

db22

Has anyone ever worked out what VW was thinking? Are they really trying to steal A8 sales?

taitando

I think VW themselves finally figured out how retarded they were, but it took them awhile. How stupid is it to have a V8 Phaeton with a base price of $66700.00 while at the same time the A8 (non-long wheel base) is $68,130.00? When the spread is that minimal between the two, who wouldn't go for the A8? Let's just say there's a reason why the Phaeton is dead in the U.S. and that Bernhardt guy isn't calling the shots at VW anymore.

Back on topic, I don't think the RL should even be compared because the Phaeton is just in a different class in terms of size and price.

jhr3uva90

I think the Phaeton is a good analogy to the RL. Some people think paying over $45K for an Acura is just as absurd as paying over $60K for a VW.

whealy

When I read CL6’s original post, I was thinking of reliability. Consumer Reports lists the most recent A8 as below average in reliability. Not their lowest mark, but certainly not where you want to be given the vehicles price tag. Where Audi and VW do excel is in building exciting performance vehicles. Although how we all get caught up in idea of a sedan being a sports car is a bit of Jedi mind trick (read m-a-r-k-e-t-i-n-g) to me.

As for the comments about the Phaeton and A8 being the same car, they aren’t. There is a large percentage of parts (can’t remember the number) that are different, including the steel frame in the Phaeton as opposed to the aluminum in the A8. The Phaeton share parts mostly with the Bentley Flying Spur and GT (short wheel base Phaeton only sold in Europe). When you look at it from that perspective, it’s half the cost just missing twin turbos.

As for the comment about each Phaeton being different due to it’s hand made production, that’s true. But isn’t it funny how the sought after uber sports cars are hand built. Seems like that would be a good thing, but I do understand the point.

P.S. In addition to being a past Phaeton owner, I also had an 2001 Audi A6 2.7T and a 2001 Chrysler Prowler (aluminum frame and hand built)

RL06tech

The Phaeton is just proof that luxury cars name trumps engineering every time. It also points out, as in the RL, the law of fastly diminishing returns. All said, the RL is not a 15K better car than a TL (nor are any of its competitiors). For those that can afford paying an extravagant price for marginally better performance or accomodations it doesn't matter, but it definitely is not a measure of value.

CL6

Yeah VW/Audi builds crappy cars. They don't generally hold up too well, they have horrible resale value, and their own dealers don't even want to take those cars when they come off of lease.

Car & Driver and other rags don't have to live with the cars and resale value is never mentioned as a plus or minus. Want to know Blue Book wholesale value on one of those products? Take the lowest value possible then subtract anywhere from 2k to 5k. On the A8 I bet it's 10k back of book.

While one or two 'good' cars might have sneaked out of the assembly line, the vast majority are bad. Doing anything but leasing one of those cars (and getting rid of it before the warranty expires) is not very intelligent.

And that production facility that was cited... sure it looks great but the VW guy who thought all that up and wasted probably a billion dollars on that (in addition to the Veyron) is out of a job with VW I believe.

Trust me, the one thing I dread is a customer who wants to trade in their precious Audi or VW baby for an Acura...

Qest

Don't forget the time VW paid a vast sum for Rolls-Royce and accepted all the negative baggage that came with the deal just to get the name...only to find out that they accidentally did NOT get the Rolls-Royce name. BMW scooped up just the name!

The idea was to have Bugatti and RR and make the best cars in the world. Well, the Veyron is awesome. In my opinion, you couldn't make a better long-term investment than buying a Veyron. Unfortunately, VW loses millions on each Veyron they produce.

CL6

The Veyron appears to be dead in that no new models are planned. There was to be a 'cheap' Veyron but that is gone. And Maybach appears to be dead for MB.

VW got to use the RR name for two years I think until the rights reverted to BMW. D'oh!

BTW I looked in Consumer's 06 car issue and the Phaeton and A8 weren't listed but every other car that was had a rating of either 'worse than average' or 'much worse than average' and in the listing of 'cars to avoid' nearly the entire VW and Audi line-up was represented there.

As I said, they make crappy cars that fall apart.

cp3117

I wouldnt hold to much faith in CR. I subscribe to them but probably not for much longer, at least not when it comes to cars.
Im not to sure where you got your info from but I just checked and there are more Audi's given the highly recommended rating than Acura's. (even after saying this though i still wouldnt trust CR)

When I purchased my new car i used CR and just from their ratings i almost purchased the TSX because its rated so high and the jetta so low. Then i checked their customer satisfaction ratings and the people who owned the jetta had on percentage a higher level of satisfaction than TSX owners. Complaints on jetta where poor leg room, poor radio, noisy engine. While TSX owners complained of tranny problems, brake issues, build quality. Yet they gave the TSX a highly recommended rating and not the VW.......WTF!!!!... lets just say im not to sure anymore how independant they really are.

VW did have issues in the 99-03 range with electrical problems etc but when they redesigned their model line in 05 they apparently changed to the same electrical supplier as Toyota and this seems to have helped.

They are improving alot and i can personally attest to that. Your generalized comment about the whole VW/Audi line being crap is pure false..

db22

Value is a ratio of want versus cost. If you want a fairly exclusive, luxury/sports sedan with high technology then the RL is good value because the TL is not in that catagory. Besides, I think that the RL is easily $15K bettter than a TL.