db22

For the last couple of days I have had the dubious distiction of driving a TL and ove the last couple of years I have been reading here numerous comments regarding the two models. For those of you who bought the RL and paid 10 to 15 grand more than a TL, you still got a bargain. In my opinion the TL is a totally different car, in a different league and there is no comparison. The power difference is minimal and it feels a bit quicker because it doesn't feel as smooth. The suspension is harder, the rattles are louder, the leather is not as soft, it is not a comfortable, it doesn't handle as well, it seems smaller, the dash layout is not as tastefull and it should be $10 to $15 K less. After carefull consideration, I cannot find anything that I prefer in the TL over the RL.
I don't mean to offend any TL owners (and I know a lot of them read the RL forum) but judging from what I've read here, I was expectting a lot more from a TL.

jhr3uva90

I totally agree with you!!! Much love to our TL brethren, though.

Mike_TX

Then there are those of us who have both!

I agree the TL has a much lower lux quotient than the RL, but I don't try to compare them head to head. After all - as you put it - they are very different cars for different missions and different target markets.

I personally like to drive them both, the RL for my pampered side and the TL for my zootier side.

The one single thing that would help the TL feel tons more luxurious IMO would be a smooth idle. Mine (and the several demos and loaners I've driven) has a coarse, buzzy idle. If it just idled quietly and smoothly when I stopped at a traffic light, I'd feel like it was a much nicer vehicle. But it's still a nice car!
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Ernie Golfs

I'm like Mike, I own both. I've driven both on some nasty winding roads and IMO the TL handles better. I think the RL needs a suspension mod or a stiffer sway bar to match the TL. The RL feels like it has more body roll. The advantage the RL has is SH-AWD it works great in bad weather and high speed turns, 70+ MPH.

I like to drive both cars. They both perform great. The RL is a quieter smoother riding car. Fit and finish is superior on the RL. I've had the RL 16 months, the TL 6 weeks. Is the RL worth 15K more then the TL? Only time will tell.

static808

I also have both, 05 RL, 04 TL. The RL is a true cruiser. You can easily drive hours upon hours and be totally comfortable. The stereo system is top notch. The TL is sportier and a little faster. The TL has more "punch" compared to the RL. Overall both cars are great. The RL seats could be worth the extra $$$. They are superior than the TL.

db22

[QUOTE=Ernie Golfs] The RL feels like it has more body roll. The advantage the RL has is SH-AWD it works great in bad weather and high speed turns, 70+ MPH.
I have a dilemma with this: I agree the RL is great at cornering at 70+ but you don't get good corners on freeways and the good corners are on roads with minimal speed limits. I, therefore, keep getting tickets for going over 70 on the streets but I set cruise on the freeway at 70! This RL is costing me more in tickets because of its main attribute.

Mike_TX

[QUOTE=db22]Get a good radar detector!
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neuronbob

Hey, don't knock the TL too much , it is an awesome car, especially in A-Spec form. It's like playing with a Hot Wheels car, it drives so well.

I am hoping to sharpen up the RL's ride similarly with the A-Spec pacakge. With that, decent rubber, and SH-AWD, the handling should be almost as good. The RL is defiitely 15k better than the TL. We'll see, and you all know I'm going to comment on it....

Touge

Looking forward to you A-Spec review Bob. It's either that or tein's for me.

db22

[QUOTE=Mike_TX]Get a good radar detector!
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I have never been one for radar detectors but maybe it is time. Cops in my city have radar on in the car all of the time and will even come and chase you if they are going in the opposite direction. I don't know much about Radar, Lidar and laser, do you have recommendations for which to use or is it varied by which state and city?

Mike_TX

[QUOTE=db22]Most good detectors these days respond to all known bands of radar, as well as laser (LIDAR is just another name for laser). The only problem with laser is that if you hear the alert, you're probably already "had". In a few instances you'll pick it up as a "reflection" from other cars, but generally not. At least you know when you've been nailed.

Instant-on radar is almost as bad ... the alarm may sound only when you're nailed. But radar isn't as narrowly-focued as laser, and you'll often get alerts as police clock other drivers. Police who leave the radar going all the time (most cases) give you miles of warning.

A radar detector IMO is like a garage door opener or cruise control ... once you use it for awhile, you don't want to ever be without it. You come to realize just how often you are being radared, and I think it makes you a more alert driver.

I use Escort Passport 8500's (one in both my cars), and I think they're excellent.

The only caution is that if you live (or drive) in VA or D.C., they are not legal there.
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Rob144

Those RL seats are one of the key factors in choosing it over the TL. In fact, the RL seats were better than those in the M35, Lexus GS, Lexus ES, and the G35 as well. My wife thought sitting in the back seat of the RL over the hump was better than the front seat of the base M35. So its comfy in the back, too!

Rob144

TriniBwoy

Paying $15K more for the things you mentioned doesn't seem to worth it at all. Given the number of TL's on the road, alot of ppl agree with me. Also, the RL and TL is almost the same size, RL is slower than the TL, it looks like a Honda Accord with a nice suit and the TL gets better gas mileage. $15K more for that?...no thank you. RL is a nice car, but not worth that kind of many compared to a TL.

jhr3uva90

The TL is an excellent car. . . for the price. For someone who has an eye for detail and is blessed to be able to spend more on a car, the RL is truly worth it. And sales do not equal greatness. If that is the case, then the Toyota Camry must be the best sedan ever made.

pimpin-tl

We also own both now. I definitely agree that the RL is a cruiser. The seats are awesome. Wish I had those in my TL which has pretty hard seats but they are comfy too. The reason why she got the RL is because the TL was a bit too rough for her so she likes the RL better.

Mike_TX

Everything's relative, isn't it?

But if everyone felt that way, NO luxury cars would ever be sold, since once you get past good basic transport, everything else is just gravy. And some people would just as soon skip the gravy. Me, I like gravy.
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i_mobile

I guess you own a Hyundai and not a TL then.

jftjr

Mmmm.....gravy.

Mike_TX

Gravy on donuts. Extra mmmmmm.
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TriniBwoy

Aren't we defensive

TriniBwoy

TL (Total Luxury) sells pretty well actually

drewspimpin

we own both, an 04 TL (mine) and an 06 RL (wifes). Making the choice depends on who you are. I got a good deal on my TL and the RL was still selling around MSRP (in 04 mind you). I wanted the 6spd, no question. That is what got me.

Now that we got 10k off msrp for the RL, I jumped on it (3 weeks ago). If I had the cash for both, my sole decision would be whether I wanted a 6speed or an automatic. Both cars are awesome!

I think you can get an 06 TL with nav for 30k and an RL for 40k around here brand new.

Mike_TX

Well, although your smiley is noted, the TL ain't a luxury car. Sorry to those who think it is, but as a past owner of several Lexuses and BMW's, I can tell you the TL just ain't a luxury car regardless how you interpret the letters.

The TL is a fairly mainstream, mid-sized family 4dr sedan dressed in nice clothes. It can't really be called a sporty car because it's FWD, nose heavy, soft in the suspension and a bit short on power, and at $35,000 it's not in the luxury leagues, either, so it's somewhere in between.

Note that I HAVE an '06 TL, so I'm not bashing it - just being honest and realistic. I bought it for what it is ... a dependable, nice-looking hauler with decent zoom-zoom, as Mazda would say.
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pimpin-tl

The TL is a Entry level Sport/Luxury car.

neuronbob

pimpin is right, Mike. The TL (whose letters mean absolutely nothing, by the way) is indeed an entry luxury sedan. It is marketed as such, with some sporting intentions.

Mike_TX

Yessir, I agree, but if the other poster was referring to true luxury cars, we have to be honest with ourselves and admit the TL is not one. Luxury cars are Lexus LS 430's (now 460's), M-B E and S classes, Beemer 7's, etc. "Entry luxury" is a marketing term, invented to make a car more attractive.

Few people would have called my '04 Maxima a "luxury car", but it had "luxury" equipment you can't even get on the TL... like power folding outside rearview mirrors, power tilt and telescoping steering wheel with tiltaway feature and seat move-back at exit, heated steering wheel, full-screen trip computer display, auto volume control on the stereo, etc., etc. In fact, TL owners generally sneer at the Maxima as a second-class citizen of the car world, but it beats the TL in some luxury categories.

Again, not trying to be ugly here, as I am a TL owner, but anyone putting TL's in the same class as S-class Benzes (or frankly, even the RL) is just wrong. We can agree the TL is "sporty", and it's a step toward the luxury car experience, but I still have to maintain it isn't a real "luxury car".

But that's just me.
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pimpin-tl

Well the Maxima might have more features. But it is also a POS. The last best year was 03 for the Maxima.

Mike_TX

We're getting 'way off-topic here, but I really, really have to disagree with that statement. My Maxima was a joy, and to tell the truth I wish my TL were more like it!

But to each his own ...
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jhr3uva90

Actually, "TL" did initially stand for "Touring Luxury." "RL" originally meant "Refined Luxury" and "CL" mean "Contemporary Luxury." That being said, I think only the RL can come close to being considered a luxury car.

neuronbob

I need to find my old post on the topic in which the letters were proven to mean nothing at all. This is old lore on this site.

You're right on both counts. On the first count, anyone comparing a TL to an E-class is smoking crack or has never seen or driven one of these cars. On the second count, another example of this is......."Crossover" is simply marketing speak to make a station wagon more fashionable.

jhr3uva90

Here's an old review of the 1996 TL, which states that TL stands for Touring Luxury:

http://www.thebiglot.com/reviews/199..._TL_REVIEW.asp

Not only does the TL not compare to the Mercedes E Class, but I don't know if it would even compare to a near-luxury car like the new Lexus ES 350.

pimpin-tl

Maxima has a ton of quality problems and its very cheap inside. I have owned Nissans most of my driving time. And will no longer own one now because there quality went to crap. Like I said, the 03 Maxima was the last best year for them. 04+ they got the Renault in them and it really shows.

neuronbob

OK, I cry "Uncle!" here. Where were these reviews the last time the debate was hashed out in 3G TL? The 1996 RL review, which I found, states that RL stands for "refined luxury". BTW, thanks for pointing me to that site, it has some great old car reviews.

Don't worry too much about the TL and what it compares to, I am positive that Acura will make it the top of the heap again in two years. It took two years for the other guys to catch up to the 3G TL with toys and power. I am no Acura fanboy but based on their recent experience, Acura will NOT screw around with their bread and butter sedan if they wish to stay alive.

Now as far as their flagship...sigh....that's another story.

jhr3uva90

I'm just here to help my Acura-driving brethren!

Mike_TX

I think you're working off internet lore, Pimp, whereas I actually owned the car for 3 years and 45,000 miles and drove it daily.

If you compare the TL and Maxima, you'll quickly see:

- Maxima's leather is much better quality
- Maxima is roomier inside
- Maxima has more trunk space
- Maxima's engine has more torque, is smoother and more responsive
- Maxima has nice 18' alloys and wide rubber
- Maxima's outward visibility is better
- Maxima has more standard or available equipment
- Maxima doesn't rattle (mine sure didn't!)

etc., etc.

I repeat - the TL is a nice car, but I've owned a 6th Gen Max AND an '06 TL and that makes me a little better judge of which is superior than someone who just doesn't like them.

Many 5th Gen Maxima owners seem to hate the 6th Gen (for reasons I can't fathom, except perhaps jealousy), but the fact is it's a better car in most respects. As for the '03, I had a 4th Gen Maxima, but skipped the 5th Gen after trying it out and not being overly fond of it.

I would have another 6th gen Maxima right now if Nissan hadn't fugged up the '07 by making a CVT tranny standard equipment.

Now, if you just wanna say you LIKE the TL better, I'm good with that, but general throwdowns just tend to make some of us grumpy ...
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pimpin-tl

1) Maxima leather much better quality?!!?!?!? LOL I doubt that. Especially since my G35 leather was poor quality. Wore a hole in 25k of miles when it shouldn't have.

2) Roomier yes.

3) Of course its a bigger car. More trunk is always good.

4) Hmm sorry but the engine is definitely not smoother. The TL has a quieter engine. At idle the VQ is smooth, but when actually driving it is not. The 3.0 VQ was the smoothest VQ to be made. The 3.5L is a bit rough. I have owned 7 VQ powered Nissan cars. 3 were the 3.5L.

5) It had 245x45x18 compared to our TL 235x45x17 or 235x45x18 Aspec.. Wow big difference. lol. The Maxima came with crappier tires though.

6) That is your personal opinion.

7) Yep, it has some. The TL has some.

8) Yep, but most of the complaints are on rattles on that car per the forum. And quality issues.

I may not like them, but I have owned more Nissans than you Mike.

I also have owned more Maximas than you and know there complete history. The CVT tranny is a work of art. I think it was good that car got it. I am also a co-editor for Sport Z Magazine / Nissan Sport.

Well, we knew it would happen Mike. Just like your friends at freshalloy. You would start to complain about the TL. If you don't like it, go buy another Maxima. You can easily get a slightly used one without the CVT.

neuronbob

(whistles)

OK guys, I know you're passionate about Maximas and Infinitis, but there's no need for namecalling and this thread is WAY off topic. As my mom used to say when her six boys were mixing it up in the back...."don't make me come back there and whup you!"

Seriously....please be reasonable. I know Mike likes his TL as much as anybody here, otherwise he'd have traded out already. pimpin, I know you like yours. Can we leave it at that, please?

Mike_TX

Sorry! My bad.
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pimpin-tl

Sometimes I get worked up on topics such as these. And its hard for me to stop sometimes. Mike knows that obviously! Sorry Bob & Mike.

TriniBwoy

Of course the TL can't compare to S-class, 7-series, Lexus LS, etc. Neither thus the RL BTW.

Those cars you've listed are true luxury cars, not doubt about that. I was just being a bit silly with the TL stands for Total Luxury. Now to say the TL is a bit short on power is quite puzzling to me. There must be a reason why car and driver, for example, complain about torque steer on TL's.

Also, sorry to do this, but the Maximas are not that great. And now someone can get a 07 Altima and say it's a Maxima...they look pretty much identical which is not a good thing.