db22

I have been reading re: the ILX and there are not too many glowing reports. I also sat in one and was dissapointed and misled by the press releases and advertising.
What I had hoped for was a ILX/TSX sized car with all of the features of the RL. Honda doesn't need another small car and if there is a niche to fill then put a Honda badge on it. What ACURA need is a small car with the latest in tech/ent including ACC, CMBS, LKAS, noise cancelation etc but with the quality of an RL. E.G. the quality of the Milano leather in my MDX or the leather in my RL is totally different from every other Acura.
My dissapointment is that the ILX seems like a Honda and I'm looking for an RL but smaller.
Acura is missing its mission and why does quality go down just because the size does?

ceb

Why? Because the US market isn't mature enough to accept an expensive small car. We continue to have a "bigger is better is more expensive" mentality.

In Europe you can order the lowliest VW, Audi, BMW or MB with all the gizmos available on the larger cars.

oo7spy

The car starts at $25k. $23k less than the RL. Did you really expect to get a brand new small RL for 48% off? The ILX isn't 48% smaller.

db22

The problem is not the price. The problem is that when I want a small luxury car I would like to think that Acura offered one. I don't mind paying $42k for it if it's an "Acura" but at $25 -30k you get a Honda with an Acura badge.
I know someone will retort that the RL is a Honda with an Acura badge but marketing should be lifting the Acura image not merging it with Honda.

So Acura still doesn't make a high quality car smaller than an RL or a MDX.

oo7spy

That is correct. Which Japanese brand does?

IanVS

I'd bet that most people who are willing to spend upwards of $40k on a car are business people who want to be able to take a few coworkers or clients to lunch once in a while. Small cars are not very well suited to that, quite apart from the whole American "big cars are better" image thing

Robot919

My impression (at least from the advertisements I have seen and commercials on TV) of the ILX is that the target market is people who are in their 20's and single. (I saw a slogan on an advertisement that said something like: This is what your dad would be driving if he didn't have you).

My guess is that when these people are looking at a car, they care more about performance rather than amenities. I haven't driven an ILX, but I have read reviews and they said that the 6-MT ILX gives you a good driving experience (I wish I knew how to drive manual so I could test this myself).

As for the "quality", the reason it's not the same as the RL is because of the price (as 007spy stated earlier). If a car that costs ~30k had the same amenities as a car that cost ~50k, I would be mad if I owned the more expensive car.

I think of the ILX as a classy car for young people. It is a car, but not something like a Scion Tc (I hate that car). It has some nice features, but not "luxury" features.

oo7spy

^

It's definitely luxurious enough to impress the majority of young adults. I think it will compete very well with the Lexus IS, and notice the people who drive those.

It's an entry level sedan. Its sole purpose is to get people who can't afford most Acuras into an Acura. (Think MB C-class, the poser car of kids who want to be noticed.) Once you own one, then you will probably be able to work your way up the brand until you are a geezer who can afford an RL.

db22

I understand all of the opinions and postings and I can afford an RL but if I want a smaller car with at least the features and quality of an RL then, it appears, that I am out of luck.
It's a market segment that Acura could exploit, I understand that it is risky but somebody sold them on the ZDX experiment and they went for that.

oo7spy

I can understand what you are saying, but I can't think of a make that has proven that business model could work. Even the most fully loaded 3-series or C-class won't hold a candle to a base 7-series or S-class. It just seems par for the course.

TampaRLX-SH

I can only think of a few boutique cars in North America that would fit your description db22 (if not your taste). Something like Audi TT, Lexus SC and ummmmm...errrrr. Well, not a market segment either succeeding or explored.

And I agree with above dialog that US and European / Global perceptions that smaller, and even fuel efficient does not always produce lower content or lesser quality (materials or assembly) models.

But the flip side of that in the US that quality, content, power and size are typically summized to luxury / flagship marks. The size and power components are the Achilles Heel of why the RL did not succeed as a flagship model.

I think Acura would have more success with a compact to mid size coupe / coupe like sedan with the caliber content, power and materials of the RL in the 38K+ range than the 45K+ experiment called ZDX.

ceb

And herein lies the problem. This perception that people should buy the biggest car they can afford. Europeans have long since learned that you can have a small luxury car with all the amenities of a "real" luxury car.

oo7spy

db, I saw a C55 AMG parked next to me today and thought of this thread. I was thinking M3 when I made my other posts but assumed you wanted at least 4 doors. The C55 seems to fit your description.

db22

C55 is an interesting option but even if I bought one I don't think that I could afford to maintain it! I have heard nothing good about maintenance costs for a Merc.
The discussion re: EU cars is very true: the 2013 Ford Fusion, when loaded, will probably have more features than the RLX.

oo7spy

I thought your were looking for quality. The Tech ILX has quite a few features.

db22

I did not find any "quality" in the ILX and the Fusion has way more features with equal quality. The Fusion is what has been described on this thread: a smaller EU car with all of the features of a luxury car, the EU Fusion is Fords top car.

oo7spy

But your complaint was that the ILX did not have RL quality. If the Fusion has similar quality to the ILX, then you have not gotten anywhere except more features.

lumpulus

Well, I for one understand what db22 is saying...sorry you don't get it, 007.

If only they would bring back the RSX in a coupe and sedan with an SH-AWD option, THEN, IMO, they would have a huge hit.

db22

BTW - I am talking of the 2013 Fusion Platinum AWD which is the Mondeo in EU and yes I did get somewhere: I have a better handling, more equipped car for less money with equal or better quality than the ILX.
The ILX does nothing to augment the Acura higher than Honda quality image in fact, it degrades it.

terdonal

Well it looks like you found what you are looking for in a smaller replacement for your RL. Up here it would still have cost a couple of thousand more even with the employee discount they are giving at Ford when you add in Navi and moon roof. Their 5.79% financing over 3 years kind of negates the $3139 discount versus the 1/4% I got for 3 years. Good luck.

IanVS

I just accepted a job for a company that does a lot of work with domestic auto makers like Ford and Chrysler. I told them I have an RL, and they responded with, "We try to drive customer friendly cars."

That got me to thinking: if I did want to try to drive something domestic but keep the same quality (not bells&whistles) as an RL, what would I get? I've been thinking about it for a while, and I just can't come up with anything that I'd be okay with driving. I've seen a lot of ads for the Lincoln cars, but I just am not a fan of the styling. I guess maybe the CTS-V would be an option. Any other thoughts? I'm not going to get rid of my RL, this is just a thought experiment.

oo7spy

Hmmm.... I just built a fully loaded Fusion Titanium AWD and it came out to $37,500. The fully loaded 5MT, 2.0L ILX (for some reason more expensive than the 6MT 2.4L ) came out to $32,500. And still, I can't seem to forget this snippet of your OP.It also doesn't appear that the Fusion has CMBS or ANC. So you are still getting a "low" quality sedan and paying $5k more for LKAS, park-assist, ACC, and AWD. You seem quick to dismiss the ILX as inferior, but then turn around and quickly accept the Fusion as a solution?

oo7spy

Already have a thread for that. https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=logical

Page 3 is where the up-to-date conversation is.

TonyCD

The upcoming Lincoln LTZ is one possibility: the next Mondeo/Fusion with nicer styling, pricier interior and more gizmos. Google up the pictures; there are a lot of them public now, and I think it looks much sweeter than its predecessor. Also will probably be available in AWD and/or hybrid flavors, since the current one is.

There's also the CTS-V, yes. Our moderator NeuronBob adores his. Of course, now you're talking both a higher price and a waaaaay higher level of power than either of the other cars. It's debatable whether it's even in the same class.

db22

I see your point but the ILX and the 2013 Fusion are both new and the Fusion appears to be getting a lot of attention while the ILX is another "also ran" ignorable car in a crowded market place. I have not seen the Fusion yet but I have seen the ILX and the ILX did strike me as a car between the Accord and the Civic.
We will have to wait and see but in reality, I am not going to buy a car unless it is better than my RL not to mention the fact that my RL is paid for so I love my payments.

IanVS

You're right, the new Fusion looks pretty good. Ford seem to have ditched their current design language completely, and incorporated some from Aston Martin. I thought they sold off that brand . . .

Maybe one day I can buy domestic after all.

JAB00

The ILX I think is geared for the college age set. It's too underpowered with so so interior qualities. Acura can never be a true luxury name-plate if it's entry level car is less luxurious and more underpowered than a modestly loaded VW Passat, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima or the host of other compact sedans.