jwaters943

If the RL didn't exist, what car would you buy and why? What vehicle was your "runner up" choice?

TIA!

TampaRLX-SH

If I could only chose from what is on the market right now, and keeping in my parameters that I used for the RL (AWD & <50K), I likley would look at the Audi A6 (love Audi interiors, as much as I love the RLs) or I am also impressed with the size and feel of the Volvo S8. I would also likley miss Honda reliability.

neuronbob

This question comes up periodically. If no RL, I would have kept my 3G TL or considered a 2G Caddy CTS.

geronimomoe

Audi A6 however I have reliability/dealer service concerns..

Or

G35X with the sport package... I know, I know, the G35 is more of a competitor for the TL, wrt performance. However, you can't get a TL with all wheel drive yet.... Downside to the G35 is the toe room for rear passengers is tight and the interior is a bit smaller than the RL..

larrynimmo

M35 or ES350

both cars are similar in pricing, quality & value to what the RL offers. I like AWD, but I never had it before, and could do without it.

geronimomoe

Dang, forgot about the M35X....

dwboston

Audi A6. If I had the $ then it would be an Audi S6 or S8. Have to have AWD in New England and my wife already drives an SUV.

VOdoc

TL for me. A bit too small and creaky though. And now that I've sampled SH-AWD, no way could I be happy with FWD or RWD.

Would never consider Beemer (an overpriced cliche in SoCal), Mercedes (a Chrysler with German pricing), or Volvo (a Ford in Scandinavian guise). Infiniti does not float my boat as their local dealer is a scoundrel and their styling reeks. Audi does not work for me as their new grille is fugly and I remember too well their horrid reliability of the past decades. Lexus? A Toyota with $20K added to the price tag.

Good thing there's the RL! Just don't screw it up, Acura.

kgd

If I were to buy new today I would look closely at the Audi S6. Probably not a fair comparison as it is close to twice as much with decent options, but that is a great looking and performing car. If the exterior gets updated a bit from the pictures I have seen I would consider the RL. I really like the changes to the interior of the RL. Not sure if I could get past the reliability issues on the Audi also.

Ibn Rushd

Well this is going to sound ridiculous, (not so ridiculous because of the post above) but the story is pretty funny. The runner up if there was no RL was actually the BMW M5.


Again, the RL is my uncles. But i believe the story was that he was trading up and he liked the 5 series, so he went to look at them, then fell in love with the M5. He wanted to test drive it but they would not let him. (Strike one). Since the M5 was a pretty rare breed, he had to deal with a specific sales manager for it, in which case he found the sales person to be completely annoying and more of a nuissance.
(The salesman actually said "vroom vroom" when describing the M button, which my uncle found funny).

Anyway, after that since he hated the other cars in it's class, (for some reason he didn't want a normal 5 series, it was either M5 or nothing). Anyway, it took a lot of convincing, but I eventually got him to check out the RL, which he was okay with (i love it more than he does i'm sure), but since he's an accountant, when i got him thinking about how his Odyssey was going in, and he could walk out with a two top of the line Acuras as opposed to one BMW... (MDX + RL = M5 price wise..or close to i believe), he figured it'd be better to have two nicer cars than one really nice one.

So he went to Acura, figuring that unless he got a killer deal, he would have gone with the M5 (It's not that he's greedy, trust me, but i guess he really liked it)...the Acura salesman gave him 8k off of the sticker plus four free winter tires, as well as Aspec suspension and kit.

So all in all, if there was no Acura, he'd probably have an M5.


And in all honesty, if i wasn't there myself to see it all, i probably would not have believed it either.

robarsan

I would definitely go back to Audi and get the S4 again or the A6. The Audi service dept at the dealer I go to is top notch. They have a car rental service at the dealership so there is never an issue with getting a "free loaner" when the car is being serviced. The Acura dealer tried to get me to buy into a preferred service contract to guarantee a loaner.

The only thing I would do different is to not keep the Audi past the warrantee. The service rate (for the $4) is on par with the Porche rate.
Audi has one of those designs that never gets old and the cars are rock solid and a blast to drive.

kirbyflorida

Tl-s

lumpulus

Something else Japanese-made with AWD, but not an MDX or Pilot(too big) My G/F already has an RDX, which originally was my first choice, but she wanted it.

lland

Good thread...When I bought the RL, I went to the dealer with every intention of buying an RDX but after a long test drive, decided I just didn't like it (too small, too "rough", some cheap-feeling parts (back seat folding mechanism), etc.). I took out a new MDX as well but already have an '04 and figured I didn't need another (although I liked it a lot). I also drive a Honda Pilot. Nice, but not appointed like an Acura. I also looked at the BMW 330xi. I would have driven an Infiniti but the nearest dealer is just too far to be convenient (although I did consider the M, G, and FX). The one thing I wanted was AWD so that took a number of cars out of the running. The problem is, that similarly equipped, most of the competition turns out to be somewhat more expensive. The RL offered the best bang for the buck. However, even though I didn't need another, if not for the RL, the MDX probably would have won out.

LL

Rob144

I'd probably be driving an Infiniti M35.

jftjr

Honestly, I have no idea. Not much else hits the sweet spot. I drove a few other cars and hated them before getting my RL... I find the 3-series BMW's too small, the 5-Series are overpriced, and the Mercedes E class is also overpriced.... and the nav systems in any of them are garbage.

In all honesty, I probably would have gotten another Accord.... although I was looking at Saab 9-5's, which I loved, but they were just too pricey for what you were getting at the time.

Now, if Saab makes good on its promise to come out with an AWD 9-5x, I'll be on it like white on rice...

geronimomoe

You mean white on Swede?

TampaRLX-SH

Saab is launching a dynamic AWD system that mimics SHAWD. We'll see how close they get. Saab impresses me for the value. An associate has a turbo model that does very nicely for 28K.

g0df8the12

A S4 for me. Love the looks inside out on Audi's. Gotta get the AWD feature too!!

jwaters943

Saab will be offering XWD (prounced cross-wheel drive) and a more powerful turbo-charged V6 on 9-3 Aero Sedan & SportCombi later this year. XWD is a Haldex-sourced AWD system. While this system can vary the amount of torque sent to each rear wheel, it can not accelerate the outside wheel faster like SH-AWD. On the plus side, it can send up to 100% of the engine torque to the rear. SH-AWD can only send 70% of the torque to the rear, with up to 100% of that torque going to one wheel.

FWIW, both Audi and BMW will be releasing updated versions of their AWD systems (Quattro & xDrive respectively), in about a year with "torque-vectoring" similar to that of SH-AWD.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/14/t...future-of-awd/

johnhayd

I would have a hard time replacing the RL: My main reason for buying it was the cmbs. I'm not sure if there is any car in it's price range where you can get a system like it. One of the volvo's may have it, but the local dealers are too far away to bother. I know the M35 comes close but it doesn't actually brake automatically. In the end I'd probably get the M35 rear drive version, not M35X. The GS was too small/ too little headroom inside. I had a 528I before I bought the RL, loved it , but didn't like to repair bills as it became older.

jwaters943

I used to own a 528i too! Still the only car I regret selling. How would you say the RL compares with your BMW?

Treblig

I would be driving an Audi, most likely an A6.

GoHawks

Cadillac CTS

I had originally cross-shopped the GS when I purchased my RL, but I'm not so sure anymore.

While I respect the M35x, it's never been a head turner for me. I actually like the G35 better.

With my new job, I am given a generous car allowance and I'm expected to drive a relatively newer car (4 years old or less) which might push me towards possibly leasing, assuming I could live within the mileage requirements.

If I went that route, I might consider a 5 series or an Audi as I wouldn't have to worry about out of warranty repairs.

dmaster3

probably a BMW 335i or a 5 series

static808

Probably the BMW 335xi since it has most of the stuff the RL has and isn't $60K like the loaded 5 series. Infinti M35x and Lexus GS350 didn't make me see them as "the car" and I'd rather spend the $$ on a 3series. Would love to get the Lexus LS460 but that's $66K with a big discount so its out of my range.

jjtags

Although I'm not an SUV guy, probably the MDX. Other also-rans are the A6, MB E350 4Matic, and the Infiniti M35X. Lately, maybe the new Caddy CTS joins the list. If I could afford it... the Lexus LS460 would be a strong contender.

Given that most of us have gripes about any substitute we suggest for our beloved RL's, it speaks volumes about the reliability, quality, and value of our cars. I personally love my car and any thoughts of updating to a new RL early are now out of the question. I just hope that the new FMC RL in 2011 model year will be better than this mid model reskin...

gavine

If you asked this question again in about 6-months, I wonder how many would say Hyndai Genesis?

lindros2

2009 Audi A4, 2007+ Audi A6, 2007+ Infiniti M35/M45, or now I'd even consider the 2008+ Cadillac CTS.

jwaters943

You know, I'm REALLY impressed by what I've seen/heard of the Genesis. With that said, I seriously doubt I'd buy one when it really comes down to it. I'm the furthest thing from a brand snob there is, but I still would have a hard time driving a $35-40k Hyundai. I'd also be concerned about resale value and reliability. Hyundai's have come a long way, but the Genesis platform and engine are unproven.

I wish Hyundai well and I think Honda/Acura could really learn a thing or two from them in terms of taking greater risk with vehicle development and not always playing it safe. Who would have thought 10 years ago that Hyundai would build a V8 RWD luxury sedan before Acura?

static808

yeah, the new CTS looks good, forgot to add that one. Definitely with the new direct-injection V6. Priced pretty decent too, although the wood is too shiny..I guess I'm too picky..

As for Hyundai, they have plenty of cash to burn on the Genesis experiment. Hyundai is a HUGE conglomerate. When 1,300 Lexus GS350's get purchased on a monthly basis, I can't see that many people going to Hyundai, but I'm no soothsayer.

VOdoc

Funny, there were several mentions of Saab. I've had 2 in the past, a 1999 9-3 stick and a 2001 9-5 SE 6 cylinder automatic. At the time, I thought they were both pretty decent cars, especially for the price.

I picked up my 2004 TL a couple of weeks before the lease was up on the 9-5. When I drove the Saab after spending the previous 2 weeks in my new TL, I swear the thing sounded like a truck (a jet truck?) and rode like a model T. No more Saabs for me.

Re: Hyundai, when I met my wife she had an '84. It was the worst POS you ever saw. A real deathtrap. Rusted through within 4 years. That made a lifelong impression, let me tell you. I understand that Hyundai has improved a lot in 20+ years, but still. They can put as much lipstick on that pig as they like, I'm never buying.

Cadillac? I can't get past a couple of issues there. First, they are American-made, and for the last 30 years, every time I have decided to give American automakers yet another chance I have been sorely disappointed. Second, the piggish and blingy Escalade defines that brand. Need I say more?

There you have it--back to the RL, with TL as a not-so-close second.

jftjr

I can't possibly consider a Cadillac. I owned a 93 ETC and a 94 STS, and while they had some very good points to them (fit and finish were good, Northstar was a great pulling engine, very comfortable, great ride, lots of room) ultimately both of those cars needed full engines at less than 100K miles (66K for the STS...)!

The Caddy dealers were not great at all, either. My dealer insisted upon replacing the ETC engine with a USED engine -- under Caddy's factory extended warranty? Cadillac CS said they were within their rights to do so... and I said "No way" and wound up settling the matter by trading into the STS... which blew its engine a year later. And it's not like I was hot-rodding it....

That engine was replaced (after I had a loaner car for 29 days, they got it done one day before lemon law....) and I immediately traded the car (with a $4K loss) for a Saab 9-5 2.0t which I adored.

So, I don't care how much better Caddys are supposedly these days, GM still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

GoHawks

Reminds me of when my parents bought their one and only new car. A '91 Cadillac Brougham D'Elegance. I think it was well over $33K at the time.

It went back to the dealer three times within the first month to address various fit and finish issues. We actually gave the service manager a 3 page list.

Things like:

ill-fitting trim pieces

caulk/weatherstripping sloppily applied around the doors so that you could see it between the panel gaps when the door was closed (and then they applied the pin-striping over it!).

Wind noise (pretty loud)

You know what he said?

"You guys are being too picky about your car".

$33K was a lot of money then. Heck, it's still a lot of money.

Can you imagine someone at Lexus saying that?

Riddler2222

Lexus GS350

Rob144

Audi A6 (though that would be a hard one to slip past the wifey, who's parents had an Audi that gave them no end of trouble).

I'd also have considered a slitghtly used E-Class, though I never did test drive one during the search that led me to the RL.

And a slightly used 3-series coupe (previous body style). The one I drove put a smile on my face that I tried to hide from the car salesman! I smiled equally when I first drove an RL.

Rob144

Chuck091279

M35x, though I hear fuel economy is horrible.

jwaters943

The upcoming Lincholn MKS looks pretty nice IMO:
http://www.lincoln.com/reachhigher/?...rHome_20080128

What do you guys think?

nore03

Either the IS350 or the M35x. Most likely the M35 since the IS to waaaay to small for anyone.

jftjr

I think we might have found a front end of a car that just may be uglier than the '09 RL's.