clangjr

OK, so last night was the first time I drove the RL in snow. I came from an Audi, which had superior performance in the snow, even on all-season tires. I expected similar performance from the RL. Boy was I wrong. The RL didn't even get me off of my street before I went into a curb. Driving slowly. In only an inch and a half of JUST snow. It also didn't seem to get forward traction very well.

Anyone else disappointed with the performance of this car in the snow?? I have seriously just about had it with the continuous dissapointments with this car.
Chuck

Treblig

Wow, your experience is certainly different from those here:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3313

lflorack

Not me. We normally have quite a bit of snow around here (Rochester, NY area) and my RL is and has been rock-solid in the snow -- even with the OEM tires. BTW, my wife will tell you I'm not afraid to push it -- even in the snow.

bkw

Yeah, totally different experience from me as well. I once had owned a very modified A4 (pre-ESP) and the RL performs much better in the snow that that. Though the A4 was a bit more fun to drive in the white stuff.

What kind of tires do you have? The Michelins that came on our RL sucked in the snow too. Get some M3's if you plan on driving through serious snow.

During the blizzard of 06 (worst snow here in the ny area ever), we were caught out in the middle of the storm about 100 miles from home in our RL equipped with M3's, and my flu ridden pregnant wife riding shotgun. Got us home without incident.

Did I forget to mention that I love this car?

Rob L

Your problem I think isn't the car but the tires. The OEM all seasons flat out SUCK in snow.

I drove yesterday on some snow roads (I'd say the same 1.5" or so of snow) and it was fine but I wasn't going at any decent speed. When I did give it a bit of juice (meaning closer to the speed limit) I could feel the car want to slide. I should get snow tires like the M3s but I think if I get some it won't snow and I don't want to fork out the cash if that happens. Plus, I rarely drive the car since i car pool into work. hehehe

FN P90

I live in Minnesota and LOVE my 2005 RL.

I'm using the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 tires. They are great in snow and on ice! In heavy snow I usually turn off the traction control, but leave it on for highway driving. These Dunlop tires are great for high speed driving and great for cornering too.

Chas2

FWIW, we had our first snow in Virginia, a sloppy 1.5". My wife wanted to drive the RL because she had to go 25 miles into the "boonies" of Fairfax Station to pick up a friend who was afraid to drive her car (Jaguar XJ). My wife reported the car was rock solid and very confidence inspiring...

Michelin PAX tires.

sotiri

wow, if you have PAX tires, then you have tech package.
there are so few, how do you like yours?
(I have 06 tech)

Chas2

Love it! I am a gadget guy, and the ACC and CMBS are great! The 06 tech pack car is very comfortable. I am sure I will curse the PAX when I have to replace them.

I have also had a dealer confirm that I CANNOT upgrade to the A-Spec suspension because of the PAX, but no one knows why. I was disappointed at that, but only found out after I bought the car, and found this web site and started reading neuron Bob waxing poetic about the A-Spec.

It is only subjective, but I did think the the PAX rode and handled better than the non PAX. Maybe I was trying to rationalize buying the ACC and CMBS during purchase. They also gave me a great deal on the car, which I do credit this site for turning me on to the 06 deals. Otherwise, I would not have considered the car because $50+K was too much for me, and I was looking at a TL or TL-S.

How do you like yours?

sotiri

I luv mine as well.
I think the pax drives better than the non pax also, I throughly tested both before I took the tech with pax, and the pax seemed to drive more spirited. I think it could be because the pax tires perform more like low profile tires (due to the displacement of air with the donut).
Personally I dont think I will want to drive another car in the future without the CMBS and ACC. both have saved me from idiots on the road (including myself when becoming distracted) and while driving on the xpressways, the ACC is just so relaxing to use.

kmcheney

I also have the 06with Tech and purchased it in No. VA. I love the set up and would do it again.

lsbuffs

I'm in Denver where is snows once a week. I'd rather drive my RL than my wife's MDX on snow/ice. It's all the tires. If you're still using the OEM, that's the issue. Those tires, even on the RL, are downright scary on snow/ice IMHO.

nyjohnchan

A lot of people critizied the PAX tires because they are expensive to replace. But don't forget, we are paying for safety. When you are going at 85-100 on the highway and have a sudden blowout, the pax tires will save you and your families lifes. At 300? dollars a tire is a smal price to pay compare to your life. My 2 cents.

sotiri

I have said the exact thing before... you cant believe how many dont care about the added safety features.
And IMO, they handle better than the OEM non-pax.

lland

Agreed. I have PAX and had a loaner without. My theory is that it's due to the PAX's stiffer sidewall.

LL

Qatar

The RL with tech package is equipped with suspension sensors which are monitored by on board computer (laser cruise control) and as i was told my the dealer tech, thats why we cannot change them. You can only have the body kit, but not even the A-SPEC rims (no room for spare tire)

bearcat2000

I looked those up on the Tire Rack and it appears as though you must have went with a little different size than OEM as 245/50/17 isn't listed. What size did you go with?

sotiri

NOT TRUE.

FN P90

I went with the alternate size. Can't tell any difference between OEM size and these:
Size: 225/55HR17
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=0


I have my summer tires stored in this:
http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/ttr/wheel_felts.jsp
http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/ttr/tire_garage.jsp
http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/..._tire_tote.jsp

Qatar

[QUOTE=sotiri]NOT TRUE.[/QUOT
i was about to purchase a 06RL tech, but what they told me stopped me.
Actually if you read the 06 prochure, it supports what the tech said. Check with your dealer.

Rob L

Well I had my first real drive in snow tonight (for this winter that is) and sure enough the OEM tires did their thing and sucked balls. Two times I had to brake with mroe than tiny 93569356932 foot distance and the damn car started to skid each time but thankfully when it does it is pretty easy to manage and doesnt really go sideways...and nobody was in front of me.

The OEMS are flat out crap and I can't imagine there being worse all seasons in the snow although I am sure there must be something inferior...scary. It is sad that when I go around any type of curve I am worried the tires will lose grip and I'll just keep going straight.

I'm ordering a set of M3s because it really sucks to be driving an AWD car and have it almost neutered because of the tires. My parents' LS430 with snow tires brakes better than my RL.

sotiri

[QUOTE=Qatar]Well considering that I own an 06 with tech, and yes I did read the literature.. and I happen to own the HELM's manuals, I will stand by my statement that you are incorrect.
First off, the ACC (and CMBS) is microwave based, not laser.
Secondly, when I purchased my car I insisted that they remove the PAX tires b/c I didnt want them at first.
They verified that the car would run with non-pax tires and could be converted to standard rim tires (18") without any other modifications (save that I would have to purchase the TPMS transmitters for each wheel to transmit the pressure from the interior of the rim) and I would be set to go.
However they could not legally sell me the car. It had to do with that the car was substantially altered from the factory spec, and legally they could not sell me the car, so they couldnt do what I asked for.
So I took the car with the PAX- and I grew to like the tires.
So much that I think they do perform better than the OEM non pax tires.
My main objection to the PAX was my fear that a replacement would be an issue... I dont care any more.
After reading the HELM's manuals and noting the differences between the non-tech and the tech car... the differences are in the way the ACC and CMBS affect the braking system (consider it automated braking and throttle) and there are no components that measure the suspension of the car.
The VSA measures the movement of the car, and that means the CMBS may use some of that information in the application of the brakes if there is an emergency braking action-and only after when the driver is in control of the brakes.
So, what you said earlier... is NOT TRUE.
Forget the prattle of the grease monkey that thinks you are not able to discern truth from fiction.
The HELM's manual tells all.

neuronbob

Thanks for the input, sotiri. I do indeed wax poetic about A-Spec but it seems no one at Acura (dealerships or ACS) knows why RLs with CMBS and ACC can't have an A-Spec suspension or use regular wheels/tires. I frankly don't see an intrinsic reason why a PAX/CMBS/ACC RL couldn't use regular wheels/tires or use Acura's own A-Spec suspension.

Frankly, I am disappointed that these folks from Acura don't understand the product well enough that they can accurately answer the concerns of those like Qatar and chas2 who have legitimate questions about altering the suspension within Acura's own specs with A-Spec.

sotiri

There is no structural reason why it cant.
However, it could be the dealerships dont want the risk of converting a car that was designed with the automated systems of CMBS, ACC, and no spare (however all you have to do is remove the insert and put in a compact spare) to an A spec... and if something went wrong, then the schmo who had the accident tries to blame the dealership for altering the car to a specific non-performing state.
So, with the issue of lawyers, and the fact that only 2000 tech rl's were created in 06 (and less in 07) its not a real issue for Acura.
I mean, how many sales are they losing on A spec when only 2000 vehicles are built?

neuronbob

I totally agree, but they should still be able to answer the questions, even if with a "well, Acura told us that their lawyers wouldn't let us do this".

btw.... which I willingly participated in.

Qatar

I dont disagree with you, but if you read my post, it was about the suspension, not the rims.
Anyone can replace their rims with whatever they feel comfortable with, but the main question is about the suspension which cannot be replaced with A-SPEC suspension

sotiri

And I said that perhaps b/c of the ACC and CMBS, they cant because they cant take on the liability in the event of an accident.
I can just see it, some schmo rearends an SUV filled with kids, the CMBS didnt work (he claims) at all and blames Acura for not disclosing that the CMBS (or whatever) loses some functionality b/s the suspension is lowered, thus reducing the cross section of viewability to the microwave sensor.
However, there are no sensors on the suspension, the suspension is the same regardless of model trim.

Chas2

I have done some research and get stymied by the dealers parts departments who all just say the A-Spec tech sheets say the suspension changes are incompatible with PAX. Acura Care is worthless in the technical support department, and say only the dealers can get with Acura corporate for technical support. My parts department was unwilling to spend the time to find out why the A-Spec suspension cannot be used. Anyone have any ideas on how to get the real story on why the A-Spec suspension cannot be used in the RL Tech Package?

What I have found with the help of Pohanka Acura dealer parts department is that the part numbers for suspension are the same on the standard 2006 RL and the 2006 tech package RLs for:

FRONT

lower control arm
knuckle
forks
strut assembly

REAR

lower control arm
upper control arm
knuckles

We found part number differences in REAR strut assembly:

rear strut mount is the same, but strut and springs are different part numbers.

I have gone on the Acura estore to verify what the Pohanka Acura parts department told me, and as far as I can tell, the spring and strut part numbers for the rear standard RL, and the RL Tech Pkg are indeed different.

All other rear strut assembly part numbers appear to be the same for except for these two part numbers (Spring and Strut). The rear struts (called shock absorber assy) are the same part numbers with no differentiation between right and left, but the struts are different between the RL and the RL Tech:

RL Spring, R. RR 52441-SJA-A02 RL Tech Spring, R. RR 52441-SJA-A21
RL Spring, RR 52441-SJA-A11 RL Tech Spring, RR 52441-SJA-AJ01
RL Shock Absorber Assy, R. RR 52610-SJA-A04 RL Tech Shock Absorber Assy, R. RR 52610-SJA-A12
RL Shock Absorber Assy, RR 52620-SJA-A04 RL Tech Shock Absorber Assy, RR 52620-SJA-A12

Qatar

Chas2,
I just came from Pohanak Acura in Chantilly, and spoke with the parts manager. He stated that the Tech package RLs have a different suspension setup to accomodate the Pax system. He even called one of the techs, who stated that one RL owner tired to change to A-SPEC, but only the front setup worked. He didn't want to tell me what happened with the rear.

sotiri

Check out this thead
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...7403#post37403