Chas2

USA only

static808

Those numbers show that a refresh is definitely needed. When is that coming....hopefully in 2009...

TSX69

1. 5 - Series - 23,807
2. E - Class - 22,246
3. M - 11,701
4. GS - 11,168
5. STS - 9,509
6. S80 - 6,164
7. A6 - 6,014
8. RL - 3,482
9. 9-5 -2,266

gavine

Notice that not one of these cars has a name instead of a code. I don't want to get into the whole debate again but I really wonder had this car been called the Acura Legend if it would be higher up that list.

SpicyMikey

We'll probably never know gavine. I can't see Acura changing their entire naming scheme again anytime soon.

For me, the name of a model plays no role in my decision making.

CL6

I wouldn't drive a Ford Probe.

TL_Captain

not sure why RL doesn't sell. It has good performance, good safety equipments, and GREAT value. You can't really compare BMW 5xx or MB E350 with RL, because RL is MUCH more reliable. Anyhow, the only reason RL doesn't sell may be the styling. It's a bit toward the conservative side. Of course, no car is perfect. If I had the $$, I'd get the RL instead of TL.

SpicyMikey

OK, well maybe the name would have an impact if it was some ridiculous name. Ford PROBE is pretty bad, I'll give you that. I'd have to think twice for sure.

bluemule

Sabotage.

Qatar

I personally think that Acura has lost the race, or it will always try to follow.
Lexus has introduced the GS350 with 303HP and upgrading the GS430 to GS460.
Infiniti is going to take away what that RL perfected over the M, which is a M45X (a V8 AWD).
so, what does Acura have left.
I was always with those who didn't want a V8 in a RL, but i think its should be an option, and instead of Acura perfecting its A-SPEC concepts, they should try to manufacture limited numbers and see how they sell, with more horsepower, factory one piece bodykit and a bit aggressive styling.

gavine

The biggest car name mistake was the Chevy Nova...not in the USA but in Spanish-speaking countries. The car didn't sell in those countries because "no va" in Spanish means "no go" or "doesn't go".

Would you buy a "probe" over a "no go"?

SpicyMikey

I agree, it does seem like time is running short for Acura. I like their product offerings but I am obviously a minority in the general U.S. population. Their strategy is aimless and wandering. The sinking sales reflect that. The Acura name (eventhough they still make great cars) has virtually no image with the general public. With the MDX doing so well in sales and the new RDX in the lineup, I suppose Acura can be viewed as an SUV maker now. No sports car, no coupes, no convertibles. Is this their vision? Who's steering this ship?

Also, they generally just move too slow for the 21st century. You can't introduce a model and then wait 5 years to make any significant upgrades in the lux market. Technology and the industry moves to fast now. Let's stay with the MDX for comparisons. Great vehicle but already about to fall behind in the lux xover market in it's second year. No keyless start, no adaptive cruise option, no standard backup sensors, etc. The vehicle should have been introduced in 07 with these features. Knowing Honda, they'll wait until the 2012 FMC to change it. In the meantime, the new RX will be out in 6 months with a long body version for 7 and no doubt all the latest tech goodies. Everyone is working on "smart" AWD systems now. They won't have that advantage much longer. Hell, even the 2008 Veracruz will have keyless start and nav in a few months. What did they do for the 08 MDX? They made the Auto Dim mirror standard instead of optional and added a new color (another gray!). Now you have a choice of 3 grays. Man, watch out! Acura is really shaking things up

Done venting. Sorry, haven't had my second cup of coffee yet

neuronbob

Hey, no need for an apology, I've made exactly the same rant here in the past.

Acura's next three years will either make it or break it, even with its popular SUVs. After all, if they can't cut it in the U.S., they can't make it in Japan. They've already delayed their previously planned 2008 launch there. My guess is they're waiting to see what happens in the U.S. first.

Qatar

There is one more thing that i do not understand with Acura/Honda. Where is the 6 or 7 speed auto. Can you believe that almost 80% of manufacures have thier own 6 speed auto, If the Camry and Mazda CX have them, the new Accord and any product thereafter should, or "fuel consumption advantage" is done.

TSX69

I think that Honda remembers all of the drama they had w/ the 5 speed transmission back in the late 90s. In addition, the Camry/ES350 6 speed transmissions have had problems so my guess would be that Honda is making double sure that their 6+ speed is flawless before introducing it.

That said, they are still way behind the game ...

TampaRLX-SH

I agree. Honda is conservative company and follows a tried and true methodology. How much a 6+ speed tranny is needed versus the risks of introducing new designs is likely heavy on the Honda decision maker's minds. Honda is an engine company and look how much they refine existing, proven engines over introducing new designs. I have no hesitations with Honda engines. Tranny's are on the radar at Honda as a new tranny plant is opening next to the LEGEND assembly plant in Japan.

On the flip side, Toyota may be razzle dazzling the tranny perceptions with 6+ speed trannies. But two trannies in my family alone failed in the last ear (one a Lexus & one a Toyota). For me, that speaks volumes and obscene statistics.

I personally will tolerate Honda and Acura not leading the market. I would prefer confidence in what they introduce, specifically in engineering then what's 'Hot' (I call it the Paris Syndrome). And I do acknowledge favoring the Japanese when it comes to automobile technologies, and out of the Japanese monikers, I think Acura, in particular, leads the pack. But technology alone does not sell cars, nor does conservative, tried and true engineering.

When Acura can get Paris Hilton 'Hot' with Martha Stewart reliability & quality, the numbers will go up. Good luck Dr. Frankenstein ("frank-in-schteen").

I'll be patient with Honda. Acura is an image brand,,,they cannot afford to be so patient.

lland

I'd agree that Toyota's reliability has slipped recently, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they now "suck big time."

LL

SpicyMikey

Was that a Young Frankenstein reference Gene Wilder's best movie IMO.

Well back to Acura; If all these rumors come true, '09-'10 is going to be one hell of a breakout year for Acura (or the beginning of the end). Possibly SHAWD on all models, a new TSX, and new TL, a new RL, a new NSX, some new drivetrains with diesel, a v8 and a v10. WOW, that's a lot happening in 18 months. They better get this one right. Past performance seems to make this a 50/50 bet for success.

gavine

It comes down to advertising. Acura puts money into high quality parts and good cars. Other companies spend money on advertising and make it up using inferior parts but the latter scenario sells more cars.

I'd rather buy a great car that no one knows about than have a popular piece of junk. I guess I'm not influenced by advertising as much as others.

However, I did "find-out" about the RL through a TV commercial but it was the SH-AWD that caught my attention.

gavine

By the way, I see 5 to 10 Hyundai commercials every time I watch TV.

neuronbob

Cue the DUH?

Acura needs a similarly memorable tagline.

TampaRLX-SH

I have to say I am seeing a lot of the closeout ads lately. I do like the 'Type A' hook. ("It takes a certain kind of driver to appreciate the subtle blend of performance and technology"....or close to that).

Acura commercials are quietly sophisticated and usually well done...but that does not get watercooler chat or leaves a strong impression.

I liked some of the Acura commercials that were so underappreciated. The ones that come to mind were the early TL commercials where the road was formed just ahead of the speeding car, the RSX one where a RSX races ahead of a wave and the last gen MDX which escapes an animated spooky forrest. Some of the Acura commercial's score are also exceptional choices.

I believe David Spade does the current voiceovers? Again, subtle and sophisticated, but not as sucessful as the Lexus & BMW voiceovers...who are trademark to the brand.

Don Melcher

Actually, 1 reason I did not consider a Lexus (there were others) but the voice, at least on the radio ad, is condescending and arrogant. BMW's ad encourage driving like a maniac.

I watch very little TV and what little I do I record on a Replay with automatic commercial skip - so I don't see many TV ads.

larrynimmo

Even if Acura advertised the RL like Lexus does the ES350, sales would not go up enough to pay for the ad time. Lexus really pushes their new models...I hardly remember an add for the ES330, but it you think about it, there were lots of ads for the ES300.

Because the RL is in its forth year and the ES is just entering its second year, I don't see more than double the ES350 than the RL. I take pride in my "limited production" car. When I owned an 03tl, I was part of the crowd...with the RL I have distinguished myself from the crowd. (especially now that I have lighted door handles)

hungphan8

I like exclusivity, but am worry about available parts for the RL 10+ years from now. For a car like an Accord, it makes sense economically to support the Accord 10+ years from now as there will be many people buying parts to fix/maintain Accords. How about RL if not many people buy parts in a distant future (like 10, 15 years)? Can they still buy parts? Is this a right concern? As I am thinking about buying an RL, if it is a dream car for me, I think I can live with it at least 10 years provided there is not much trouble (and I think it will be very likely trouble-free). Thanks.

gavine

Since the RL is sold worldwide as a Honda Legend I don't think the production is so limited that you won't be able to get parts. I think you'll be fine. The engine share common parts with Accords too I believe. No worries.

Chas2

A little OT, but do we have any data on Honda Legend sales world wide?

CL6

I'm pretty sure Toyota recalled more cars last year than they sold. That ain't a success story, is it?

On another note the 08 Accord now has a 3.5 litre V6 at 268 HP. That's 0.3 liters bigger than the TL but with the same HP.

SpicyMikey

I think the Accord is bigger then the RL now too? is that true CL?

What's Acura going to do? I'm sure this guarantees now the TL and RL are moving up next year. Can't have the Accord with the same HP as the TL , eventhough the TL is a better looker.

chenhao80224

IMO Honda/Acura needs to improve their marketing, and also make the RL a bit more aggressive styling, a Mugen M1 body kit with factory 18 inch wheels and A-Spec suspension should do it, and this is call STYLE.

http://www.mugen-power.com/street/LE.../wp03_1024.jpg
http://www.mugen-power.com/street/LE.../wp04_1024.jpg
http://www.mugen-power.com/street/LE.../wp05_1024.jpg

wstr75

I agree with the styling comment. Love the shape of the RL but they laid an egg with the standard wheels. They should have gone with the optional 18" wheels as standard to give it a more aggressive look. I think part of the RL's present marketing problem goes back to the earlier RL's body style lasting about two year too long. The new design should have come 18 to 24 months earlier. Acura bet on the new technologies (Bluetooth, SH-AWD, etc.) and apparently waited they matured sufficiently to be put into the total concept package. We RL owners love it, but during 2003 - 2004, the RL became a forgotten badge. If Acura had brought out the new RL in the late 2003 model year it is possible today's sales figures would be 2X (1100 to 1200 units/month) in the USA.

Hey, I don't make or sell cars so what do I know. What I do know is that I really enjoy driving my 2nd generation RL.

CL6

In April 2003 the TSX came out. In October 2003 the new TL came out. So getting a new RL in was too much, hence the carry-over year in 2003.

In my opinion, in 2004 SH-AWD should have come to every Acura. To me, seems to be one bodystyle too late to the party.

Times with Acura will be pretty rough until Fall 2008 when the new TL launches.

I mean, I drive an Acura but the new Accord coupe is to have an 8" Navi screen, Bluetooth, ACE body structure... it has the same basic Tech as the RL does... and more because its 3.5 liter comes with VCM! And speaking of RL wheels the new Accord, I heard, has wheels that were designed by a new company Acura picked.

TSX69

Just read a review that said that the Accord is .5" longer that the RL. The specs on the new Accord really suggest some big things on the horizon for the TSX, TL & RL ... if Honda is serious about ending the cross shopping.

CL6

Raise the prices by 5-10 grand.

wstr75

CL6, thanks for the Honda Accord update. Heck, if there is to be a differential between Honda and Acura there will have to be some serious upgrading work done in the power, electronic features, overall size and performance department. With the Accord getting the new primo features it sounds like some sweet stuff is en route to Acura. Maybe 2009?

larrynimmo

I know this is slightly off topic....however...in looking at the new honda accord, it looks like it could be the next generation of TL rather than accord. I see sales of TL's to drop and they will soon join us in the basement.

CL6

July was my final month with Acura (I'm with a German car company now). I had to leave because, after several years, I saw the product being stale, Honda getting close to Acura in terms of features, and every car selling at or below invoice. The 2008 Accord will have pretty much ALL the features of the 2008 TL! The execs at Acura really dropped the friggin ball with their division and it made me very angry. I own an Acura product and love it but something's wrong when I'm starting to want to go down market to buy an Accord coupe 6 speed when I should be able to get a car in my own division!

Maybe the 2009 TL will slice bread and do my dishes but I wasn't going to whore out Acuras for 18 months to find out. People wanting $2,000 or more below invoice for a TL when in 2005 it was $2,000 above invoice. Before the RL came out we were so excited then that qucikly died. Before the RDX came out the same thing.

Anyway I know you guys all love your RLs. I think Honda/Acuras are the best engineered vehicles built and are incredibly reliable. But you have to ask yourself what idiot numbskull could let their flagship car fall on its ass, their bread and butter car (TL) get upstaged by the Accord (!), drop all coupes from the line-up even though you're a BMWesque sporty division, miss so badly with the RDX, kill off your Halo car (NSX), and be left only with the MDX and TSX (which to me always seemed overpriced). With so much talent at Honda it's almost like they have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And when I saw that absolutely grotesque Acura 'concept car' my god what is going on..?

The reason why I find the RL forum so interesting is because the 'problems' with the RL always seemed to me to be a metaphor for the problems with Acura. I've always liked the RL and always been interested with why it was so damn hard to sell one.

123456SPEED

Wow, good luck on your new job. I'm frustrated with Acura too but loved my 2 Legend Coupes !yes!, and my 2 CLS 6speeds. I was seriously bummed when Acura brought out the first CL as the 'Legend Coupe replacement". that was a real shock and I don't think Acura ever recovered the status the Legends had brought.

I have also been looking at the new Accord Coupe as a last chance new HoMoCo coupe, but I'm too old for that car, it's styling is all over the place anyway.

So here I am RL looking, and it is aging as I look. great car but not what I had in mind exactly. still want a coupe. sedans are boring to me and some of Hondas are the worst.
where can I go? I want an Acura coupe, not BMW or Infiniti, the new Audi A5 is too much $.
well good luck to you. I don't think Acura deserved you.

SpicyMikey

Yes, good luck buddy. I agree it can't be fun selling cars at invoice all day long. My brother quit also recently. Same type of story.

It's tough watching this company make one stupid strategic mistake after another. There's still hope, but the chance for Acura to be anything serious again (in the near term) is fading fast. Someone needs to define a vision for this company NOW and grab the wheel and start going there. Tomorrow is too late.

neuronbob

It's too bad you moved on, CL6, but I understand your frustration, which has been played out in this forum.

I'm hoping Acura makes a turnaround so that the RL isn't my last one. Even Caddy has more excitement than Acura nowadays. Even I'm drooling over the next potential CTS-V.

Hey Acura, give us some love next model year! Make me wanna stick around!!