neuronbob

Uh-oh!

Goes along with a loss of Acura overall sales of 17% compared to last July.

(Goes back to vacation lurking mode...)

2007AcuraRL

Well at least it makes every 2nd Gen RL on the road kind of unique now (even with no mods) doesn't it?!

Btw, Neuronbob its good to find you again on the boards. I remember chatting back and forth in various posts over the years on the TL side of the boards. I was the one who did the remote radar install into the speedo gauge and an early Blue LED conversion, amongst my mods I contributed to the site. After three trannys in my '02 I got disallusioned and stopped modding or coming to this site. Now I'm trading in the TL for a new RL tomorrow and its good to see there is an RL community on this site. I saw pics of Quatar's RL and was quite impressed with that Amuse kit. I PMed him to ask where he got it, as well as the great Mugen rear spoiler.

Well I thought I'd check in and say 'hi'. Now to start getting enthused again and come up with a remote radar install for my RL.

sotiri

hey I remember reading about those mods!
and yes, after 3 trannys, I too did what you are doing.
Welcome, and I hope you are getting a version with the CMBS/ACC, but any trim line is a good car.

neuronbob

(Delurking again...must....stay...away....from...this...site. ...urrrrrrg....)

2002, I traded my 2002 TL for a 2004 TL in part because the 2004 was so much better and because I kept reading about tranny failures. Thankfully, I never experienced one. I bought an RL last year because I got a deal I couldn't refuse, and the rest is modding history.

In any case, I remember your mods! That really brings me back. Welcome back, I saw your post about your non-navi RL. Before you ask, no one has successfully made a non-navi into a navi RL even though theoretically, all the parts are there.

The low sales don't bother me much as I have been a big 2G RL fan since it was released. The future promises bigger things, however....Acura is on the cusp of getting this car right and making it a real Lexus fighter....

Chas2

I hope so. The July sales figures are dismal. Let's hope we do not see the RL go the way of the Prelude.

sotiri

If acura is real about bringing back the legend moniker, they might let the RL wither away, and launch the Legend with what should be the next gen RL (09)

kssod

So how about a twin turbo 3.7l , with a magnetic sport/comfort suspension, RonJon 18" wheels with pilot A/S shoes, a restyled front end, enhanced interior with 3D nav, HD radio and FM station info. +or- a few more things, standard. Then maybe they can get rid of the market support and just sell cars.

Acura will never be like Lexus or Jag. Across those marques they specialize in pampering and coddling their buyers. Open house wine tastings, personal valets for service, phone calls from corporate making sure the dealer totally satisfied your needs etc. Lexus buyers see a good car and buy it because it is a better built Mercedes. Acura buyers see a good car with great technology, know all the specs better than the dealer, and then negotiate a purchase.

123456SPEED

I love a rare car, sales numbers do not bother me.
As far as the Legend name, build a car to merit the name and don't just use the name to try to sell cars, like GM GTO, Dodge Charger, Ford Thunderbird, etc.
Try to build a great car now not use this retro crap that the domestics are doing just to try to sell a new, but crappy car.

TampaRLX-SH

It is interesting that we in the US want our LEGEND back.

But I have been reading how Honda wants to continue exporting the Acura brand to more overseas markets (an attempt to making Acura a global brand may elevate it in the luxury ranks?) Lexus is doing the same). In countries where the Honda LEGEND already exists, it may soon be sold as Acura RL. Southeast Asia, and Europe are on the list. Acura is already in China, some areas of South America and of course Canada. It appears Honda recognizes the LEGEND is too much car (and price) for markets that also look tot he Honda brand for efficient, reliable and inexpensive cars. So upmarking LEGEND as Acura RL seems to be the solution. In some markets the LEGEND has just been introduced, and this supports the model run to still have 2 more years before retooling the assembly plant for a major model change.

Meanwhile, we in North America beg for the LEGEND name to return! There must be some Honda execs in Japan banging thier heads against the wall.

Mike_TX

Maybe it's a Texas thing, but I'm with you. Why bring back an old name ... nostalgia sells only so long and then the car has to stand on its own. And dropping names and inventing new ones (or re-inventing old ones) sure hasn't done GM and Ford any good. No we have the Taurus back (ugh!) even though eveyone knows it's the same crappy old 500 it was last year (and the 500 was also a re-invented name). And then there's the reborn Malibu, and ... well, you get the idea.

Stick with RL - it has name recognition.

.
.

123456SPEED

MikeTX, I agree except that 'the RL has name recognition'.
I wager there is still more name recognition for Legend, 12 years after the last US one, than there is with any year RL.

gavine

Camry and Accord....those are two names that probably will never go away.

sotiri

Legend, its still a name that has a pedigree attached to it.
in fact they use it still in Europe and Russia.
Honda Legend, its our Acura RL.
I think when Acura went to these monikers, it was a bad move.

123456SPEED

Legend became better known than Acura...that was not helping build the brand name, and also most competitors were going to letter/number names- ES100, SLKwhatever.

VOdoc

Since they haven't yet leveraged the LEGEND name to rescue the current generation RL, I suspect that is exactly what they are thinking.

TMQ

You can call it the Legend or RL, but it doesn't matter because the car doesn't have much of a place in the market. It's a very solid product for sure, but not many people want to buy it. If Acura had kept the Legend name, people now would just lament how the Legend is dying, or behind its times.

As the flagship sedan, the Legend/RL never really moves out of the old FWD V6 formula, while the competitors have gone on to better things. Lexus continues to make a killing (and profit) with the LS, despite what the car magazines say about its unsportiness, because it's the kind of car that people want to buy in that market segment.

A lot of the failure of RL has to do with the whole Acura brand. The Acura brand has always been a Honda with more features that cost more money. It will never work well. Acura needs RWD platform, V8 engine choice, and packages that let people pick and choose.

Honda recently announced that the introduction of the Acura brand is delayed in Japan. In China, TL is selling very poorly. Sales is going down in the U.S. Acura needs some bold moves to make cars for the people who want luxury cars, and the monthly sales figures of the RL is a sober reminder that Acura is just a near-luxury brand that sells entry level luxury vehicles, which offer great value and engineering but little prestige.

gdevine

This is all in the marketing or actually lack of marketing. I don't watch much TV however I have seen BMW ads, Lexus advertisements and even Audi ads. I would not have known a thing about the RL except that I read about it in Car and Driver. They raved about the 2nd Gen RL which is what led me to even investigate the vehicle. I don't recall viewing one advertisement on the RL.

This is sorta similar to the early 90's when Lexus introduced its luxury car with great advertising. Infiniti introduced its Q45 with pictures of rocks, streams, and nature scenes but no pics of the car. I'm sure that advertising firm when out of business because Lexus kicked Infiniti's butt in sales. The Q45 never did recover from that horrific introduction.

I have lately viewed a few RL ads but its probably too late to ever recover. Only a real car enthusiast would look at the RL as a possible purchase. Marketing is everything when it comes to volume selling.

BTW I would not buy a Lexus just becuase there are so many. I love the RL not only for its obvious all around performance and technology but also because of its rarity.

123456SPEED

I'm frustrated that Acura is seen to need to be more like Lexus to be successful, it's sad if true. I care little about prestige or a 'true' lux car. I don't care to impress anyone, and most people have never known what my cars were, (Legend Coupes, CLS). I guess I'm in the minority, again.

Acura can not beat Lexus at their game or BMW either. I guess I want a reliable, well engineered, near lux car for less than a common Lexus. Maybe I'll be shopping Honda again, who knows. It's hard to pay more and more for Acuras cause I perceive the resale tanks.
Oh well.

PortlandRL

Well everybody had a bad month with all companies posting losses except for Nissan, Kia, and one other. So we'll see how August goes with end-of-year closeouts and whatnot....

neuronbob

Now that I'm back home, I'll hopefully have time this week to find and post the numbers for comparable cars....if someone else doesn't beat me to it. I understand almost everyone had a bad month compared to last year.

Touge

I thought the '08 model being out so early would have improved there sales, I guess not. I agree with 123456SPEED, I love rare cars.

TSX69

Here are some #s for comparable cars:
5 Series 4,859

E-CLASS 3,227

GS 350 1,798
GS 430/450h 156

M 1,674

A6/S6 815

RL 558

TampaRLX-SH

Keep in mind 07 RL inventory was more scarce in the model year as production was lowered for US sales. As early as May few dealerships had anymore than 3 or 4 RLs on hand. This would affect sales if shoppers could not find color combos & feature packages before deciding to buy an alternative.

Introducing the 08 model so early may perhaps make 08 model sales (total) not look so dismal, even if artificially created. 07 model year seems to be a write off.

Still, RL sales should be better.

gavine

What about the Infiniti M45? Any numbers on that?

SpicyMikey

I can't believe Mercedes sold 3227 of those overpriced, unreliable, E sedans. There truly is a sucker born ever minute.......

TSX69

That I know of, Infiniti does not separate their 35/45 #s like Lexus does for the GS 350/430 so the above # is for both of them combined.

SpicyMikey

If I had to guess I'd bet they're inline with the GS 8 cylinder number. They only sold 156 of those last month (and that included the hybrid version too!)

Is everyone still sure a v8 is the answer for the RL. I still don't think that's going to help sales. It matters to some, but it's a small number of those in the market for a midsize sedan, I think.

TSX69

In all fairness, I think 1 of the main reasons Lexus hardly sells any of their 8 cylinders is bc of the introduction of the 350 model. The 6 cylinder has more HP & better mileage than the 8 cylinder so I am not sure who would buy the 8 cylinder model (303hp, 21/29mpg vs 290hp, 18/25mpg). The only thing that the 430 has over the 350 is torque (319@3400 vs 274@3600). There have been long rumors of a new 8 cylinder 450 model ...

psteng19

While it's not as reliable as the RL, I wouldn't call the buyers suckers.
IMO the E class is the classiest looking vehicle of the bunch and definitely the name is most prestigious which is important to many.

CL6

According to JD Power Mercedes-Benz does very well...

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article....tentid=4020143

Scroll down for the list... Mercedes beat Acura but not Honda.

mrdeeno

i can't believe after all these threads, there are people who still cannot just look past the numbers for a moment.

mrdeeno

and considering that the 5 and E lease out so well, most of these cars are leased anyway and are returned before warranty expiration, so long term reliability isn't a major factor to consider.

the RL lease rate sucks, so if one were to purchase the car and keep it past warranty period, then reliability is a big factor.

SpicyMikey

What do you mean?

By the way CL6, I saw that. I can't reconcile that with the CR numbers and my own personal experiences. Something always seems wrong with JDPower results. I suppose the numbers have some legitimacy, but, they often don't jive with reality.

psteng19; I'm sorry, but I put zero value in prestige with a vehicle unless it somehow helps your image for getting a better job, or joining a certain country club, etc. Short of that. It's foolish. I know people pay extra to live in a prestigious neighborhood, but at least there you get something; better schools, more convenient access to things, cleaner and safer streets, etc. In contrast, what does driving an MB ML350 give you versus an MDX? Aside from a larger monthly payment you get, less room, inferior nav and voice activation, the absolute worst reliability rating of any SUV on the planet (by far), less horsepower. Should I go on?

I'd call that a bad move. There can only be a few explanations when I see someone driving an ML (or most other MB's); they were not informed buyers, or, they got sucked in by an image thing.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

^^^^ I agree about that MB diffenently sells a lot of cars because of the image. Take a look at the A6, 5 Series, and E class. Now I cant say how they perform because I have never driven any of them however in every other category at least to me the A6 blows the other two away especially on the interior. Yet BMW and MB sell more because of the image they have.

I also agree with the fact that while a V8 would help sells it wouldnt do that much. I think RWD with optional AWD would do way more for sales then a V8. We will see what Acura does for the RL in 09.

CL6

No doubt Mercedes sucked big time as far as reliability ratings went. I was told the E Class sucked so badly back in 03 was because right before they went to build it they switched to a different supplier for all of the electronics! That was a dummy move big time.

CR is based on an owner survey and is longer term... JD Power is first 90 days (Initial Quality) I think so that's the difference. I think in 1-3 years you'll see some big changes with MB as far as CU reports go (for the 07 and 08 models to get older is why the delay).

Thing is you take a brand that has traditionally been reliable (Toyota) and they suck big time now because they are rushing to crank out so many cars they're letting problems slip by and having to do tons of recalls.

One could say anybody drives a 'premium brand' for image. Perhaps Acura drivers are the least image conscious luxury car buyers, but premium brands of water, clothes, cars all exist for a reason...

SpicyMikey

Your right about the lag. Our confort factor is based on 3-4 years of history. However, I think that's good. The GM's are getting great reliability reviews these last 2 years. But, what about 3, 4, or 5 years. I'm watching but still sitting on the sidelines until I see some trends build up.

Regarding your comment on prestige and Acura buyers; I agree, Acura buyers are definitely the least prestige conscious, because, well, there is no prestige with the brand. Maybe that's why there's no lux tax on Acura's like a Lexus. But, and I'm being totally honest here, I don't buy cars on image or who else owns them. I buy based on what the car can do for me to get me from point a to b in the safest, most reliable, and most luxurious way. Price is actually secondary. Acura got my money regardless of the value advantage. That was just the icing on the cake when I was comparing it to a comparable Lexus, MB, BMW, and Infiniti in April. I've said this on threads before; I would have still bought the RL even if it was $5000 more. I've heard many say they would not have chosen it if it was even a dime more. I'm definitely not in that category.

mrdeeno

by looking past the numbers, I mean the halo effect of having a V8...every other competitor in this class offers at least 2 engine choices, and the RL not offering another engine choice (v8) gives it the stigma of being a "half-ass" attempt to compete in a segment where having a V8 is an unwritten requirement.

The purpose of having a V8 isn't to increase sales numbers by selling V8 models, the purpose of having a V8 is to increase sales numbers of V6 (or i6 or whatever) models. The V8 establishes a certain image for the model/brand, and the image for the model/brand sells more V6's.

CL6

I think that was abolished in 2003. There is a gas guzzler tax, however.

SpicyMikey

Sorry, I was referring to the mysterious upcharge for lux vehicles. I was referring to it as a "lux tax" but was saying that tongue in check. Acura's truly seem to be right on target for what you get. Lexus seems to be a bit overpriced eventhough their Toyota cousins are not.

gavine

Are these number worldwide or USA only?