Storm982

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/20/n...r-wheel-drive/

psheu

I think Honda knows what's best for them and knows what they are doing (i'm kinda glad they r not following suit with the other car companies).... if they can offer good power (squeeze every able ponies out of that engine), good fuel economy (squeeze every little drop of petro), good tranny, better design (drop the freaking bucktooth) and AWD (better than rwd or fwd), why dwell on rear-wheel drive and big engine? Honda have been making great cars and I'm certain that they'll continue to bring cutting edge stuff to us like they always do.... IMHO, if they can make super-charged or turbo charged 3.5L V6 that makes 450+ ponies with shitload of torque and sip gas in the 29 - 35 mpg, I could careless if they are V8 rwd or not

BigKat103

Heck the 6 speed AT is an improvement that they are putting in the MDX and ZDX. I am sure it will make it's way into the other cars.

club_euro2

I also noticed only 4 colours in the 2010 RL. Is there a redesign for 2011?

Aman

^ Think so, the RL is due for a full redesign sometime in the near future.

I understand dropping the V8 option, Honda's forte has always been 4 and 6 cylinders, and they've managed to squeeze every drop of power out of them, making V8s unnecessary. But no RWD? Really? That means no S2000 I guess damn...

I think SH-AWD is a great system, and I personally like it better than any other AWD system out there. But I really think Honda could benefit from a light, small, RWD coupe. Nissan has the 370, Toyota and Subaru has god knows what up their sleeve, Mazda has the MX-5 and RX-8, hell even Hyundai has the Genesis. Honda is completely missing out on a niche market that IMO is growing despite the current economy.

Chas2

Look at the Wikipedia article on the RL for the full palette, although it is not cross referenced by trim levels. There are different color combinations for different trim levels, which is why there only appear to be four colors, however, two were definitely dropped so there is a total of 5 colors by my count.

BigKat103

I was gonna write this in another thread, but decided to pull it in here (I know, you can all breath a sigh of relief).

I have no opinion on the V8 RWD market as I don't have interest in it, but realize many do. With that said, the elimination of this will completely limit their ceiling in "Tier 1". In reality it pretty much eliminates them from competing in that sedan market. Perhaps they don't want to. Are the days of the gas guzzler numbered? Does the next 5 years hold minimum 30 MPG highway requirements? If so, they are positioning themselves well to compete in a "green" market and the subsequent luxury market. (just hope it happens after I sell my car )

In my mind this brings up the question of where they take the RL. The redundancy between it and the TL doesn't make much business sense. The potential of a larger engine in the RL was the carrot for the future. But now, as the exclusive RL features are making their way into the line, the RL's uniqueness is all but gone. Many already see it as an overpriced TL (hate writing that, but true at this point). The '05-'08 the RL was no comparison to it's sister TL, but now, on paper they look like the same car.

Will the RL disappear? I hope not, but woulndn't surprise me a this point. The only way I see they can differentiate the 2 cars is styling, which they obviously want to unify, not differentiate like in the past.

neuronbob

Wow, OK. I guess we won't see any more V8/RWD mules around. I am officially giving up on a V8/RWD 3G RL. Honda once again shows its independence and is obviously seeking another path to Tier 1 Luxury status. They are obviously doing something right as they are not bankrupt.

I'd be happy with SH-AWD (much lighter, thank you) and a DI or turbo (biturbo?) V6 in an RL halo car at this point. Maybe we can get 400 hp? I would think so.

I think Acura will be happy being the Japanese Audi. SH-AWD is awesome. They just need to get some compelling designs.

TampaRLX-SH

They eluded to hybrids.

I think you will be seeing electric motors coupled to Honda's already stellar V6s which will make the HP jump, efficiency increase, green factor increase and torque improve.

I think Honda just does not feel V8s are the solution to satisfy these needs anymore. If they see alternatives, I am curious to see what they bring to market. If the end product delivers those attributes I could not care any less about the number of cylinders.

To some degree, I think the market is ripe for innovation over traditional products.

Professor

The hypocrites need to get out of Indy racing then.

neuronbob

They did. Even with a hybrid base car, a "high-po" V6 (if you can call a V6 car that ) would whet enthusiasts' appetites for the RL.

At this point, the best I am hoping for from a new RL is a kickass exterior design. Sigh.

TampaRLX-SH

Ahen, Brother Bob! *raising hands*.

Other than a 6 speed tranny and some bump in fuel efficiency and torque, I place my interests on the next gen RL in styling improvements over groundbreaking engineering. I am still very happy with my RLs packaging and content. Update and throw in some new technology, and I could be woo'd away from my 06RL.

SpicyMikey

Yea, I've been talking about this over in the Automotive News section. On some levels it's disappointing, especially the V8 thing. Acura has a great AWD system and I really don't need RWD to be happy. But, I can't see them making a full size (200+ inch) AWD sedan based on the J37. They need more torque. If they were to stop flapping their gums and actually build a sophisticated hybrid system for such a sedan then all would be fine. It's the lack of execution and continued rethinking of their direction that is most disappointing.

Yumcha

There is also a thread in Automotive News over in Off-Topic, folks.

SpicyMikey

You're right. Probably should just discuss this over there. I reposted my last thoughts in that thread.

neuronbob

Thanks, Yumchah. Some RL fans (e.g. me) are just a little disappointed that the next version of Acura's flagship won't have some nice shiny fun toys (V8/RWD) as options.

Aman

I just hope that they can replace it with something else appealing. Who knows, maybe Honda has something up their sleeve. They're pretty good at keeping secrets.

up_late

The next-gen RL is briefly mentioned here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/21/n...hybrid-sports/

Interesting.

TampaRLX-SH

Interesting indeed. This is the 1st I have heard of a hybrid NSX possibility. One day after announcing the RWD V8 plans were official dead, the V6 Hybrid SHAWD surfaces.

It makes perfect sense to me giving the abrupt change in the market and corresponding values of automotive consumers. And I hope Honda delivers.

Personally, a hybrid V6 SHAWD of 400+hp would be more than I would ever utilize and certainly would allow V8s to fade from my dreams.

Even if Toyota has brought hybrids into acceptance for the mass market, I have confidence that Honda can create the performance niche of hybrid technology which Lexus has touched on. But as SpiceyMikey has commented, I am getting tired of the rumors and twists and really need to see results.

SpicyMikey

Yes! Just what we needed to hear. Now deliver, and do it soon.

if they could do this (and make it competitively priced) the issue about lack of v8 is a moot point. Ultimately, people aren't in love with a v8 (although the sound is great). What we really want is torque. Give it to us any way you can Acura.

Rhlieu

This is hard to swallow! First Acura tease us with a 5.5 liter V10 (600hp / 433 torque) supercar, now they scrap the idea completely (4+ years of engineering/R&D) and start ground up with a “greener hybrid” SH-AWD NSX with the next generation RL platform?

Since I’m 1/10 gypsy, I can already foretell 2013 release of the Acura NSX within weeks of the induction of our 45th President Sara Palin & the crowning of Hyundai the "new king of automotive world"!

Aman

^ what is the world coming to

I'm not really liking this new Honda president dude.

dwboston

I like the rumor as well. One thing to keep in mind is that electric motors generate a lot of torque compared to internal combustion engines. The right gas/electric combo could generate more than enough power and still be pretty fuel efficient.

Storm982

Honda needs to start incorporating more turbos into their line up. It would make for many spirited cars. Even BMW is leaning more towards turbo charged engines in all their models. (ie the new 7 series)

Aman

Has there ever been a factory forced-induction Honda? Now that I think about it, none come to mind.

I like the idea of an electric motor, though. Great for low-end torque, and let the Honda engine do the high-end stuff, which is what it does best.

TampaRLX-SH

It was long enough for Honda to find a turbo acceptable for the RDX.

Honda's strict reliability and durability parameters has made them shy away from turbos and superchargers. I read that vendor the RDX turbocharger came from was nearly unable to meet Honda standards and the RDX nearly came V6 equipped.

I don't know if Honda R&D is looking at forced induction for the consumer line as much as electric and fuel cell hybrids. I wonder about DI, but perhaps there are issues with VTECH and DI or forced induction?

Rhlieu

How about the diesel option? I know currently BMW has been showing semi success with their 3's and 5's series d models. Would Honda/Acura ever undertake a alternative to the hybrid by integrating diesel fuel in to their engine configuration for maximum fuel efficiency?

TampaRLX-SH

Honda has a very successful I-4 green diesel in Europe's Accord (TSX here).

I drove one and was impressed with the torque and sweet engine sound (from a diesel!). And it got over 50 mpg highway.

The intent was to introduce it here (USA) in the TSX but they could only obtain emissions standards on the manual tranny model. So it was abandoned.

It was rumored to be offered in the CSX, Element and RDX.

Further, a green V6 diesel was in development (rumored for the Ridgeline, Pilot, MDX and RL) that would have given gobs of torque. Cancelled.

No V8s,,,,no US diesels. The options are narrowing.

*sigh*

neuronbob

At least the J35 and J37 engines are bulletproof, so even if they are used in the next generation RL, they will be reliable. Mayhap cylinder deactivation ala the Pilot will bow in the RL to improve gas mileage?

I don't see Honda using a turbo in this engine, either....I see a future of a J37 base and J35 + electric? Who knows, we'll find out next year sometime.

robarsan

This would be a design I could live with on the 20?? RL

I believe this is slated for the NSX though

TampaRLX-SH

^^^

I have seen that rendering before and it is very nice, IMHO.


What catches my eye is the general wide low shape of the front end view looks very RL to me.

Imagine your avatar picture rotated to the same angle and superimposed onto this sketch, and see the similar flow, angles and lines.

Now if Acura Design Studio can just manage some details with flowing lines, integration of body panels and a corporate signature feature that has a sophisticated identity over glare, I would be very fine without a V8 for my next RL.

SpicyMikey

Yep, that front looks nice and I love low slung body styles like that. Unfortunately, no doubt some homgrown rendering, but I wish Acura would design something like that.

Aman

Honestly, Honda has been very successful with just two basic engines: The J-series and the K-series engines. If they could continue to upgrade their engines and keep them bulletproof (stronger trannys would help as well) then I think that they'll be fine. Honda has strong reliability and durability ratings, and IMO maintaining that should be their priority. Then comes the quality and innovation. i think maintaining that would be the key to Honda's success, instead of going in new directions and possibly flopping.

neuronbob

Me like that design.

I hope our next RL, which I hope to be my next car, will have a kickass exterior design.

BigKat103

I like the new Avi there Robert! About time we see that V. Saw a black one on the road today. Looked good.

TampaRLX-SH

I'm not buying it. Especially with the Avatar change. You are under the spell of torque.

We have lost the real Bob. This is merely the alien impostor.

neuronbob

Torque......torque......torque....must have more.....


But an electric engine connected to a J35 should do the trick for Acura if they are serious about this hybrid stuff AND adding torque. I'm really serious when I say I've given up on V8/RWD for Acura, but hybrids might really work out for them.

Rhlieu

^^^

I concur with Mike! The avatar change is a unmistakable pledge of allegiance to Cadillac...there is no turning back now boss!

My question is: When is your first born scheduled to report for duty at caddy assembly plant?

Blazing GT

I could live with SH-AWD.

just need more power

neuronbob

Oh, wait...

I changed the avatar because I like the look of the grille. It's not TOO blingy....and that bulge in the hood is so subtle, yet sinister....Acura design needs to take a look at an exterior design that DOES work. That's what I want out of the next RL. I. Want. Badass.....with some subtlety.